The relationship depicted in this film was not incestuous and it was no pedophilic. Because she wasn't a prepubescent and because she was his step daughter not his real daughter, incest can only be between people who are blood related.
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It's hebephilia at worst, with the note that 14 is legal in many 1st world countries.
At best, it borders on ephebophilia, which is close to mature development of the human body and it's natural, even though most women and men either won't admit it, or they were taught by society that even that is "wrong".
In the book she is 12 yo, so yeah its pedophilia.. and to be honest i find 14 yo still children idk where you live but a man in their 40s with a girl with 14 its pretty wrong most part of the places..
shareIn the book she is a pubescent, sexually precocious seducer, and thus Humbert is not a pedophile -- a word frequently misused to cover up for what is really going on. Humbert is not attracted to pre-pubescent girls.
shareyaa not saying no 14 year old isnt sexual. but thats pretty much the justification all pedos use..... "she was seducing me, she was giving me eyes ect" its fucked up
shareA pedophile is just that.. A *beep* pedophile. Call it what ever name u want...if that old *beep* was sexing a young girl HE IS A *beep* PEDOPHILE. PERIOD!!!!
share^^^^Someone forgot to take his/her pills.
Calm the hell down. When you grow up and learn more about humans and how we operate and feel inside, especially after a traumatic event, then you will be allowed to make comments.
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"You don't watch Michael Bay films. They happen to you."
I feel very strongly on this subject because my oldest daughter was molested by my perverted ex husband. I am no longer with that *beep* but if I see him, I will kill him. So forgive me for being PISSED TF OFF about this subject!!!
shareAnd FYI, I am a full grown woman *beep* you very much and I have a deep deep hatred of pedophilia in all forms and I hate ppl who make excuses for ANYONE that even has that mindset.
You certainly didn't act like a grown up. You need to tone it down a bit.
And by the way, this is a 20-year-old film. What's with the sudden urge for you to come here and start spreading these angry comments?
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"You don't watch Michael Bay films. They happen to you."
Humbert, IN THIS MOVIE, is not a pedophille.
Period.
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"You don't watch Michael Bay films. They happen to you."
We don't really know if he's a pedo or not, but his lust for a young "teen" girl certainly doesn't make him one. A little perverted? Maybe. But most men are by nature. We're just conditioned to keep it to ourselves. Not counting those who cant exercise self control.
shareWe don't really know if he's a pedo or not, but his lust for a young "teen" girl certainly doesn't make him one.
Yea that's the part that makes his attraction to her complicated was the premature death of that lost love all those years ago. What happen to him can realistically happen to just about any man in that position.
shareWhat happen to him can realistically happen to just about any man in that position.
You condition yourself to keep your attraction to very young girls to yourself?
Is that what youβre saying?
Thank you!
shareattraction to minors 15 and younger is pedophilia, the rest is just trivial
shareno I think it has to do with puberty which is the defining characteristic.
if you are a "pedo" your attraction comes from pre pubescent which is fucked up. if not you arent. not saying its oaky by any means for a 40 year old to go for a 14-18 year old.
it just is a big distinction
It's mild pedophilia. Not judging u know I'm just saying.
shareIt might be illegal (or mild pedophilia) but let's face reality, every man has thought about it. You'd be lying to say otherwise. Most guys just avoid it because it's illegal or because of the social attitudes towards older/younger relations.
So so true! I saw a few 14 or 15 yr old girls eyeing me at the mall & I'm minding my business but then I turn to look at them too & one lowered her eyes & then stared at me with a smile. I liked it. I couldn't help it too. They looked young but also mature & was already fully developed so um yea it's kinda normal.
shareThat is not normal
sharepunkrockgirl,
You didn't think any older guys were attractive back in the day?
But then again, what is normal? Did you know some people think urinating on someone is "hot". I never quite understood that... I find it quite repulsive to be honest.
Same with feet. Some people think feet are sexy. I don't get it.
Older/younger is not even close to being the oddest paraphilia.
It's normal for younger girls to be attracted to older men, but it is not okay that an older man be attracted to a child. That's what I'm saying, I never said girls don't find older guys attractive (that really has no relation to my point, other than a girl could make advances to an adult man but that never means he should make advances back.) People think just because the laws are different in other countries means that makes it okay when it doesn't at all. Even if he doesn't actually try to be in a relationship with her, it's still wrong to have sexual thoughts about minors. Comparing such a thing to weird fetishes is besides the point.
