MovieChat Forums > Love and Death on Long Island (1998) Discussion > Audrey--POSSIBLE SPOILERS

Audrey--POSSIBLE SPOILERS

posted 10 years ago by zensixties
15 replies | jump to latest

I just saw this again after having seen it a long time ago. One thing I noticed was that Ronnie's girlfriend Audrey at the end seemed to have seen through Giles facade, since she said, "God, you're good", and said she's taking Ronnie away the following day.
Anyway, this was a well done original film; maybe the starting point for the script was, "why would anyone come to Long Island for a vacation", and materialized from there.

For who would bear the whips and scorns of Hollywood... (;-p)

[–] Quicksilver1900 10 years ago

It goes without saying that Audrey realised Giles was an obsessed fan, albeit an erudite and exotic one.

1. She noticed that he had no interest in accompanying her to the fashion shoot

2. She mentioned she had been speaking to their neighbour who had seen someone (Giles) hanging around before she 'accidentally' met him in the supermarket

3. She challenged Giles to phone his imaginary goddaughter in England

4. She put an end to Giles' intrusion into their lives by scheduling an impromptu trip to her parents' home.

All this before "God, you're good".

[–] zensixties 10 years ago

Quicksilver said,

It goes without saying that Audrey realised Giles was an obsessed fan, albeit an erudite and exotic one.

1. She noticed that he had no interest in accompanying her to the fashion shoot

He never let on at all that he was praying for rain, and Ronnie said the fashion shoots are boring, so why would he be particularly interested in any case.

2. She mentioned she had been speaking to their neighbour who had seen someone (Giles) hanging around before she 'accidentally' met him in the supermarket

This was when they had first met, and she definitely didn't at that point suspect Giles was the "creep" hanging around.

3. She challenged Giles to phone his imaginary goddaughter in England

This is when she does call his bluff, and then the gig is up.

4. She put an end to Giles' intrusion into their lives by scheduling an impromptu trip to her parents' home.

All this before "God, you're good".

This is the action she takes, but the scene is done is a subtle way, enough to miss.

However even with this we don't know exactly what she thought about him. I mean did she figure out that he came to Long Island from London only to see the man he loved, Ronnie? I doubt that, considering how unlikely it is.

For who would bear the whips and scorns of Hollywood... (;-p)

[–] Quicksilver1900 10 years ago

Just before Audrey challenges Giles to phone his goddaughter, she says that she has been talking to their neighbour about a lurker around the property. I think Audrey's conversation with the neighbour was linked with her challenge to Giles. It seems likely that the neighbour identified the lurker as Giles.

There are a number of shots of Audrey where she looks unhappy or skeptical watching Giles interact with Ronnie. It is becoming apparent to her that Giles is more interested in Ronnie than in her, despite his initial warmth toward her, eg, when he took her out to lunch. Her challenge to Giles was her way of proving her suspicions - not just that Giles was attracted to Ronnie but that his presence was based on a fabrication and the attraction originated well before they met, ie, Giles was a fan.

The scene at the baseball game was extremely well done. Audrey is deliberately crushing Giles' hopes and plans for an alliance with Ronnie. All her words, her facial expression, and her tone convey that, but not directly. Even "God, you're good" was not a direct confrontation.

[–] zensixties 10 years ago

Quicksilver said

Just before Audrey challenges Giles to phone his goddaughter, she says that she has been talking to their neighbour about a lurker around the property. I think Audrey's conversation with the neighbour was linked with her challenge to Giles. It seems likely that the neighbour identified the lurker as Giles.

Actually the scene is this: Ronnie asks Audrey, "where the heck were you?!" and Audrey says, "I was talking to the neighbor; is that okay?" so she seems irked at Ronnie, not Giles. However, yes, it's implied that they may have discussed the lurker mentioned previously. But considering Audrey bought originally that Giles "came to Chesterton because he smokes Chestertons", it would not be that unusual for a neighbor to see Giles walking around Chesterton prior to their initial meeting. The only incident that may be unexplainable is when Giles flags down the cab to follow Audrey, and the jogging neighbor sees it. But again how the neighbor interpreted that is anybody's guess.

