Im trying to do a survey type thing and I would appreciate it if anyone who is an IRA supporter would come forward and say so so i can get the numbers. Thank you. You will not be judged in an way shape of form, just dont be afraid to stand up for what you believe in. Try not to post anything negative though, lets keep this as nice as possible. And it doesnt matter if you are irish-american or irish.
sharestate your intentions!!
shareInteresting you would reply, "state your intentions!" I was in London talking to a couple of EDL guys and was asking what I thought were some harmless questions about their organizaton. Suddenly, one EDL guy asks me rather controntationally, "state your intentions."
I quickly learned that a person needs to know the culture before he starts running his mouth and asking questions.
The IRA arent terrorists, they're freedom fighters.
Forza raf.
the Irish Republican Terrorist Organisation (they are hardly an army, to imply so is insulting in the extreme, not least to those maimed) can be "freedom fighters". I'm really having trouble with the concept.... Since they already have freedom to start with, it kinda renders the statement illogical.
shareWho the feck are the IRTO, is this a new faction in the liberation struggle?
Forza RAF.
The "liberation struggle" where you nutjob? Ireland isn't the Middle East. In any event, it isn't a struggle for "liberation" if you intend to kill the supposedly "subjugated" civilians in the process.
I've obviously bastardised the name, as the organisation is not worthy of the term 'army'. In fact, in strict English terms, it cannot be defined as an army. The name IRA is a patent oxymoron.
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Place the e-mail notification feature on you nugget, if it’s too difficult for your fevered brain to identify replies.
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IRELAND UNFREE SHALL NEVER BE AT PEACE! I THINK THAT THIS IS WIDELY ACKNOWLEDGED. AS LONG AS THERE IS A FOREIGN ARMY ON IRISH SOIL THE IRISH WILL REVOLT AND TRY TO REMOVE THIS POWER.
shareO RITE. SO WHAT THE POPE SAYS GOES, WISE UP TO YOURSELF. WHAT DOES ALL THIS MATTER - THE WHOLE POINT IS THAT WHEN I LOOK OUTSIDE MY DOOR I SEE BRITSH TROOPS AND BRITISH SECURITY FORCES (POLICE) TRAMPING OVER IRISH SOIL. I WILL RENOUNCE ANY DECLARATION THAT THE BRITSH FAIRLY LAY CLAIM TO IRISH SOIL. I THINK THAT THE WAY THAT WE HAVE BEEN TREATED BY THE BRITSH NATION SHOWS US THAT WE ARE BEST LEFT TO RULE OURSELVES AS IT IS MEANT TO BE.
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YOU ARE CORRECTED. THERE ARE MORE BRITISH SOLDIERS IN THE OCCUPPIED SIX COUNTIES THAN THERE ARE IN IRAQ, THIS IS A KNOWN FACT. I SEE BRITSH TROOPS CARRYING OUT SECTARIAN SEARCHES AND ROADBLOCKS.
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More soldiers in N.I? not a chance in hell, and the army haven't carried out any road stops in ages and do not take part in searches. You live in some twisted version of the past which does not and never did happen. You spout off this rubbish in an attempt to gain support and justify the fact that terrorists murdered people in the past and the intelligence gathering, racketering, punishment beatings and recruitment is continuing. The current state of affairs will only continue so long and then a government will eventually come along with both the mandate to stop you and the balls to see it through. You thought Thatcher was hard? you haven't seen anything yet
shareYES THERE IS. THIS FACT WAS DOING THE ROUNDS IN THE PAPERS A WHILE BACK - LIKE LAST MONTH.
YOU TALK UTTER *beep* OF COURSE THERE ARE ARMY ROADBLOCKS YOU EEJIT, WHEN THE DISSENDENTS PLANT BOMBS OR HOAXES. HAHAHA YOU THINK IF YOU BRING SOMEONE IN TOUGHER THAN THATCHER THEN WE WONT GO BACK TO WAR - THINK AGAIN - WAR WILL BE THE ONLY ANSWER IF POLITICAL MEASURES ARE NOT WORKING. YOU THINK THE WILL OF THE IRISH PEOPLE WHICH HAS LASTED 800 YEARS WILL JUST STOP LIKE THAT BECAUSE OF A STERN BRITSH GOVERNMENT. TAKE IT FROM ME, A LOT OF REPUBLICANS HERE ARE FANATICAL AND WILL STOP AT NOTHING.
"THIS FACT WAS DOING THE ROUNDS IN THE PAPERS A WHILE BACK - LIKE LAST MONTH."
You think everything written in papers is true? What age are you? 10? i bet you read a high class paper like An Phoblaic. As for your comment about fanatical, dont make me laugh the remaining republicans that believe in any cause are far outnumbered by gangsters ,maybe years ago with people like Sands etc but now? Its all about how much money and power within a community. High profile republicans such as Adams and McGuiness can try what they want but if it returns to war in a post September 11th society how much support will you get? What made PIRA so much more effective than any loyalist group and any other republican group was financial backing for proper equipment. You think if it started again Ireland would keep the non-extridition policy in force? and finally the Irish that you claim support, you what about the murderers of Jerry McCabe hope they enjoy the fact that the agreement didn't get them out.