Also, there is no "back in the day" for me. I'm very young and only until I was much older did I start feeling attraction to any actors/musicians. It doesn't mean I'd ever want to date them or want them to date me. Celebrity crushes are very common.
>but it is not okay that an older man be attracted to a child.
I don't think the conversation was about children though. I thought we were talking about 14-18. Of course, it's not okay for a guy to be attracted to someone that hasn't even started puberty (i.e. child). Although, in the book, Lolita is 12. That's hard to really grasp. But it still might not be the worst paraphilia. Some people think having sexual encounters with animals is "hot". I find that more bizarre than some old guy finding a young girl attractive or vice-versa, older women finding young guys attractive.
>>it's still wrong to have sexual thoughts about minors.
But it's okay for two minors to have sexual thoughts for each other, right? We won't put two teens in prison for having sex but if one of them happens to be over 18, a major crime was just committed? hmmmm.... ohhh k.
>>>, there is no "back in the day" for me. I'm very young and only until I was much older did I start feeling attraction to any actors/musicians.
I remember watching the video clips of underage girls going wild over The Beatles and Elvis. What percentage do you think would have actually slept with them if given the opportunity? lol....
I would guess at least 20%.
See, that's what I don't really like about "sex laws" in general, its like some people are allowed to sleep with minors while others aren't. Not to mention the marriageable age laws haven't changed that much in most countries. It's still legal for someone over 18 to marry someone under 18 and have all the sex they want with their "child bride". You don't find this a bit ... ummm... contradictory?
14-18 is still a child. (Even if 18/19 is a legal adult, you only JUST transitioned into adulthood and are still a teenager with child like tendencies.) A man in his 40s/50s going after an 18 year old, even if a legal adult, is still extremely questionable. Notice the way young female celebrities are sexualized as soon as they turn 18 (or sadly even before that) like people were waiting for it.
I'm sure plenty of girls would leap at the opportunity, but older men still shouldn't sleep with underage girls. Even if they're throwing themselves at them, it still doesn't excuse those actions because you have someone in a position of power with someone that is not fully developed (not body but brain wise.)
I never said it was okay for two minors to have sexual thoughts for each other. Again, you're comparing with an example that isn't really related to the topic.
Laws are in place for a reason to protect children. I'm not saying they're all great or perfect, but I think it would be much more chaotic without them. Not considering it as "the worst kind of something" doesn't take away from the fact that it's a crime, and would not be morally right even if it wasn't.
Biologically speaking, 14-18 is not a child. Most people have gone through puberty by that age. A 14 year old can serve a long prison sentence if convicted of a serious crime. In other words, we'll put "children" in jail. Of course, it would most likely be juvenile center where they serve their time, but it's basically a jail for young people.
And yes, a guy "shouldn't" sleep with someone that's underage just like people shouldn't steal things but temptation happens. It's really not that unusual for a guy to find youth attractive and vice-versa, it's not that unusual for girls to find older guys attractive. Which is why I brought up some of the more "odd" sexual characteristic people sometimes have. Older/younger is really not that weird when compared to some of the other odd sexual things people do, and oddly enough, you can't get 20 years in the pen for molesting horses or dogs but you can for sleeping with someone that's underage and actually willing to do it.
Go figure....
I do agree that the laws are supposed to protect people but I disagree with some of them. I remember this one case from about 10 years ago of an 18 year old girl that went to prison for sleeping with a 14 year old. It wasn't like she raped her, they were 'girlfriends' and had known each other for a while. When we treat older/younger relations like it's the worst thing on planet earth, it opens the door for law enforcement to commit unjust acts like this. They simply want to put people in prison, it's a business.
In my opinion, the law is fine, I don't have very many problems with it, but giving someone 20+ years is crazy and then making them register as "sex offenders" afterwards is nuts, unless they did someone really bad, that is not justified at all. But really, 20 years for sleeping with someone that was willing to do it? Yeah, can't say that's justified.
"Biologically speaking...." The brain isn't fully developed until 25. A lot of people have NOT gone through puberty, even by 17/18 they're still growing and not fully developed. For about the third/fourth time, you're comparing this with something that is not related. "People shouldn't steal things but temptation happens..." That is NOT the same thing, you can't compare that. Taking advantage of a child is much worse than stealing something from the store. I'm not saying "this" or "that." Using "animal" arguments doesn't change anything.
share>>>The brain isn't fully developed until 25.
