MovieChat Forums > Ma vie en rose (1997) Discussion > i cried so hard

i cried so hard

posted 20 years ago by oxobabychickxox
37 replies | jump to latest

georges du fresne was incredible. i cried so hard when i watched it. you could tell that everyone had killed his spirit near the end, after his hair was cut. the part that stuck with me the most was the part when the little boy was leaving to find some peace and quiet, and his mother sneered at him and asked him why. he told her that it was too noisy, and she grimly said "it's not our fault we had to move". the boy stared for a minute, and then nodded slightly and left. that part stung the most, especially since he was vulnerable without his hair, and after the constant attacks from his mother.

[–] EllesKitchen 20 years ago

I know!! When Ludo was forced into having his hair cut, I too cried.
This film was amazing and the acting was superb. I felt so bad for Ludovic the way his mother and father approached the whole subject. It started off that you thought his mother may come to terms with it far better that his father but she too turned on him quite badly. What really got me was when he ran to his elder sister and she hugged him through the fence. I love this film.

[–] oxobabychickxox 19 years ago

oh yes, i bawled like no other. i've never cried that hard in my life.

[–] donatj 19 years ago

I was redcomended this movie by a friend, and I wasn't sure what to think at first with the topic and all, but I found it to be a truly touching film, and though my somwhat tough vanier, since I was alone, I too did cry for poor ludvig

[–] Analog_Rhombus 19 years ago

I endured this film because it came highly recommended. Rarely has a film so egregiously disappointed me based on the glowing reviews of those I know who sang its praises. Ultimately, I thought it to be a heinous transposition of Berliner's personal fantasy world into the words and life of a child, barely above kindergarten age.
Before cries of "homophobe!" or, "trans-sexual basher!" are leveled upon me, please understand that I am highly sympathetic to the strife and sacrifice many homosexuals and trans-gender persons endure throughout their lives. I also know that sexual confusion is a large part of growing up for many young people afraid to confront their true sexuality when they begin to feel very different and ostrocized from their peers. But a 7-year-old boy? I simply could not overcome the inherrent absurdity of Ludovic, a 7-year-old boy who dreams of having his period and who longs to marry and passionately kiss another young boy upon completion of said marriage.
Indeed, everyone is different, of this there can be no doubt. However, for the sake of verisimilitude (please remember this is a fictional story), how many "straight" 7-year-old boys even long to passionately kiss little girls?
The frank and disturbing sexuality of the gay little nymph as portrayed in Ludovic smacks of Berliner's bizarre, twisted fantasy; a film in which he may excuse, exorcise, and at the same time realize his lurid demons by using a VERY pre-teen child as his mouthpiece as opposed to a lucid, cognizant, world-weary adult trans-sexual.
Perhaps Berliner himself knew whole-heartedly that he was gay and wanted to express such very, very openly when he was 7, but of every gay friend I've since discussed this film with since watching it, none could relate a common experience as presented in "Ma Vie en Rose."
Again, a dastardly misuse of the gift of cinema for a film-maker to indulge himself and soak in the trappings of self-aggrandizing pre-teen homosexuality.
Poor, poor, poor.

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[–] brwndot 19 years ago

"I also know that sexual confusion is a large part of growing up for many young people afraid to confront their true sexuality when they begin to feel very different and ostrocized from their peers. But a 7-year-old boy? I simply could not overcome the inherrent absurdity of Ludovic, a 7-year-old boy who dreams of having his period and who longs to marry and passionately kiss another young boy upon completion of said marriage. "

Believe me, this is not out of the question. It's unfortunate that you believe it is, but children are well aware of how different they are at a young age. The fact that we live in a world largely geared towards heterosexuals can make differences stand out at an earlier age than you might imagine. Bottom line is, don't underestimate the introspective wonderings of young children, even when it comes to sexuality/gender identity.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] cokihara 19 years ago

First off, homosexuality and transgenderism are not interchangeable. Ludovic was not gay, s/he was transgendered - a girl trapped in a boy's body. It is not implausible that a 7-year old would harbor sex-atypical feelings of femininity even at so young an age. Ludovic's wish to marry the boy next door (so to speak) and menstruate were not based in sexual desire, they were an expression of the basic human desire to be what s/he was meant to be. Self awareness of this "Otherness" is not uncommon even in pre-pubescent children as it is more of an identity issue rather than a sexual issue at this stage in child development. Therefore, this film is hardly a "bizarre, twisted fantasy" – it is a poignant, touching story.

