MovieChat Forums > Meet Joe Black (1998) Discussion > Last lines... and The Coffeeshop ( Majo...

Last lines... and The Coffeeshop ( Major Spoiler alert)


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I was perusing the forums and I noticed that some were confused with the return of Joe at the last scene, saying it was not logical...or made little sense.

Some mentioned it through off the ending. And I finally realized why the end has just maybe been misunderstood by some.

I will review a few pertinent conversations.

Death is at the party, and he has finally revealed himself to Susan. He then says something along the lines " You know who I am. Who am I?" the way he did with her father in the beginning.

She shows a genuine fear of Death, or an inability to deal with the information. She says "you're Joe" he says " you will always have the one you found at the coffeeshop."

Fast foreward, to when she sees her father go over the hill with Death. The she chases, Death comes over the hill... apparently confused. She and he talk, and you see a look of disappointment on her face. It's palpable!

He says that something she said " stayed with him" that she said in the coffeeshop. " You said, you liked me" She corrects him. " No...I said..." I like you so much."

It's clear he never had that conversation because it was not addressed to him. This is not Joe from the coffeeshop. This is Death Pretending.

She catches on... and starts smiling. he seems to allow his " goofy joe" mask drop. Notice Brad Pitt's mannerisms. In the beginning he is " goofy Joe from the coffeeshop." but once she catches on, that it is Death, his demeanor changes, he becomes more serious... " What will we do now?" "It'll come to us." is now in a different context. He is Immortal, and the ferrymen to the next place. She is human, mortal, and he promised her father he would let her live a full life.

Then comes " we know so little about each other.." to which he replies." But we've got time." Which is what Death and she told one another earlier... he WAS a party to that conversation. To re-enforce in everyone's mind that this is in fact Death.

I find this scene to be subtle, and textured. One of the reasons i love it so much. Most directors would have had instead the following.

Susan: " OMG it's YOU death, pretending to be Joe.... because you want to be in my life, but you know I fear you ..so wow...you're making believe!!!"

Death: Yes!!! But you figured it out... why are you so happy??? don't you want Joe??"


10 more minutes of unnecessary exposition for the slow viewers....

etc etc... I know I didn't see it after viewing 1, or 3...but after the 4th it just jumped at me, and I do appreciate this little tid bit, something that just surprises me.

Someone asked on another thread about the " I wish you could have known my father." And for sometime I thought this meant she thought he was still Joe from the coffeeshop. But someone else posed the possibility that even though Death's relationship with her father was tempestuous, he never got to ' know" him for the Kind , loving, caring man he was...as both his daughters did. Once I thought about it, it all made perfect sense.

This ending is not what some think it is...it is not "Joe from the coffeeshop" returning...or even " some combination of both." It's Death.

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No, the ending is not what you think it is. You are reading way to far into it.

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Exactly. Too much thinking in that type of ending. If Death was just gonna come back and "pretend" with Susan, then why did they show his slow realization that Susan really didn't have any idea who he was when they speak before the IRS/Drew scene. She's been thinking he was Coffee Shop Guy the whole movie. She is horrified that he's not, but she doesn't really understand what he is.
Also, when everything is said and done and Death is waiting for Bill, he has tears in his eyes because he is leaving and won't be coming back. He loves Susan, and wants her to be happy. So he is going to give her the coffee shop guy. And he told her that, "you'll always have what you had at the coffee shop..." It's why he asks for peanut butter from the waiter; because he isn't going to be around to experience it ever again. His "holiday" is over and he's going back to being death and Susan is getting coffee shop guy back.

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Been reading both sides of this ending. But this one is the easiest for me. Besides the lady in the hospital told him how messed up it would be for Death to be in love.



Knot2nite

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Not to mention that by the very end, Death seems to be a better person, so to speak. His deal with William was that he would let him stay alive while he remained a human. It was time to bring their arrangement to and end, so it would have been shady of him to make William die and yet for him to continue as Joe.

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Joe Death leaves after the party and it's Joe Coffeeshop that appears.
Remember in the hospital the Jamaican lady tells Joe
"So take that nice picture you got in your head home with you."
That's when Joe D realizes it's time for him to leave while everything is good for him.
The next scene he tells Bill they're leaving after the party "tomorrow night".
The Jamaican lady is the only one that truly understands what is going on and that he's messing up others lives by being here. Alas, messed up Joe Coffeeshop & Susan's inevitable future.
It's Joe Coffeeshop at the end

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I think you're wrong but I absolutely love your theory and the thoughtfulness of it. It's why I read imdb!

Amy: I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!

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I 2nd this reply! :) I also loved your take, but feel it's much too deep, but definitely 'could' be adapted if done again.

TheClan

"He has the most beautiful skin in captivity."

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You have a very intuitive and creative mind! But, I also think it's too deep. I loved this movie, as well. I can see the picture you painted pretty clear, but the replies above here point out a few things. As it is a slight take on 'Death Takes a Holiday', all hoidays must end.