By this logic, 26 should be the age of consent.
Biology is what it's all about, sexual attraction is about hormones not brain size.
Child in the eyes of the law because they want a good reason to put someone away for 20 years. However, if the same "child" commits a serious crime, they're charged as "adults".
Again, this is probably something we won't agree on, I'm not in favor of older/younger relations but not because of brain size and whatnot but because you probably won't have that much in common with someone that much younger than you are but if two people of different ages decide to have a summer fling, I'm not losing any sleep over it.
I mean, seriously, you didn't know any girls that were sleeping with older guys when you were in high-school? It almost sounds like you went to an all girl school or a catholic school or something. When you said, "it's wrong for two teens to be attracted to each other" I just figured you were the religious type. Not that there's anything wrong with that....
I'm not saying it necessarily should be the age of consent, but I'm saying it gives another good example of the reason an adult shouldn't hold sexual thoughts/interactions . I know you can't always help your feelings, but impulse doesn't mean you should indulge or engage in your "desires."
I never said it was wrong for two teens to be attracted to each other. You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say if I think it's okay or not okay, because that isn't the topic of conversation. Two minors is a completely different thing from an adult and a minor.
Of course I knew girls like that. They were guys in their 20s, not their 30s or 40s. My dad is 9 years older than my mom. She married him when she was 16. Don't think I'm biased and have a problem with all age gaps. I just think it really depends and is usually not a good thing.
It certainly is where we disagree the most and my main problem with you saying that it's less about brain development, more about things in common that I have. That would be a problem between two consenting adults. Of course a teenager and a middle aged person won't have anything in common, but that isn't the problem. Even if it wasn't against the law, you have someone pursuing a young mind that isn't capable of consenting.
This discussion could go on for a while, so I will only reply one more time, you can have the final word.
So you have no problems with 2 minors going at it and 20s and teens going at it. You just have doubts about 30s-40s and the underage?
Fair enough, that's understandable. Although, I still don't think it's that much of a difference, sex is sex regardless of what your age is. Teens consent to sex all the time.. usually with other teens. In fact, as I'm typing this message, somewhere in the world hundreds, if not thousands of teens are having sex. So, to say they "aren't capable of consenting" is a misnomer.
But again, I wouldn't advise that people get into relationships with big age gaps like this but if it happens, I'm likely to not give two shits about it, unless one of them is forced to do it. I am highly opposed to physically forcing someone to do sexual stuff. That is pretty sick.
And seriously, despite all the warnings and teaching girls not to chase older guys and whatnot, some girls still find older guys attractive. Of course, there is no shortage of men that find young girls attractive.
I think the previous poster is correct, young girls have always been the most desired. It wasn't until the term "teenager" was created that we started to see young girls as "children" rather than "fair maidens". In fact, the most searched/viewed x-rated material involves the word "teen" in there somewhere. Of course, this is referring to 18 and 19 year olds.
Yikes, well, I want to stop myself from replying but will continue the conversation just in case people care to read my last thoughts. Thank you for maintaining your civility with me.
First of all, I never said I have no problem with two minors engaging in sexual activity. Since you seem insistent on knowing my opinion, I'll share. I'm not saying I think teens should have sex. Personally, I think everyone should wait until they're much older. Or at least wait until you're an older teen in a completely committed relationship. Prepare yourself for the potential consequences. It's really not advisable. I grew up in a Christian household so getting married is really the important part. We weren't taught to "act responsibly" and sleep around with any boyfriend/girlfriend you have. You're really still just a kid as a teenager. Compared to the rest of your lifespan, it's so young. You could say differently back then for one of the reasons that most people did not live nearly as long as now. Still, some 18/19 year olds getting married and pregnant is pretty normal. You can't compare two teens versus an adult with a teen, but you're still trying to.
That's something society teaches us is that it's a female's fault for a man taking advantage of her because she didn't "listen to the warnings" and "chased after him" instead of holding the grown man responsible.
"Fair maidens" sounds like something from the medieval times. "Young girls have always been the most desired." Yeah exactly, and it isn't okay. A young girl may still not be a straight up "child" as in a toddler, but she will still have many childlike tendencies. It's sad that "teen" is the most searched. It could be young boys watching that stuff, but it's also people of all ages. ALL ages. It's already sad in of itself that so many young men consume their minds with that crap. It's questionable you even know that information. No one should be watching that, and it shouldn't be out there for anyone to see. Any man seeking after 18 and 19 year olds in a degrading manner need to stay far away.