[–] Analog_Rhombus 19 years ago

Alright, I appreciate the fact that, though we obviously have a fundamental disconnect in terms of our views on this movie, you refrained from attacking me for expressing my views. I appreciate the eloquence with which you stated your views on my opinions rather than wholesale blasting me or labelling me as a hateful or anti-gay/trans person. You are very classy.
However, in response to your response, whether Ludo was a sexually confused trans-gender or not, I must say that I find the notion of a young child, trans-or not, wanting to kiss another little boy in the way that men traditionally kiss women upon completion of a matrimonial ceremony to be inherently homosexual in nature. Men kissing each other on the cheek as a sign of solidarity/trust/friendship? Completely normal and decidedly not gay in my book. But the type of kiss shared by 2 persons after a wedding? When 2 males are involved, it simply strikes me as overtly gay. That is simply my stance on it, but I think it's a rather fair one.
Once again, though, I appreciate your aplomb and tact in discussing this with me. You are obviously a highly sentient person and one who I'd enjoy debating/discussing films with at any time.

-Analog_Rhombus

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[–] lekatzen 19 years ago

The idea that Ludo wanted to kiss another boy in my opinion is reflective of what he percieves are his duty or wants as a female, or how he should, or rather does! feel as a little girl.

As a once little girl myself ,I dreamed of kissing the next door neighbor, the prince charming, these were not at all "sexual feelings"...and yes at 7 and at 8 and perhaps even at 6 years old...

I think the fundamental disconnect is in regards to understanding transgendered people as opposed to what you think is "homosexual".
For all we know Ludo grew up hit puberty, was attracted to women, still changed his gender and ended up living with a woman. It happens more often than you think...would you then call him a homosexual?

I thought the film portrayed beautifuly, and yes in a non-sexual way, the difficulties of growing up feeling you should have been born differently.

[–] gentle_gamer 18 years ago

Err... I'm confused.
A) if a person wants to kiss another person imitating marriage, why does gender matter? Are you saying that a boy can't want to marry another boy at that age? I mean... don't most kids dream of marrying someone someday?
B) If Ludo is transgendered, then she is a girl, and the desire to kiss the little boy is completely heterosexual.

-Joy
"People don't want to be fixed. They want to be loved."

[–] dachshundweaver 12 years ago

Two males are not involved. A little girl and a little boy are involved.

You keep protesting that you're hip to trans issues. If so, how does this escape you?

I also don't get why people use the phrase "gender confused" to refer to trans people. No one is confused here. Ludo knows exactly what gender she is.

[–] coronado_g 17 years ago

I am female and guess what...I dreamed of kissing another girl when I was 8 years old! Yes, kids can AND DO have feelings like this.

[–] TracesOfLove 19 years ago

"The frank and disturbing sexuality of the gay little nymph as portrayed in Ludovic smacks of Berliner's bizarre, twisted fantasy; a film in which he may excuse, exorcise, and at the same time realize his lurid demons by using a VERY pre-teen child as his mouthpiece as opposed to a lucid, cognizant, world-weary adult trans-sexual.
Perhaps Berliner himself knew whole-heartedly that he was gay and wanted to express such very, very openly when he was 7, but of every gay friend I've since discussed this film with since watching it, none could relate a common experience as presented in "Ma Vie en Rose." Again, a dastardly misuse of the gift of cinema for a film-maker to indulge himself and soak in the trappings of self-aggrandizing pre-teen homosexuality.
Poor, poor, poor."

