80% of Voters Gave This a Rating of 8 or Higher?? How is that possible? - Mononoke-hime (1997) Discussion

[–] tobyrclark 13 years ago

"While this movie wasn't awful. It was by no stretch "great" or "excellent". "

Any particular reason why you think this?

"Anime films have an unfair advantage on IMDB, as only Anime fans WATCH anime films, so they only get rated by... anime fans."

Even if this was true (because there's no way that anyone would watch it because it's a fantasy adventure with excellent writing and characterisation and spectacular imagery that just happens to be animated) I fail to see how this puts them at any more of an advantage than other genre films. It, along with every other film on the site, is going to get rated based on how well it lives up to what people want from it.

"I'm going through the IMDB Top 250 (the ones I haven't watched), and I have about 50 left. But the fact that this is rated higher than ALL ABOUT EVE (the fact that this movie is on here AT ALL) just annoys me."

a) they have exactly the same rating, 8.3 and b) All About Eve is 25 slots higher for some reason. What are you reading?

I have no problem with it being at 109.

The Angels Have the Phone Box

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[–] ferraritr 13 years ago

All i hear is 'blah blah anime is bad and not as good as live action blah blah'
Also, "as only Anime fans watch anime films" implies that you haven't seen this or any anime, so you have no right to judge? Of course, if you've watched it (and you're obviously not an 'anime fan'), then you have contradicted yourself. Sorry, theres nothing in your post that is anything other than unbacked opinion, which means you fail.

p.s. using caps lock makes you look like a moron (though I guess its okay, since you obviously are)

Stupidity isn't a virus...but it sure is spreading like one.

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[–] WELCOMEtoCANDYLAND 13 years ago

Congratulations - you seem to be a scholar when it comes to ad hominem.
(there's no such thing as "unbacked opinion" - it's facts you're supposed to back up, not opinion. I watched the film, and I don't think it deserves to be in the IMDB top 250 - that gives me the right to say what I said. Not seeing the film and saying it's completely crap, is stupid - but I didn't do that.

Did I write my whole message in caps? No - just the movie titles so it stand out and makes things easier to read. Was my use of caps more ignorant, stupid and annoying that people who write their whole message in caps? Or all in lower case? With no punctuation? Or put "dee" instead of "the"?
Most people will stay away from films/genres they know they're not gonna like, whereas I would rather watch a bad movie than no movie, and will attempt to watch anything.
I watched NINJA SCROLLS a while ago, and liked that.

I was simply making an observation/suggestion, that of all the genres, anime is the one with the smallest fan base - and what I mean by that really is that people who don't like anime won't watch it, whereas as girls (whoever) who don't like horror movies will still watch a horror movie at a slumber party.
That's not to say anime is bad, I'm simply suggesting that this anime movie (I'll be watching the rest from the imdb 250 this week) is "unfairly" high, because the odds of someone who doesn't like anime, watching anime (whether they end up liking it or not), is much lower than any other genre - and then coming on here and voting on it).

If this means anything, I did rate this film a 6/10.
And I will say this - after years of working in a video store, anime fans are fiercely loyal, and that's no bad thing. I wish my movies had a following like that ;-)

Every Movie I Have Ever Seen
http://www.imdb.com/list/HDPiL7Xrwe4/

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[–] tobyrclark 13 years ago

Except, again, you're ignoring the possibility that someone who likes films in general but has no specific stance for or against Anime might watch Princess Mononoke and still like it for reasons like excellent writing and characterisation.

The Angels Have the Phone Box

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[–] WELCOMEtoCANDYLAND 13 years ago

Well that's me ;-) I love movies and watched it because it's a movie. Doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it just because it was anime. And from my experience (and this is something I don't agree with) that people who shy away from anime, don't like it regardless of whether the story is tremendous or not. Same reason they don't like WALL-E or UP or HOW TO TRAIN YOUR DRAGON - it's animated, therefore inferior.
I was mainly just surprised to see it that high on the top 250, is all.
By the way, I've got SPIRITED AWAY, GRAVE OF THE FIREFLIES, MY NEIGHBOR TORTORO and HOWL'S MOVING CASTLE in my watchlist. Which one should I watch next/which one is best? And even better, any anime movies that are as good/better than the ones on the top 250. Will check out PONYO, too.
Thankyou.