Biggs,
When I was in highschool, I knew of at least 5 girls that were sleeping with older guys. It happens...
I had one girl offer me her phone number one time, I declined it but she was nice looking. The age difference was pretty big though, so I doubt I would've had much in common with her.
But didn't every guy think Britney Spears was hot in her Baby One More Time music video? lol..
There's a huge difference between a girl dating guys in their 20s versus a girl with a man his 40s.
Britney Spears has been sexualized by the media since she was a teen, so your point is?
So 29 and 14 is okay?
And my point with Britney is half the male population would have slept with her. So is it really "abnormal" or is it just sexual attraction and nothing more? I mean, if it was a very small percentage of guys that would be willing to do that, then yeah, maybe it would be out of the norm, but probably not when it's such a large number that found her attractive.
When did I ever say that was okay? I'm just saying there's a difference since you pointed out that when you were in high school, you knew girls that dated older guys. You didn't give the exact age gaps. I meant more like a 17/18 year old with a 20-22 year old man. That isn't as large of a difference.
What is "just" sexual attraction? The comments that middle aged men have made about Britney throughout the years just because the media made it seem like that was okay is unsettling. Of course, teenage boys and young men will feel attracted to her. That's different.
Um...Men of all ages feel attracted to the younger pretty girl. It will always be that way u know, but we won't act on it when it's illegal, at least I won't do it.
shareI wouldn't suggest openly admitting on the internet that you have creepy thoughts about minors and that it's normal that others have those thoughts as well.
shareWhat I mean by that is, sexual attraction is "normal".
And yeah, the girls I knew in high-school were sleeping with guys that were in their 20s. Not like Humbert's age. lol...
Honestly, that big of an age difference probably doesn't happen very often but if it does, I'm not likely to lose much sleep over it. As long as both parties were willing to do it, I am not going to worry about it that much.
And why is it unsettling to find Britney attractive in that BOMT music video? Have you ever watched that movie, American Beauty? LOL!
It's even worse than guys drooling over Britney. lol.
Yes, sexual attraction in of itself is normal, but sexual attraction to teenage girls by a man in his 30s or older is abnormal. My dad told me he had friends he had to remind that they're old now, they're not in their early 20s anymore. That 20 year old woman does not want to be with you. Date someone your own age, look at women your own age. It isn't that hard. There's so many people in this world, stop acting like it's hard.
The unsettling part about it is (as I already pointed out) old men making sexual comments about a teenage girl and her body in her music videos. Of course I haven't seen American Beauty, a movie that everyone seems to pine over but glorifies nothing.
but sexual attraction to teenage girls by a man in his 30s or older is abnormal.
My dad told me he had friends he had to remind that they're old now, they're not in their early 20s anymore. That 20 year old woman does not want to be with you. Date someone your own age, look at women your own age.
So that's your only argument despite everything else I just said?
"So many" may have been an exaggeration. I don't know. It could've been a lot or just some. Even if it's so many, that still isn't normal. There are a lot of weird people out there.
It's not an argument. It's not my intent to defend the relationship depicted in this film. I find it appalling.
I'm merely pointing out that you gave an example that directly contradicts your claim.
> It's not normal.
> My dad had to remind his friends not to do it.
Your example seems to indicate that it is common. And, as despicable as it may be, it is.
Okay, I see what you're saying, but I don't believe I contradicted myself. Just because a lot of people participate in something doesn't make it normal.
shareYou should check out American Beauty. It's actually a good film. But yeah, people think it's kinda pervy.
>>but sexual attraction to teenage girls by a man in his 30s or older is abnormal<<
Opinions vary I suppose, but yeah, we'll probably never come to any agreement on this. I just don't see that much of a difference between two teens that are attracted to each other and older/younger attraction. It's all about hormones and chemistry....
I personally don't care to see it (and I know the subject matter), however, that isn't even the main thing that bothers me about it. I'm sure it's wonderfully made, but it just seems completely empty to me.
That's the main problem is you not seeing a difference between two teens and older/younger. There is a huge difference. Age. It's important. It matters. Trying to say it's all about "hormones" and "chemistry" is a terrible excuse for predators.
A pedophile is an adult attracted to pre-pubescent children. Humbert is not a pedophile. He does, however, commit statutory rape.
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