My take on the movie was more about how the adults were behaving. Not the child's behavior. Maybe the kid is gay or trans but maybe not. Remember he's only seven! When I was a little girl I wanted to be a boy and acted just like that kid. I'm not gay now and while I may have experimented when I was in college, once I tried it out it got old really fast! Although I do think I may still suffer from penis envy. ; ) Whether the Director is gay or not is irrelevant to me, because I form my own meaning to a film I view whether the director agrees with me or not. To me this film was trying to show that society especially a suburban society goes against anything that strays from the norm. Ludivic knows who what he likes and what he wants and dances to the beat of his OWN drum. A big no-no in our society particularly in the suburbs. The fact that the kid exhibited homosexual tendencies that were affecting other neighborhood kids who may actually be gay, like the boss's kid is what really blew the lid off! Ludivic is a weird little boy our society gay or not, and if he were a girl like the tomboy at the end his sexuality would have seemed much more ambiguous. And to me that was one of the questions the film was presenting to us. I thought one scene was really telling when we see legs dancing once again to that really gay song and we expect it to be Ludivic, but instead it is his father.

I would also like to address the people who thought that the Ludivic's parents were bad. I thought they were pretty good parents! I don't think my parents could have handled their crisis better than they did. I think the point of showing the mother act so cruelly towards Ludivic was to show how we hurt our own children with just a look or phrase without even realizing it. And cutting Ludivic's hair showed the mother's desperate and irrational attempt to conform. Which is sadly, something that we all tend to eventually succumb to.

If I had a nickel for every cigarette your mom smoked, I'd be dead.

[–] missargentina 19 years ago

"Perhaps Berliner himself knew whole-heartedly that he was gay and wanted to express such very, very openly when he was 7, but of every gay friend I've since discussed this film with since watching it, none could relate a common experience"

Maybe because being gay is not the issue here. Ludovic felt like he was born the wrong gender. His mind doesn't match his body. He wants his period because he thinks that is what makes you a woman. He doesn't understand the biology of it. He also dreams about getting married and kissing a boy, just like the girl from his favorite TV program. This does not seem unrealistic or disturbing to me.
Why do you assume that this is some fantasy of the director's? I don't know anything about the man but I think you are being unfair with your accusations.

[–] Analog_Rhombus 19 years ago

All I might say in reply that will not simply rehash the notions and opinions already put forth by myself is this: before you decide I'm levelling unfair accusations, perhaps you yourself ought to learn a thing or two "about the man." I made specific comments re: the director because I am familiar with his cinematic acumen, as well as his personal situation. I was not simply guessing, if that's the impression you came away with.
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[–] boston2 18 years ago

Re: "The frank and disturbing sexuality of the gay little nymph as portrayed in Ludovic....Poor, poor, poor."

I knew when I was young that I was different, although I didn't necessarily know why or in what way yet. For some people recognizing their "difference" - what sets them apart from heterosexual and/or cisgendered (i.e., non-transgender) people - comes early as kids, or it comes in adolescence, early adulthood, or middle-age. There were parts in this film that felt like they screamed "me! yes," something I could identify with.

Although I was not born a boy who would come out as a girl, I identify as genderqueer (another term is "bi-gender," which can be grouped under the broader umbrella term "transgender" but is not to be confused with transsexuality, people who wish to transition to the sex that feels most natural to them). I am not MTF or FTM, but something different: I like to express my gender (genders?) in a unique way.

Ludovic's playing dress-up reminds me of playing dress-up myself (as a girl or a boy, with make-up and/or men's/women's clothes & accessories). From an early age, I had dreams in which I was male (i.e., playing Peter Pan or Mario from Mario Bros, the Nintendo Game), female, or neither/both. I switched around, and it's what felt natural to me. It took me quite a journey to get to this point of self-realization, when in retrospect I realized what certain things in my childhood meant and what events/dreams/desires/behaviors/preferences/past-times indicated about my identity.

Your opinion is valid, but so are the opinions of those who identify as transgender or genderqueer and are speaking in this post from their personal experiences. Experiential knowledge is worth recognizing as well as the theoretical.

[–] h1cheng 16 years ago

little kids know that they are gay, this is coming from gay people who've told me. hope that helps.

