You Want Chad


People, maybe women more significantly than men, need to admit that because of his personality and good looks, people wanted Chad to end up with Stacy. When we think for a few seconds that he's the one falling in love with Stacy, we all want it to be true, because we want him to be happy. Nobody likes Howard, even though he's the one who shows remorse, love, and other human emotions. He's also the one who tells the truth, but it just makes people hate him more. I think this is Neil's purpose, to challenge the audience with our own weaknesses and frivolity, even while we are confronted with how wrong we are.

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even when i thought chad was really falling in love with stacy i still prefered howard

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*SPOILERS BELOW*


Howard is kind of a dick. Even though he seems nice and passive, he is really manipulative and evil. He wants the world to work his way, on his terms, and can't accept it when it doesn't. He's also much more violent and dangerous than Chad. He physically assaulted Christine, as well as his ex-girlfriend (at the Jewelry store, he mentions how he had to pry the ring off her finger as they wrestled on the floor of her apartment). He is unaware of his own strengths and could end up killing someone. Chad, at least, understands social dynamics and how to work with people. Even until the end, he is not cruel to Howard, who still does not suspect that his friend screwed him over for a better job. He knows that if Howard turned his rage toward him, he could be in danger, so he directs it inward-- "How does it feel to hurt someone?" Reminding Howard that he was complicit in this cruel act. Howard was unsure at first about going along with it, and perhaps fooled himself that this game wouldn't ultimately hurt anyone. Meanwhile, Chad knew exactly what he was doing at all times. Howard made the mistake of trusting Chad when the very act that Chad proposed was so heinous and evil that he should have suspected the reasons behind its suggestion. It should have put him on guard, but his need for approval and love was greater than his desire for self-preservation. For those who feel sympathy for Howard-- watch how he treated his mother and the people around him when he was doing personal business at work. He had no regard for them-- telling a woman to follow the instructions on the cover for a report, and getting back to planning his big trip with Christine. But when Christine comes in he drops everything for her. He only cared about himself. At least Chad kept up the appearance of caring for others, even though he thought everyone was a dick. In the conference room, he berates just about everyone in the company directory as well as the guy who comes in for a few moments and leaves, but he's friendly to those in the room. He knows that he can't be a success without others working their best for him, so there is give and take in his relationships. Even when he humiliates the intern in his office by asking to see his balls-- he promises a promotion to the management program. He is establishing dominance so that the new breed of managers are subservient to him. Chad also doesn't couch his intentions behind noble posturing. In a way, he is more honest. He constantly tells Howard to watch his back, and tells him exactly what he wants to do to their chosen prey, even deciding to choose someone who is handicapped. Meanwhile, Howard tells the truth with no regard for Christine's feelings. He tells her out of anger and frustration, out of powerlessness. He doesn't understand people at all. Chad uses this weakness to his advantage by befriending Howard the same way he befriended Christine, and then breaking the trust, without Howard even knowing. The cruelest thing is at the end, when Chad says he was just talking to himself.

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Good waste of time writing that crap Yves, lol.

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I like goats.

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Thanks for reading it!

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Exactly. There are many men like Howard who come across as decent people (and consider themselves to be "nice guys") but are actually self-serving and hateful.

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Just chiming in with the OP, Yves and heartofadog.

The world is full of losers like Howard who view themselves as "the nice guys" when they're actually just clueless and, yes, self-serving. Matt Malloy's commentary track makes it clear he was going for that exact note with Howard.

I also think the OP's 100% correct that LaBute purposely foils our expectations. The notion that Christine, with her pluck and honestly, melts Chad's cruel heart probably does appeal to some primal romantic-comedy instinct, and I have to agree that it's most likely LaBute's conscious intention to turn that expectation on its head.

So he foils our expectations with an ending that rings much more true to life, and IMHO is all the more more powerful for it.

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Only a retard would honestly think Chad ever gave a *beep* about Christine.

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[deleted]

"Howard is weak and easily manipulated, the type who were 'following orders' under the Nazis."