Every Movie I Have Ever Seen
http://www.imdb.com/list/HDPiL7Xrwe4/

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[–] New_Light 13 years ago

"its animated, therefore inferior"

wow, what a comment! and yes i know people like that too, my dad wouldnt even watch The Simpsons because...it was animated.

It really annoys me that way of thinking, that just because its animated means its just for children and has no real value. The amount of quality people are missing out on is huge. Pixar, Studio Ghibli, Disney and even Dreamworks all now produce films with multi-layers that can appeal to both younger and older audiences.

Also, anime isn't the most least watched genre, if genres even exist, i would like to point out to you that silent films, documentaries, film noir, musicals, biographies are all considered to be 'genres' of films, and i guess people that like those different genres would rate the movies they like higher, but its misleading to say that anime doesn't have a large following. Anime falls into a sub-category in the overall Animation genre, which has a massive following in western culture. Japan, America, UK, France and even Iran produces Animated films, as do many countries around the world.

Yes anime comes from Japan, and it has a HUGE following over there, box office receipts in Japan alone for Princess Mononoke was over 18 Billion yen which is about 225 Million dollars. It also has a huge following in general in western culture.

That is why the film is rated so highly, because grown ups and children can see that its not just an animation but has an amazing story and characters. The scenery is great, and the artwork that was put into it is amazing. That's what makes it special and deserved of the Top 250 spot.

In my opinion MORE animated films should be in the Top 250. Disney has a back catalogue that no one could compete with until the animes and mangas from Japan came out, Grave of the Fireflies is phenomenal, so is Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Ninja Scroll.. i could go on but i wont. My point is that these films are for both the younger and older generation, along with the series Neon Genesis Evangelion. They appeal to a wide audience and are loved because they are great films, even though they are animated.

Which film should you watch next?
easy - Grave of the Fireflies, if you arent moved by this film you have no soul.

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[–] WELCOMEtoCANDYLAND 13 years ago

Thankyou for your comments.

GRAVE OF THE FIREFLIES I have ordered online - I'll have it Monday and watch it them.
I watched SPIRITED AWAY and HOWL'S MOVING CASTLE yesterday. SPIRITED AWAY was pretty tremendous.

I'm cruising through the IMDB Top 250 so am watching films I wouldn't normally seek out (or have put off watching for years) - like the 5-hour versions of FANNY AND ALEXANDER and DAS BOOT ;-)

Every Movie I Have Ever Seen
http://www.imdb.com/list/HDPiL7Xrwe4/

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[–] Pierre_D 12 years ago

I saw the five hour version of Das Boot...not going to post spoilers but there was a stretch around the three to four hour mark I was just hoping for it to all end, dear lord.

Not an anime fan at all here but downloading this for viewing as it is in the top 250...

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[–] Tweekums 13 years ago

I don't think it is just anime fans who watch it; when dubbed versions of Studio Ghibli films are shown on television they tend to be described as 'animated fantasy featuring the voices of "insert names of western stars"' so plenty of viewers won't even realise they are watching a Japanese film.

I'm only going to say this once: stay out of Camberwick Green - Sam Tyler

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[–] khoa 13 years ago

Please don't feed the troll.

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[–] jktomas 13 years ago

Well, you're wrong, because when I watched Mononoke for the first time I wasn't anime fan (now I'm not an anime fan either, just a fan of Miyazaki films). I watched it just to see why people like these movies. And I also liked it a lot. That means not just that not only anime fans watch movies like that, but also that people who are not the fans also can enjoy them. Hell, it's one of my favorite movies and I'm not even an anime fan. Explain that!

"But the fact that this is rated higher than ALL ABOUT EVE (the fact that this movie is on here AT ALL) just annoys me."

What do you expect? Old black and white movies are only for black and white movie fans. No wonder All About Eve is so high though, afterall there are many black/white movie fans out there and people who aren't the fans can't rate it the way it deserves because they haven't watched it. Here, I'm using your logic and guess what - It doesn't make sense!

