MovieChat Forums > Hercules (1997) Discussion > This movie is part of the 'Try-Hard Trio...

This movie is part of the 'Try-Hard Trio'


What do I mean by "Try Hard Trio?" Well, let me explain. Back when The Little Mermaid came out, Disney was out of the dark ages. Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin and The Lion King continued the success with Disney Animation. All 4 Disney films have become Disney classics.

However, Pocahontas came out things began to change. Pocahontas did not receive the same glowing reviews like the previous 4 films. Though it won Oscars and made money. It was a "Flop pretending to be a hit." Outside the "Colors of the WInd" section of the movie, there is literally nothing interesting or memorable about the movie. The only other good moment in the movie is "Just Around the River bend" because you can tell it is reminiscent of the classic Disney heroine musical moment. The animation is very good. But outside of that, the film is not memorable, the romance is predictable, the characters are not interesting, it is Dances with Wolves/Ferngully/Avatar/Brother Bear preachy story (which has been overdone), and tries too hard to be the next "Disney Classic." Out of all the DIsney Princesses, she is the least popular. Disney gives her an occasional experience in parks and merchandising but that's it. Girls go to Disney to see Belle, Rapunzel, Cinderella more than Pocahontas.

Next is The Hunchback of Notre Dame. I love the story of Hunchback, but it is certainly not an adaptable story for children. Same with Les Miserables. Now, you may say "Snow White, Pinocchio, Fantasia and others have scary moments for kids." Yes, but there is one thing that is different from those films compared to The Hunchback of Notre Dame. The Hunchback of Notre Dame is an adult novel dealing with the moral decay and corruption that was going on in France at that time (Same with Les Miserables). Themes of lust, religious hypocrisy, and other stuff are not in other Disney films. Now, is it bad that Hunchback has those themes? No, that is what makes the book great. But for a Disney audience? If Disney made Les Miserables, Fantine would have to be a beggar woman instead of a prostitute. Doesn't work because it takes away the emotional impact of Fantine becoming a prostitute. Well with Disney's Hunchback, they "cleaned up" the story while trying to keep some adult stuff to make it work. Sorry but it doesn't. That makes the film totally and dramatically uneven. The moment with the Gargoyles are the biggest proof of that point. So that is the main problem with Hunchback. Parents and kids did not connect with the film. The reason it has a "cult" following is because the teenage and young adult demographic connect with the themes of this story and they like the daring edgy stuff in this film. While it is daring for Disney to touch on themes of lust, it comes across as "Oh look at us we can create an adult Disney movie and yet we have cute characters like the gargoyles." Eh NO. So I look at Hunchback as a NonDisney film. If the Gargoyles and Disney cliches were not present and this movie was made by Don Bluth or some other animation studio, then this movie would be a masterpiece for sure. But we are stuck with what we have. The film made less the previous Disney films which showed the decline with Disney.

Now, Hercules. Pocahontas was too preachy, The Hunchback of Notre Dame was too dark, now we have an Aladdin like film YAYYYYehhhh. This film REALLY tries too hard. The songs are not memorable at all, Gospel with Greek Mythology? Look the gospel music fit with The Princess and the Frog, but not this film. Hercules's characters and songs fall really flat. Aladdin was memorable because he was interesting a relatable. Hercules is not interesting at all. He lacks the depth of Aladdin and the chemistry between him and Meg is certainly not as strong as Aladdin and Jasmine. it feels forced. That is the problem with Hercules, everything feels forced and not original. The animation is not great. Yea, Aladdin has some cartoony moments but they worked. This one is really dumbed down. Now Hades is a good villain because of James Wood's voice work. Frollo same deal. But overall, nothing stands out with this film. They tried to promote Hercules so much with a TV series, kingdom Hearts and some park stuff but it was very short lived and the movie made even less that its predecessors.

The only Disney films after the Lion King and before the slump of the early 2000s (excluding Lilo & Stitch) that were able to be almost just as good as the early 90s classics are Mulan, Tarzan and even Fantasia 2000. Mulan and Tarzan made more money and connected with audiences. The thing I get disappointed is that they don't promote Mulan and Tarzan as much (though WAY more than Pocahontas, Hunchback and Hercules). 1998-early 2000 was small period of Disney magic returning. But anyway the reason I call Pocahontas, The Hunchback of Notre Dame and Hercules the "Try Hard Trio" is that Disney tried too hard to make these films the huge successes of the "fabulous four." Instead they lost their grip. These movies may have their followings but they do not a 'classic' status for sure. No diamond editions for these films. I'm feel that Mulan and Tarzan should receive diamond editions but I'll have to wait on that I guess.

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I find the relationship between Aladdin and Jasmine more surreal in comparison. Meg on the other hand is a character who many females can see themselves in and empathize with.

But I do sort of understand why this film is not among the classics. The story reminds a lot of Superman, which can make it understandable why some likely thought that Disney was out of ideas when it came out. It's one of my favorites, but I do wholeheartedly admit that it's only because of nostalgic bias.

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This movie actually got good reviews. Not GREAT, like the "fab four", but good.

It's well-made, and even entertaining--but just not super memorable. That's all.

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Flat?
Are you kidding me? Like literally? are you looking at it objectively or you sat through the songs and didn't find them catchy at all?