That is a bit unfair. Most qualified experts would agree that the vast majority of people would have followed the Nazi orders just like the Germans at the time. Howard is a bigger push over than most, but don't underestimate how pansy-ish most of society is.

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Howard is schmuck and a pushover

Chad is a psychopath and a nihilist.

I'm not sure which one is ultimately more dangerous.

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I didn't feel sympathy for Howard. He is a grown ass man who shouldn't have even gotten himself into such a nasty, vindictive situation. I really like what Yves and others have said regarding Howard as the 'real villian'. However, I also disagree with that assessment. Yes, he is clearly a flawed person and easily manipulated and possibly mentally ill, but like my man said before me, he actually showed genuine compassion and remorse for going along with the plan to humiliate Christine.

In my book this makes him a little bit of a better person than Chad, who showed no remorse whatsoever for his actions. He took delight in it and continued to take delight in it when he tells the truth about the inception of the plan where his wife didn't even leave him. *beep* creep! You could just seem the glint in his eye when he finally reveals all to Howard. It's actually quite frightening how somebody can be that ruthless.

Yves, you made interesting points about why Howard was worse than Chad. But it's like you yourself said, he told Christine about the plan out of ANGER and FRUSTRATION not out of spite. The man clearly has problems, but even though he obviously did, I honestly don't think he meant to hurt her in that scene. Chad by contrast was dying to see her reaction and told her in the most clear and nasty manner. Sick stuff but interesting and skillful stuff by Labute.

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Howard looks like he has a body order problem too.

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Chad is merely weak willed and easily led. He certainly isn't evil. He's just weak and flawed and has been trashed by women his whole life.

Chad isn't really evil either. He just has zero respect for women because he understands the basic truth that women who are attracted to a guy like him don't deserve respect.

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A simplified way of looking at it is that Howard was the worse of the two. Chad was bad because he was; Howard was bad because he chose to be. A lot of people fail to realize that this is not a story about Chad and Howard hurting Christine; it is a story about Chad hurting Howard. It's about what happens when one makes a deal with the Devil. Howard got just what he deserved.

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I never wanted Chad to end up with her. His character is only interesting as a malicious, unemotional type. As far as Howard being the "nice guy" or feeling "compassion"...I highly doubt he would have felt this so-called compassion if he hadn't fallen for the girl. If he had found her unattractive or annoying, too much so to fall for her, then he wouldn't have cared. He only cared in a self-serving way. Hurting her meant he wouldn't get her. He's a spineless follower but that doesn't mean he's "good." It just means he's a coward and weak and malleable. I don't understand why people have this constant need to assume that the underdog is automatically in possession of redeeming qualities just because of being a loser. Being a loser and being a nice guy are two very different things.

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Women are wilfully ignorant when it comes to the behaviour and motives of alpha-men. They ought to observe Chad in this movie and realise that 95% of the time they are acting nice, it is an act much like in this film.

Both Chad and Howard are essentially lying. The difference is is that for Chad, it's a game. It's amusing. He knows he can get virtually any woman he wants into bed, so his sense of control is complete and if things don't happen to go his way, it doesn't matter because he can find someone else to play with. Most of the time, of course, his deception will pay off.

For Howard though, his chances are much lower, and hence he's actually got a lot more invested in his "nice" act. He's not doing it because he knows it's a game and he's having fun, he actually thinks it's the proper way to act and yes, he feels there should be a pay off. This is why there is genuine frustration when it doesn't, rather than for Chad types who have far too much power over women in general to care. We see in the film how guilty Howard ended up feeling.

The other difference is, long term, a Howard type would really come to love and appreciate someone, even if a) they were being deliberately "nice" or b) would not have reacted well if they'd been rejected. A Chad type is just going to move onto the next (and as in this film, often has several at once). It's a ridiculous notion to deny someone or suggest they are not deserving of something because of they would react if they didn't get it. I mean, honestly, to suggest you'd prefer someone to be indifferent to rejection rather than hurt is the mother of all manipulative excuses.