You know what annoys me? Narrow-minded people who can't accept the fact that other people like different movies. Not everyone's favorite film is All About Eve. Deal with it.

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[–] WELCOMEtoCANDYLAND 13 years ago

Neither is mine, you moron.
And saying that there is only people who like black and white films is ludicrous. That means you believe there are a large number of people who stopped watching most films are 1948. You know who those people are? People that died in 1949.
And if you bothered to read the entire thread, you wouldn't go off spouting your "wisdom" at me.
And no, I'm sorry, I can't explain why you are such an enigma. It must be amazing for you.

But I'm glad your knowledge of film stretches so far that you know ALL ABOUT EVE is black and white. Must have taken you a long time to spell it out phonetically and look up its imdb page.

Every Movie I Have Ever Seen
http://www.imdb.com/list/HDPiL7Xrwe4/

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[–] jktomas 13 years ago

I didn't say that there are people who watch ONLY b/w movies. You made that up by yourself. All I said was that there are b/w movie fans who vote higher for All About Eve because they are b/w film fans and there are also people who are not fans of b/w movies and they can't vote lower, because they haven't seen the film. It's not my genuine opinion of course. I just rephrased your original post (basicly changed word anime into black and white film) for you to understand how stupid your logic is. Since you didn't get it, I don't even see a point to talk to you anymore. But there's one more thing:

"But I'm glad your knowledge of film stretches so far that you know ALL ABOUT EVE is black and white."

It's as much as you know about anime.
You won't believe it, but there are actually many people who enjoy both animes AND black/white movies AND old american films AND old japanese films AND westerns etc. By saying that only anime fans watch Mononoke you just revealed your narrow-mindness.
And anyway, if you are not an anime fan, why did you watch Mononoke? And you rated the movie too. That means that nothing that you said in your original post make any sense at all. Nice job.

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[–] WELCOMEtoCANDYLAND 13 years ago

I watch everything, mate. Look at my lists.
I wanted to see every film on the IMDb Top 250.

Where did I say that PRINCESS MONONOKE was *beep* that propelled you to come on here and spew venom at me?
I was just asking a question.

And why are people on the internet so stupid that when someone makes a generalization - that's exactly what it is?! Just because ONE person is different from what's mentioned, doesn't mean that a large group of people do.
I'm sure there are thousands of people in the world that have MEET THE SPARTANS as their favorite movie. But when someone says "nobody likes MEET THE SPARTANS", people understand what they're saying, that they're making a generalization.
There are exceptions to every rule.

I see any movie I can, because I'd rather watch a *beep* movie than no movie at all.

From MY experience working in a video store, anime fans will RARELY watch anything that isn't anime - ('less it's animated or live action but based on a Japanese comic), and people that never watch anime, avoid it and would never watch it.
Which is why I posited the suggestion that of all the genres, anime is the most exclusive, where there's less chance of narrow-minded anti-anime fans voting, hence why its rating is where it is.

Yeah, I gave MONONOKE a 6/10. I didn't hate it. I've also watched SPIRITED AWAY, HOWL'S MOVING CASTLE, MY NEIGHBOR TOTORO in the last week, too, and liked them.

So just read a thread properly first before you come on typing through your tears. This thread's been dead for over a week - stop wasting my time with comments that aren't going to help me make future suggestions on which anime's to watch.

Every Movie I Have Ever Seen
http://www.imdb.com/list/HDPiL7Xrwe4/

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[–] jktomas 13 years ago

"I wanted to see every film on the IMDb Top 250."; "I see any movie I can"

There are millions of people just like you. I also wanted to see every film on IMDB 250, that's how I stumbled upon Monononononoke. Huge amount of people who vote on this site does the exact same thing. That's why I think it's wrong to say that only anime fans rate this film high.