[–] pynkpanther 15 years ago

every child is curious about ALL people. what the end up liking - who knows and who can predict?
i thought ludo's family ROCKED - given the circumstances, it could have been extremely tough for him. when they all crashed the party with ludo in a skirt, that is something i would bet my life on that 99% of you and/or your family (extended and immediate) would never do.

his mother hating what his situation did to their existence is real - and a hell of a lot milder than what he is to receive by the world once he grows up. better he see frustration from love than from hate.

[–] cinemajunky 14 years ago

David Sedaris is an American writer who's homosexual and tells of going to a sleepover and feeling very awkward and nervous about the prospect of being alone with boys his age at approximately 10 years old. If he could figure out his attractions at that age, I don't think it's impossible for a 7 year old.

__________________________________
I ain't your friend, palooka.

[–] dachshundweaver 12 years ago

GAY AND TRANS ARE NOT THE SAME THING. Why does nobody get this?

"Gay little nymph"? Are you *beep* serious? Ludo was a straight girl. Yes, it's true, straight boys don't long to kiss little girls at age 7. But straight girls often long to kiss little boys that young.

[–] dachshundweaver 12 years ago

I don't understand your horror at kids being trans. You seem to think that only adults can be trans. This makes no sense. You knew what gender you were as a child, right? So do trans kids.

[–] kaptain_kamikaze 19 years ago

It is a great movie that generates a huge range of emotions. It amazed me the first time I saw it.

As for the people claiming that 7 was too young, I think that the age made a point. He was too young to know about sex and sexuialty, which made it a true belief, a true feeling for him, rather than something he'd heard about and chosen to adopt. Also, his naiveity helped the message of the film. It wasn't sexual - it was a true feeling for him.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] istra 19 years ago

I really really liked the film, made me cry and laugh. The Ludo's mum find's him in the freezer is the sadest and most disturbing moment of the film. I identified with that situation (not because of the freezer) but because when one is very young and very stressed out, one doesn't see the way out.I found this film to be very profound.
I also loved Ludo's acting.

[–] EPLakeLA 19 years ago

The saddest lines for me are "Give us a *beep* BREAK!" Hearing his own mother say that, especially as a young boy, must hurt. Also, my heart broke when Ludovic cries into his sister's arms and says "Tell me I won't go to hell!"

THE DOVE OF AMERICA

Mr. Cellophane shoulda been my name, Mr. Cellophane....

[–] ookvoo 19 years ago

I think that the actors in this film did an excellent job (especially the children, handling such a...different subject). I never actually cried but there were parts that brought tears to my eyes.

"I would leave the cinema just before the next to last song and the film would just go on forever" -Bjork, "Dancer in the Dark"

[–] laurenashlan 19 years ago

I actually just finished watching this movie and I was very impressed, I Agree the innocence of the young boy was something not to be overlooked it made the story much more compelling. I couldn't help but cry especially when his hair was cut. I loved this movie!!!

[–] dirty_blonde21 18 years ago

Genre: Comedy / Drama (more)

doesn't that make anyone else a little angry? it defenetly shouldn't be comedy because it's so sad.

[–] boston2 18 years ago

Yeah, I'm not sure how well this classifies as a "comedy." Isn't calling it that somewhat belittling to the film's message about acceptence?

I suppose it could be viewed as "comedy" in the parts which are larger-than-life, highly fantasy-oriented and amusing in its childlike qualities (i.e., the scenes where Ludovic plays in a Barbie-like-world). However, I agree with you that it's more "drama" than "comedy."

Simply put, this movie hurts to watch: it IS sad, and it's difficult for some people to swallow. That makes it worth viewing and considering. (After all, how many films out there really question sex-as-gender rather than reinforce it?)