Of course, the female in this film, despite her apparent insecurities, invariably falls for the alpha-male and trashes the "sensitive" one. Ever wonder why there are so many songs, books etc. about women's defiance in response to being hurt by men? They would rather pretend to empower themselves than admit that their own shallow choices were the root cause of their hurt.

At the end of the movie Howard is incensed because he has apologised, shown remorse and done the right thing, whereas Chad is completely unrepentant, proving he is the "better man" but despite this the female is still taking out Chad's behaviour on him (because she has no emotional sway over Chad she cannot hurt him).

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Epic post, so perfect that nobody has challenged even one of the points.

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You nailed it.

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Well observed.

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I know what people mean about guys like Howard who say they are nice guys. You see men like that justifying things like domestic violence by saying that if women went for "nice guys" like them it wouldn't happen so they have no sympathy. Clearly if they were genuinely nice guys they wouldn't have such a callous attitude. I didn't want her to end up with either man as they were both vile.

I thought this film was interesting but I didn't like the fact it seemed a bit anti-men when I first saw it but LaBute's done films with the roles reverse and the women as the abusers so I guess it evens out.

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Interesting you say that, because it's precisely my attitude. I don't take any pleasure in anyone being a victim of domestic violence (ignoring for a moment that men are the victims of nearly 50% of domestic violence) but on the other hand, as a guy who got rejected and ignored for years in favour of cocky, arrogant, bullying thuggish "alpha" types, who treat their women like *beep* and get away with it, I'm not exactly going to feel sympathy for them either. Nor when they are cheated on.

It's interesting because such often men get second, third, fourth, fifth chances - long before less physically attractive men get a first chance. And by "attractive" I mean the typical athletic, "jock" douchebag type with the permanent sh-t eating grin. These are the same guys who try to intimate you when you're just minding your own business, throw things at you out of their cars, keep you up all night with their stereos. But women seem to love them, go figure... don't see much hope in that scenario.

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You're just the type of man who is bitter about women because he can't get one. Pathetic.

The only problem with that logic is that plenty of domestic abusers are not macho jock types. Look at Ringo Starr, Fred Phelps, Phil Spector, Ryan O'Neal, Bob Dornan, Ira Einhorn, Josef Fritzl, Tommy Cooper, Sam Sheppard, Grady Stiles, Billy Dee Williams, George C Scott. All abusers and none the type you describe.

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Most domestic abusers are women, so you're right, not the macho jock types.

Your opening line is pure victim-blaming.

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Not being able to get any and doesn't make you a victim.

You said 50% of domestic abusers were women now its most? Studies vary on what number of abusers are male or female but none that haven't been discredited say that most abusers are women.

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50% of partner domestic violence is by women.

A larger percentage of adult on child domestic violence is by women.

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Adult on child domestic violence has nothing to do with what we were talking about but actually the majority of adult on child domestic violence is by men.

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Wrong. It's mostly by women, as too are child murders.

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Got any evidence for this?

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Two months and no answer. So thats a no.

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Look at any study not published by a group or centre with "Women's" in its name, and you'll see that I'm right.

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How about posting a link, so people won't think you're pulling statistics out of your butthole.

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They were both creeps.





Get me a bromide! And put some gin in it!

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Exactly. We're not meant to sympathise with either men. They're both in their own separate ways complete a-holes, and it's a pointless endeavour arguing which one was better because I wouldn't want any man to compare themselves with either Chad or Howard.

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Everyone is attracted to charismatic narcissists, which is why they're so dangerous in positions of power. Not all confident men are narcissists, and not all "nice guys" are pushovers. There's no reason why people can't be both confident and respectful.

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Everyone is attracted to charismatic narcissists, which is why they're so dangerous in positions of power. Not all confident men are narcissists, and not all "nice guys" are pushovers. There's no reason why people can't be both confident and respectful.


True enough ... consider our current U.S. President vs. our last one

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Not quite. Trump is a confident narcissist, whereas Obama was a pushover narcissist.

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