I find the words stuck in my head all the time.
"Gonna shout it from the mountaintops
A star is born
It's a time for pulling out the stops
A star is born"

Or from a heart felt solo of "I can go the distance" to
"Who put the glad in gladiator?
Hercules!
Whose daring deeds are great theater?
Hercules
Is he bold?
No one braver
Is he sweet
Our favorite flavor"
All with visual references to modern trends and tech parody's.
Every song, even the ones that last 20 seconds giving exposition on hades just give it this grim undertone that hadn't been seen before.

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I agree. I LOVE the music from Hercules; honestly, that's why it's one of my favorite animated movies. I find myself singing "Zero to Hero, in no time flat" and "No chance, no way, I won't say it, no no" all the time. And "Go the Distance" is currently on my iPod.

I also agree about the modern trends and tech parodies. They are literally ALL OVER THE PLACE in the movie. From the "Air Hercs" to the sundials scene to "Call I, X, I, I", it's just all hilarious. I love the way the movie pokes fun at itself.

After the songs, though, my absolute favorite part of the movie is Meg. She is unlike any other female Disney character. She's witty, sarcastic, and pessimistic, in addition to being completely able to take care of herself. I feel like she is such a refreshing spin on the Disney leading ladies.

People always talk about how the only reason someone would like Hercules is nostalgia. Well, it's my favorite Disney movie and my second favorite animated movie of all time (after Anastasia) and it has nothing to do with nostalgia. Really, it all comes down to the music and the characters.

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I'd say you could probably fit Pocahontas and Hercules in this 'try-hard' status (I agree more with Pocahontas than I do Hercules though, I really enjoyed Hercules.) I, however, think The Hunchback of Notre Dame was great and rather epic, I'd say it had just a couple more darker themes than Beauty and the Beast, the original story is supposed to be quite dark so it's not really possible to make it all light and fluffy without ruining the source material. Anyways, I will agree with 2 out of 3 and that's pushing it.

Believe me, nothing is trivial. - Eric Draven, The Crow.

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I have to say that even though I don't like this movie, how come this one NEVER got any new DVD or Blu-Ray release? I know it is not Disney's most popular movie but neither is Home on the Range or Oliver & Company (Yet they get a new disc). Maybe this year it will finally be released because most Disney animated films have been released on Blu-Ray. Aladdin and 101 Dalmatians will be part of the diamond releases but Tarzan and Black Cauldron have yet to get a blu-ray release (And Black Cauldron did get a new disc release not long ago and yet it is also not popular).

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I understand where you're coming from calling Pocahontas, Hunchback, and Hercules the "Try Hard Trilogy" because they were probably the least successful films of the Disney Renaissance, but I think actually all three films are pretty underrated. As for Pocahontas and Hunchback I think Disney took a risk in dealing with a little more mature subject matter than it had in its previous movies and although it didn't pay off as financially well, I still appreciate the films. As for Hercules, I may be a little biased because it is my favorite Disney film but I think just the fact that it can be my favorite over so many other greats like Beauty and the Beats, Little Mermaid, etc. shows that's its not all bad. I don't think the film "tries too hard" at all. The gospel music was an interesting choice but actually ends up fitting the movie really well using the muses as a type of Greek Chorus to help narrate the story. It invigorates the film with a ton of life, and honestly I think the music is the best part about it. I also think Hercules is a more interesting character than you give him credit for. He obviously can't be to complicated because it is a movie for kids, but the fact that he is a boy who doesn't fit in and is looking for his place where he belongs resonates with a lot of kids and inspires them to work hard like he does in the film. Sure, this movie was less financially successful than other Disney classics, but that definitely does not make it a bad movie. Sure financial success is important as part of the film business but I think when analyzing a film's value it is not the only thing that should be taken into account and Hercules is still a good movie, despite its lack of financial gain.

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Well I'm not that fond of Pocahontas so no arguments there, but I honestly feel like The Hunchback of Notre Dame is one of Disney's best, darkest and most mature films, the only negative is the gargoyles but they don't annoy me as much as Timon and Pumba from the overrated Lion King. As for Hercules, I admit to hating it the first time I saw it but it definitely grew on me, it's not perfect but I do like most of the songs and Hades and Meg. It did go a little overboard on pop culture references, something I used to be really hard on Aladdin for, but now admit to loving that film, so I would have to give Pocahontas a 5/10, Hunchback a 10/10, and Hercules a 7.5/10. As for Mulan, I really tried to love it but still don't care for it, and I really enjoyed Tarzan despite having a weak villain.

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Now, Hercules. Pocahontas was too preachy, The Hunchback of Notre Dame was too dark, now we have an Aladdin like film YAYYYYehhhh. This film REALLY tries too hard. The songs are not memorable at all, Gospel with Greek Mythology? Look the gospel music fit with The Princess and the Frog, but not this film. Hercules's characters and songs fall really flat. Aladdin was memorable because he was interesting a relatable. Hercules is not interesting at all. He lacks the depth of Aladdin and the chemistry between him and Meg is certainly not as strong as Aladdin and Jasmine. it feels forced. That is the problem with Hercules, everything feels forced and not original. The animation is not great. Yea, Aladdin has some cartoony moments but they worked. This one is really dumbed down. Now Hades is a good villain because of James Wood's voice work. Frollo same deal. But overall, nothing stands out with this film. They tried to promote Hercules so much with a TV series, kingdom Hearts and some park stuff but it was very short lived and the movie made even less that its predecessors.

All that is only your opinions, buddy. I like this movie very much.

Intelligence and purity.

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