[–] val998 18 years ago

The "comedy" probably refers to the fact that the ending is happy (disputable). The first time I watched this I bawled my eyes out the entire time. I really liked how the psychiatrist didn't try to change Ludo, but rather was able to reassure him that, though his parents did not understand, what he was going through wasn't wrong. The only thing I didn't like was the ending. It didn't bring enough closure for me. I wanted to see him as an adult, wearing a dress and everyone being happy with it and accepting (now I know that is unrealistic, but it would have done a little to console me). Also, in response to whoever commented on Ludo wanting to "passionately kiss" some one. I really wouldn't put it that way. I think that his intentions were much less extreme. I thought that the fact that he wanted to kiss Jerome was more representative of what he felt represented a desire to find prince charming. We see that at the end of every fairy tale the get married and kiss. It was a very natural thing for Ludo to want to do.
I LOVED this movie!!!

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] ysfoxy 18 years ago

"The only thing I didn't like was the ending. It didn't bring enough closure for me."

I saw the movie yesterday and enjoyed it a lot! I think the ending should have been different though. It should have ended when the mom sees the ladder up against the billboard, leaving it up to the viewer to imagine what has happened to Ludovicus. This would have made for a much stronger and poignant ending.

[–] am_buglet_82 14 years ago

To those who are saying his parents were great, I can kind of understand what you are saying. A lot of other parents wouldn't be so patient (my parents sure wouldn't have been).

However I do think it was almost unforgivable that the mother blamed Ludo for the family being ostracized (it was the ostracizers' fault) and for telling him he's wrecking the family...and then sniping at him that "she's not the reason they're there (moved)".

And that was AFTER he tried to freeze himself! :(

I'm sorry, but you do NOT tell a 7 year old those kinds of things, they'll remember those words forever.

I'm glad the mother came around in the end, but geez...I really wish she hadn't talked to her little child that way.

-Amanda

"She will remember your heart when men are fairy tales in storybooks written by rabbits"

[–] patton98 14 years ago

I agree with you Amanda. Sooooo true :(

Everytime she was treating him that way it made me cry sooo much. Poor little girl, yes Ludo was indeed a girl. This film is too traumatic for me to watch so often anyway. It just shows how much ignorance and intolerance can produce so much evil. It's too sad and unfair.

[–] dachshundweaver 12 years ago

That's my reaction too. I found this movie hard to watch as a child and I would find it hard now. The parents' actions ARE unforgivable.

[–] dachshundweaver 12 years ago

Yeah, I mean, how is 7 too young? Everyone knows their gender at age 7. Gender identity is NOT sexuality.

[–] sugar_n_spice 12 years ago

I, too, teared up at a couple parts in the movie, namely when Ludovic was in the freezer and when her mother lashed out at her at Chris's birthday party. Heartbreaking.

One thing that I found quite intriguing about this movie was how I thought the family members (excluding the siblings) who would be least accepting of Ludovic's conviction, turned out to be the most accepting, and vice versa. At the housewarming party in the beginning, while they were all in the kitchen and the mother was wiping the lipstick off of Ludovic's mouth, for some reason I had thought that the Grandma would be the most disapproving. Of course, she turned out to be the most accepting of all her relatives, and she hated watching the misery Ludovic was going through.

The father reacted pretty much how I'd expect a father who loves his children, but still grew up "traditionally," to react. He was extremely frustrated, wondering why his son couldn't be "normal." However, he became much less censorious after he loses his job - he realized that the people of the neighborhood (who put obscene graffiti on his garage door) are not worth impressing - I believe he used the word "cons." I think it was also around this time that there's the shot of him dancing to that pop song, which was a great little scene.

What was really awful, though, was when the mother blamed Ludovic for the father losing his job, after the father's reassurance that this was not true: "C'est ta faute!" ("It is your fault!") Although I can understand her frustration - even understand why she cut Ludovic's hair, after she shouted that she had her period because of a slight stomach cramp - that line started making me really dislike her. After all, like another poster pointed out, this is after the mother had found Ludovic in a freezer, after she had been beaten up by boys in a gym locker. (I was terrified during that whole sequence.) Then there was that snide comment, something along the lines of "You're the reason we moved," and I couldn't believe those words had escaped her lips. (This was the same woman who kissed Albert in front of his wife to get back at him - I really thought she would've turned out differently.) And then the party... Her behavior was so terrible that I really didn't buy her "revelation," actually.

http://www.wordle.net/show/wrdl/5355253/Black_and_Blue