You should write screenplays. :) Nice take on the movie.


TheClan

"He has the most beautiful skin in captivity."

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You made every point very clearly I never thought this way about the movie after watching it 3-4 times... I believe both endings can be adapted... its an open ended movie...

Well... brilliant synopsis bro :)

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Th OP is wrong, of course.

He theorizes: It's clear he never had that conversation because it was not addressed to him."

that makes no sense. They are both referencing the actual conversation that happened at the coffee shop, the same conversation that she and Joe discuss near the end.

Also:

When "coffee shop guy" walks up to her at the end, , he says he didn't know if he'd ever see her again. - meaning after the coffee shop. It's clear he has no knowledge of her in-between.

Then she says: "I wish you could have known my father"
and he replys: "Me too."



Case closed.

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I, too, think the OP did a good analysis but got it wrong.

Death loved Susan and presented her with a parting gift; he gave her what he promised her at the party...the affable, charming and honest coffee shop guy. Death selfishly took him from Susan on a whim. But, in the end, he understands love and gives him back to her at the end of his "journey."

The more I see the movie, the more I am touched by this idea: there was no need for death as a person... All that was needed was the awareness of death's real presence in one's life. William Parish feels he is going to die, and that awareness deepens him and all those close to him. It makes him look closely at his life, his life's work, and the members of his family and his relationship to them. And his deeper seriousness helps Susan look more closely at her life and the choices she has made and needs to make for her future.

In this sense, it's everyone's story... Life guided by a sense of finality... The knowledge that this is no dress rehearsal... that we sould strive to get it right now because it's our only chance to do so.

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You are exactly right! The OP is wrong with his theory...everything supports that she is getting the guy from the coffee shop - not death/Joe.

The first sentence of your explanation: "Death loved Susan and presented her with a parting gift; he gave her what he promised her at the party...the affable, charming and honest coffee shop guy." is dead on. That is EXACTLY what was happening at the end!

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Posted in the other thread where you stated this, but why not here too.

You are flat out wrong.

The script even says this.

It is the young man who comes back. He's confused and delirious, but it's him.

Death's sacrifice (Which shows that he truly loves Claire) is that he gives her the man back and leaves her to be with an actual PERSON instead of being selfish and lying to her.

It actually boggles my mind how this is not blatantly obvious to you... the last 40 minutes of the movie or something prepare you for this EXACT ending. For Joe to leave, and return her the man she met. (remember, it wasn't his time to begin with, he died accidentally).

They have conversations about it, and Death realizes he's being selfish and that it wouldn't work.

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I paid special attention to the beginning and end of the movie to see if I could make the same conclusion about Death. To me he wasn't Death. Even though he didn't state her exact words he knew enough to convince me he was not Death. And his statements about them having time fit the coffee shop guy. He wanted to get to know her. And his mannerisms had the same energy that coffee shop guy had. Joe/Death was reserved, as he was learning human behavior.

But I will admit that when Susan mentioned the coffee shop, Death could have used the info to his advantage. He could stay in human form and take souls like he did in the hospital. But Susan was afraid of his true self, so I think Death left and returned the coffee shop guy to her.

If we can save humanity, we become the caretakers of the world

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Actually, I think she's the one who misquotes HIM, and he corrects HER. At least that's how I remember it from yesterday.

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This is my all-time favorite movie and I've seen it 8 or 9 times. Your theory is totally wrong. As one poster further down answers you: "Death loved Susan and presented her with a parting gift; he gave her what he promised her at the party...the affable, charming and honest coffee shop guy."

That is exactly what happened - out of love, death gave Susan coffee shop guy.

Death came to finally and fully understand William Parrish...which is the main reason he decides to bow out. For Death to go with Susan in the end would have been a HUGE betrayal of her father - he had way too much respect for him in the end to do that to him (or to her).

He also demonstrated in his dealings with the old Jamaican woman that he was basically a good guy - someone who ultimately wouldn't do the selfish thing of taking Susan himself.

'Sorry, but you are just wrong on this one!

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You have SO misread the ending of this movie, you shouldn't be allowed to ever watch it again. Death is laughing at you.

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Personally, I think the ending was deliberately ambiguous, you take away the ending you want. I've watched it twice, the first time I absolutely thought it was coffee guy, the second time, I thought it was Death. I prefer that ending. Each to their own. Can't we stop over-analyzing the ending and just choose whichever we prefer?



His penis got diseases From a Chumash tribe

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You can certainly choose to insert or delete anything in the film you like to suit your own taste.

But as written, it's clear that it's not Death but coffee shop guy. It you still think it's Death, now do you square it with this dialog:

Susan Parrish: I wish you could have known my father.
Joe Black: So do I.

Is Death lying to her? I don't think so. Joe (now coffee shop guy) has never met her father.

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