There are a number of shots of Audrey where she looks unhappy or skeptical watching Giles interact with Ronnie. It is becoming apparent to her that Giles is more interested in Ronnie than in her, despite his initial warmth toward her, eg, when he took her out to lunch. Her challenge to Giles was her way of proving her suspicions - not just that Giles was attracted to Ronnie but that his presence was based on a fabrication and the attraction originated well before they met, ie, Giles was a fan.

Again I ask how she could possibly conclude that Giles was a fan, considering how unlikely it would be. Maybe she sensed the attraction, but Giles was not a fan, at least in the commonly understood sense. His goal was the Verlaine/Rimbaud relationship he mentions at the end.
I think you are right to a certain extent that Audrey surmised something, but it's a flaw of the film that this is left nebulous. On the other hand, the main impetus behind their meeting, the ruse of the Goddaughter is never mentioned until Audrey brings it up, so you're right that it's obvious to her that the Goddaughter was a ruse, since if there were a Goddaughter Giles would have leapt at the chance to have her talk to her favorite teen idol.

The scene at the baseball game was extremely well done. Audrey is deliberately crushing Giles' hopes and plans for an alliance with Ronnie. All her words, her facial expression, and her tone convey that, but not directly. Even "God, you're good" was not a direct confrontation.

Yes, I agree, and it's left a ambiguous as far as any cut and dry interpretation of the scene. Overall a well done film; probably the best of that year--not that there were others to compete with. At this point I should say that John Hurt is one of my favorite actors.

For who would bear the whips and scorns of Hollywood... (;-p)

[–] Quicksilver1900 10 years ago

I had another look at the scene where Audrey challenges Giles to phone his goddaughter. She did not mention the lurker at that time as I had previously thought (misremembered) but I am more convinced than before that her conversation with the neighbour led to her challenging Giles to confirm her suspicions. If you can, watch the scene again, and listen to her tone when she makes the suggestion. She definitely had something up her sleeve. Unfortunately, although she was correct - there was no phone call, because there was no goddaughter - it backfired, and led to Ronnie attacking and humiliating her. I think that this was the final straw and made her determined to get Giles out of their lives. But, having been the instrument of his introduction, she couldn't angrily confront him. Ronnie would have been justifiably angry at her naiveté, letting an unhinged, possibly dangerous fan into their home. She had to be indirect, and her plan to remove Ronnie to Vermont was a good one.

>>Again I ask how she could possibly conclude that Giles was a fan, considering how unlikely it would be. Maybe she sensed the attraction, but Giles was not a fan, at least in the commonly understood..

When I said '...the attraction originated well before they met, ie, Giles was a fan....', what I meant was that Giles had a celebrity crush on Ronnie, a fantasy romantic/sexual fixation. Audrey's realisation of this was a gradual process. Giles had started out being Audrey's exotic new friend, and she was very proud to introduce him to Ronnie. But with every passing moment, Giles' interest moved away from her to Ronnie, until finally she was left just serving them coffee and listening to their conversation. As I said earlier, we don't know if the neighbour just said he saw someone lurking, or if he specifically identified Giles. I rather think he did identify Giles, because of the pointed and suspicious way he had looked at him. If this is true, the fact that Giles had been around well before their 'accidental' meeting in the market, plus Giles' marked focus on Ronnie led Audrey to want to get to the bottom of it, hence her challenge to Giles to make the phone call.

As to the unlikelihood of Giles being a fan - an obsessed fan, at that - I can only imagine the loony communications a teen idol like Ronnie, and possibly Audrey too, as a fashion model, would have experienced as public figures. As Woody Allen has said, "The heart wants what it wants".