"From MY experience working in a video store, anime fans will RARELY watch anything that isn't anime - ('less it's animated or live action but based on a Japanese comic), "

Well, it's YOUR personal experience. MY personal experience is a bit different. I know some guys who are hardcore anime fans, they watch all kinds of anime tv shows and movies even I don't know anything about. But they also watch any other stuff too like normal people. We're even watching classic films together sometimes.
Sure, it's just a couple of people. Maybe other anime fans are just as you described them. But here's how you can find it out for sure. You see many users on this board, right? Try to find out what are the other movies they like besides Mononoke. I bet they aren't 100% animes.

"and people that never watch anime, avoid it and would never watch it."

That's true. But it doesn't count for IMDB voters, because most of them are movie goers and try to see every high rated movie just like me or you.

And when you really think about it, why would every fan of anime like Monononoke? Not every single one of them thinks the same, you know. Even if you are right and only anime fans vote for this movie, then it still must be a pretty damn good film that so many anime fans love it so much.

"I was just asking a question."

Here's an advice. Don't you make a post that says "I don't like that movie. How could everyone be so stupid?" ever again. Especially in the board of a movie you are bashing. You won't find a) an answer b) people who agrees with you. That's coming from a guy who did this several times (in Dawn of the Dead remake and Casino Royale boards). But you didn't come here for an actual answer, did you?
If you really want an answer, I have a suggestion - go to the Film General board and make a post like this. The public there is much more objective.

And you also might want to delete this whole topic, because I can't see anything useful for you or for any of the fans of this movie here.
Good day.

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[–] WELCOMEtoCANDYLAND 13 years ago

I would love for you to find for me where I said "I don't like that movie. How could everyone be so stupid?"

And don't threaten me with "don't do it ever again".

You think only people who like the movie, come onto the imdb page/board?

You waste my time. Congratulations - you just made my ignore list. A very exclusive list.

Every Movie I Have Ever Seen
http://www.imdb.com/list/HDPiL7Xrwe4/

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[–] jktomas 13 years ago

"This film should not be anywhere near this high on the Top 250 - actually, it shouldn't be anywhere near the top 250. the fact that this movie is on here AT ALL) just annoys me." - I don't like that movie.

"80% of Voters Gave This a Rating of 8 or Higher?? How is that possible?" - How could everyone be so stupid?

"You think only people who like the movie, come onto the imdb page/board?"

Pretty much so. How many positive replies of this post did you get? Zero. What could that mean?

It's nice to be on someone's ignore list by the way.

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[–] tobyrclark 13 years ago

"Which is why I posited the suggestion that of all the genres, anime is the most exclusive, where there's less chance of narrow-minded anti-anime fans voting, hence why its rating is where it is."

Anime is not a genre, it is a medium. Princess Mononoke is a mix of genres - action, adventure, fantasy, romance, horror - hence, it's going to have a much wider appeal than you seem to give it credit for.

The Angels Have the Phone Box

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[–] WELCOMEtoCANDYLAND 13 years ago

Film is medium - anime is a genre inside that medium.
I call it a genre in as much as that of all the video stores or retail stores I've been in, they have anime as its own "genre" in rental stores, its own section in retail stores, is what I mean by that ;-)
I've never seen, say, NINJA SCROLLS or SPIRITED AWAY in the thriller or action sections of those places - I've only ever seen them in their own special anime section. And by that, I don't mean to diminish their quality, it's just how I've see them.
Same as "classics" often have their own section as opposed to being displayed within Drama or War or Comedy.

Every Movie I Have Ever Seen
http://www.imdb.com/list/HDPiL7Xrwe4/

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[–] tobyrclark 13 years ago

"Film is medium - anime is a genre inside that medium. "

OK, then it's a sub-medium of film - calling it a genre makes as much sense as saying that all live-action films are one genre, regardless of story.

"I call it a genre in as much as that of all the video stores or retail stores I've been in, they have anime as its own "genre" in rental stores, its own section in retail stores, is what I mean by that"

Point taken, most of the shops I go to are the same. That said, Princess Mononoke is a great example of how ill-advised this practice is, given that it's going to be put two boxes away from Ponyo on the Cliff By the Sea, a movie that it's several worlds apart from.

http://notalwaysright.com/kids-movies-cost-an-arm-and-a-leg

The Angels Have the Phone Box

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[–] WELCOMEtoCANDYLAND 13 years ago

Haha, "what's a dismem-peppermint?" ;-)

I do believe that there should be a Children's section in stores - as they fit better there than say in Comedy.