[–] emuir-1 10 years ago

I was puzzled as to how Audrey had guessed that Giles was not what he seemed to be. It came so suddenly that I wondered if something had ended on the cutting room floor, but after viewing the film again, I think it was female jealousy as she found Ronnie spending more time with Giles, then turning on her as he did. She began to see Giles as a rival and foster a resentment. When she called him out on the phone call to Abigail it confirmed her suspicions and all bets were off. She was going to fight for Ronnie, and she would win, so "don't let the door hit you in the rear when you leave." My feeling was that Ronnie would continue in banal teen flicks until he was "too last year" and then be washed up. I think he knew this, but was not prepared to pay the price Giles was asking.

I really enjoyed the character roles, such as the video store clerk, the delivery man and especially Irv. None was overplayed in any way.

[–] Edward_de_Vere 10 years ago

I was puzzled as to how Audrey had guessed that Giles was not what he seemed to be. It came so suddenly that I wondered if something had ended on the cutting room floor, but after viewing the film again, I think it was female jealousy as she found Ronnie spending more time with Giles, then turning on her as he did. She began to see Giles as a rival and foster a resentment.

That's part of it, the other aspect is that Giles just seemed a little too good to be true for his motives to be pure. Unless she's a complete idiot, she would have to wonder why a literate Englishman would take such a strong interest in a B-list teen movie actor, and it would dawn on her that it probably isn't because Ronny has the talents of Laurence Olivier.

When she called him out on the phone call to Abigail it confirmed her suspicions and all bets were off.

Her tone when she tells Giles to call Abigail makes it obvious that she knows at that point that Giles has a hidden agenda, and has set a trap to catch him in a lie. It wasn't the phone call episode that finally convinced her, it was just a failed attempt to expose him as a fraud.

My feeling was that Ronnie would continue in banal teen flicks until he was "too last year" and then be washed up.

That's pretty much what happens to most flavor of the month youth market celebrities. Many of them wind up as drunks and junkies as a result.

I think he knew this, but was not prepared to pay the price Giles was asking.

There's also the fact that there's absolutely nothing that Giles could really do to help Ronnie's film career. The story about writing a screenplay was just a ruse that Giles invented to ensnare him. Giles had no interest in film (he didn't even "approve" of E.M.Foster adaptations to the screen, after all), and therefore no connections to anyone in the film industry in the UK or Continental Europe, at this point he's just making empty promises to seduce Ronnie.

The scenes where Giles promises to set Ronnie up in the European arthouse film industry reminds me of the film Color Me Kubrick. It's based on the true story of a con man in London who would go around claiming to be Stanley Kubrick, and would promise various aspiring "actors" and "musicians" that he'd use his connections to secure them jobs, all in exchange for booze, money, or sex. Giles wasn't that far gone with his lies, but when he started talking about setting up Ronnie in art films using his name and connections, he came pretty close.

I really enjoyed the character roles, such as the video store clerk, the delivery man and especially Irv. None was overplayed in any way.

Irv was played by the late, great Maury Chaykin, a character actor whose brief presence always added color to just about any film. He was great as the man who hated all of his neighbors in The Sweet Hereafter.

[–] Quicksilver1900 10 years ago

There's also the fact that there's absolutely nothing that Giles could really do to help Ronnie's film career. The story about writing a screenplay was just a ruse that Giles invented to ensnare him. Giles had no interest in film (he didn't even "approve" of E.M.Foster adaptations to the screen, after all), and therefore no connections to anyone in the film industry in the UK or Continental Europe, at this point he's just making empty promises to seduce Ronnie.

That's a great point that hasn't been raised. Had the story taken another direction, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened had Ronnie come to Europe.

It wasn't the phone call episode that finally convinced her, it was just a failed attempt to expose him as a fraud.

I think Audrey definitely knew that Giles was an obsessed fan at that point, due to the combination of the obvious shift in Giles' interest, the neighbour's report, and, as you say, that Giles seemed too good to be true.

[–] eelb 10 years ago

The first 30 minutes of the film, goes into some detail in presenting Giles' standing within the European (or at least British) literary and arts community. Although he has spent his recent years in seclusion, he is still relevant enough to retain an agent/publicist, and appear at lectures and media events. There is no reason to believe that Giles' is the agent's only client, and he perhaps has ties with others in the arts and entertainment professions.

Based on this, it's not obvious that Giles believes his offer to Ronnie is totally in bad faith. It's conceivable Giles could write a screenplay, and get it produced, with Ronnie in the starring role. Perhaps not probable, but certainly doable to Giles, in his current obsessed state of mind.

If J.D. Salinger had developed an obsession with a B movie actor, and resurfaced from obscurity to write a screenplay for said actor to star in, would you deny that such an occurrence would not provoke interest within the film making industry?

[–] Quicksilver1900 10 years ago

Unlikely but remotely possible. Do you think that Giles had the stature of J.D. Salinger?

[–] zensixties 10 years ago

eel said

The first 30 minutes of the film, goes into some detail in presenting Giles' standing within the European (or at least British) literary and arts community. Although he has spent his recent years in seclusion, he is still relevant enough to retain an agent/publicist, and appear at lectures and media events. There is no reason to believe that Giles' is the agent's only client, and he perhaps has ties with others in the arts and entertainment professions.

Based on this, it's not obvious that Giles believes his offer to Ronnie is totally in bad faith. It's conceivable Giles could write a screenplay, and get it produced, with Ronnie in the starring role. Perhaps not probable, but certainly doable to Giles, in his current obsessed state of mind.

If J.D. Salinger had developed an obsession with a B movie actor, and resurfaced from obscurity to write a screenplay for said actor to star in, would you deny that such an occurrence would not provoke interest within the film making industry?

This is a good argument which I agree with. Yes, it's unlikely that Ronnie would actually have ended up going to Europe, but many American actors successful and not have done it before whether or not they have initial contacts.

Quicksilver said

Unlikely but remotely possible. Do you think that Giles had the stature of J.D. Salinger?

Well certainly he was more prolific than Salinger.

For who would bear the whips and scorns of Hollywood... (;-p)

[–] dab6 10 years ago

I think it's a lot more simple. Aubrey was noticing suspicious details in Giles' cover almost immediately (like why he was holed up in a motel room for a long stay for no apparent reason), but initially trusted him because he seemed like a kindly old Englishman. Giles gave himself up because no matter how intelligent he was, he was acting according to his passion and obsession. He didn't maintain the ruse that he was Aubrey's friend who just happened to be introduced to Ronnie. If Giles had been more in control of himself he could of pulled off the facade of him just being a lonely old man who was a fish out of water, since Aubrey and Ronnie were both nice, trusting people.

Furthermore, having had to deal with Ronnie being around other women (and men) all the time on film sets, Aubrey naturally would have eyes on the back of her head when it comes to ulterior motives.

Yes, by the time Aubrey calls Giles' bluff about the goddaughter, she clearly already distrusts him, and putting him in the vice was only final confirmation. Even as a very young woman, it wouldn't be hard for Aubrey to do the math that if Giles was interested in Ronnie, attraction was a possibility.

[–] Quicksilver1900 10 years ago

Good post, but you lose credibility through constant references to 'Aubrey'.

I agree, Audrey is surely an old hand at detecting and fending off Ronnie's obsessed fans. Giles slipped under the radar due to his exoticism, but once she realised, she got on the job.

[–] dab6 10 years ago

In a way the ending could almost be seen as happy: through his disturbing experience with Giles, Ronnie may become a better actor, and Giles through revealing himself may be ready to take baby steps out of the closet.

[–] Quicksilver1900 10 years ago

Yes, the ending was indeed hopeful. Giles, wearing Ronnie's sunglasses, now looked at the world through new eyes. Given how resourceful he was in pursuing Ronnie, we can safely assume that he will use his new-found self-knowlege to forge a more fulfilling life.

And Ronnie too has been touched by their acquaintance. We see him saying Giles' lines in HC3, and hopefully this will leader to wider horizons in his acting career. At the very least, it has opened his eyes to new possibilities beyond the teen film genre.