Having worked in a video store, it irks me (and I agree with you), that the broader the given genres are, the better.
I convinced my manager one day to let me break down some of the specific genres we had and break them into larger genres. Like taking away the adventure section and placing it in Action; taking down Science Fiction and putting them in action or thriller.
(I ended up keeping the Sci/Fi section (albeit, maybe 15 titles) just off from the action section, consisting of 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY, STAR WARS, STAR TREK - that's about it).
As a result, the large amount of those movies that hadn't been rented in months - some, years - started renting because they were now in "respected" genres.
"Only geeks watch science fiction/manga" blah blah. Not that the film's in Action, it's become acceptable, and they'll give it a go.
However the anime section stayed as it was, by itself (certainly not hidden away - it was actually the first shelf nearest the entrance), as people just aren't as tolerant towards... well, animation in general; but anime specifically. Which is a shame, because they're certainly not a 'lesser art'.
I should also say, it's not like I worked in a burrow of New York, either - it was an average-sized city about 40 miles south of Brisbane - they're not the most "arty" type people, either.
Branching certain anime into the wider, more well-known genres would probably work better in Melbourne, where people are more open to how a story is told - whether it be arthouse, western animation or Japanese animation.

Every Movie I Have Ever Seen
http://www.imdb.com/list/HDPiL7Xrwe4/

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[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Chomper66 12 years ago

Actually, what you said makes perfect sense. I love Princess Mononoke as well as old black and white films, but both 'genres' have an obvious advantage on IMDb, as a large portion of the the viewers are already fans of that type of movie.

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[–] Gibson-LP 13 years ago

"Anime films have an unfair advantage on IMDB, as only Anime fans WATCH anime films, so they only get rated by... anime fans. It might be one of the best anime films ever made, but it's nothing compared to alot of live-action films.
If only Michael Bay fans voted on Michael Bay films, TRANSFORMERS would be an 8.5/10, too."

Can I just say that that is the stupidest statement I have ever heard.

No really it is.

Myself personally, I'm not a fan of anima, but I love this film. I quite like Ghilbi. Don't like almost any other anima. so obviously not all people who like this film are anima fans.

I also want to bring up the fact that Spirited Away another Ghilbi film won the academy award for best animated film over all possible english language films of that year, and is considered buy pretty much every one who has any vallid opinion on film to be somewhere in the top 10 international films of all time.

All that said I can't be bothered feeding the trolls anymore.

"He said I looked like Boris Karloff"

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[–] jtf1986 12 years ago

Dude, its a Miyazaki film. People will watch it even if they won't watch the typical anime. Do you really think that the vast majority of the 87,000+ voters for the film are just hardcore anime fans? How about the 145,000 + Spirited Away voters?

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[–] blescha 12 years ago

it certainly deserves to be on the top 250 more than about 200 other movies currently on the top 250

inception, lol.. only someone with the IQ of a chimp would find that movie great.. or worth watching, even

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[–] Miquel-Angel 12 years ago

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree.

"Anime films have an unfair advantage on IMDB, as only Anime fans WATCH anime films, so they only get rated by... anime fans."

That's false. I have seen different kinds of people watching anime films, not only otakus.

"It might be one of the best anime films ever made, but it's nothing compared to alot of live-action films."

No offence, but that's quite stupid. For example, Hotaru no haka is nothing compared to a lot of live-action films? I'm quite sure that a live-action film of Mononoke-hime would be worse by far. Just check Video Girl Ai or Dragon Ball.

"I'm going through the IMDB Top 250 (the ones I haven't watched), and I have about 50 left. But the fact that this is rated higher than ALL ABOUT EVE (the fact that this movie is on here AT ALL) just annoys me."

Well, there are better films than All About Eve that are not included in the IMDb Top 250. For example, Ugetsu monogatari. It's not a big deal.

My Favourite 250 Films: http://www.imdb.com/list/XqrpBbhmslg/

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