Face it militant republicanism has no-where to go
ABOUT JERRY MCCABE - ALTHOUGH THIS WAS A BRUTAL AND WRONG MURDER I DONT BELIEVE THAT THE MEN IN QUESTION SHOULD BE KEPT IN JAIL IF EVERYONE ELSE. THESE MEN ARE MURDERERS BUT THEY SHOULD BE FREED WITH FAIRNESS TO EVERYONE ELSE.
THE IRA HAS WILTED AWAY SINCE THE CEASFIRES BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT IF YOUR SO CALLED "HARDER THAN MAGGIE GOVT" CAME IN AND TRIED TO ROOT US OUT THEN A NEW GENERATION OF MILITANT REPUBLICANISM WILL BE BORN.
TAKE IT FROM ME - THERE IS A LOAD OF FANATICS WILLING TO DIE FOR IRELAND. THE MAJORITY OF THESE WOULDNT BE IN THE IRA CURRENTLY. I WOULDNT UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF THE IRA. A FEW UNDESIRABLES HAVE BROUGHT THE ARMY INTO DISREPUTE BUT I KNOW THAT THE MAINSTAY IS THERE. AND THEY ARE GENUINLY DECENT PEOPLE.
YOU SPELT AN PHOBLACHT WRONG. I READ 3 PAPERS EVERY DAY. THE IRISH NEWS, THE BELFAST TELEGRAPH AND THE GUARDIAN. TO GET A WIDE VIEWPOINT.
"YOU SPELT AN PHOBLACHT WRONG"
What do you expect? a semi reasonable attempt at a debate AND good spelling?
What an ignorant misguided view of the world you have. Do you know what it's like to live in ROI? You have a far better standard of living in NI. How do you think ROI could support an extra million people and the standard of living you enjoy at the moment - have you ever even stopped to think about it? You wouldn't have any NHS, public transport is rubbish, inflation and cost of living is massive, the Euro is a nightmare, infrastructure of all sorts in tons better in NI. People are much nicer in NI. And get this - not many people in ROI want you back. We don't want to pay extra tax to keep another million people going. We pay far too much tax as it is. What industry does NI have to pay for their keep in ROI? NONE. Shortts is gone, H&W is gone. Face facts boy - Westminster has been pouring tons of money into NI for the past decades to keep the place going. ROI won't do that. If the British army pull out - who will protect you? The Irish army certainly couldn't. They barely know how to tie their own shoelaces and are all over the age of 40.
Wake up from your idiotic drivel about times past and face facts. Get a life.
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Nope - to the sniper muppet.
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In my experience people in NI are for the most part very nice. You meet horrible people no matter where you go. I'm from ROI - born and raised there but have lived in NI and mainland UK too. ROI is certainly my least favourite of all those places. I think NI would be my favourite as it combines the best of both worlds from ROI and GB. You've got the standard of living and facilities etc from GB but mixed with the lifestyle of ROI. I was lukcy to live in Belfast in a normal area with normal people. Some people are very unlucky to be born into a bad area with all sorts of madness going on - but those who choose to live a normal life and just get on with things as most people in this world want to do can have a very nice life. I know thats oversimplifying things but people like that sniper muppet above get on my goat - moaning and whining - if they just shut up and got on with it and give us all a break!
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YES NO DOUBT WESTMINISTER HAS TRIED TO MAKE UP FOR THE HUNDREDS OF YEARS OF MURDER, GENOCIDE, TORTURE AND DISCRIMINATION BY PUTTING A FEW PLANTS UP AND BUILDING A FEW SHINY BUILDINGS. WEST BELFAST HAS ALSO RECENTLY ACQUIRED A GAELTACHT - AN IRISH SPEAKING PART WHERE IRISH IS THE MOST SPOKEN - EXCELLTENT IN MY OPINION.
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YES, I HAVE LIVED IN DONEGAL, CORK AND DUBLIN. LOCH AN IUIR IN DONEGAL AND SCHULL IN CORK. I HATE DUBLIN.
I WOULD RATHER LIVE IN A REUNIFIED IRELAND THAN HAVE BRITISH ARMY TRAMPING OVER MY SOIL AND HOLDING OUR COUNTRY TO RANSOM. SHORTTS IS STIL THERE, NEAR MY HOUSE - STILL ALIVE AND KICKING AND STILL RECRUITING. HARLAND AN WOLFF - A COMPLETLY SECTARIAN WORKPLACE.
ITS NOT ALL BLACK AND WHITE VDSC. IT ALL HAS TO BE WORKED OUT IN A WAY THAT UNIONISTS STILL FEEL SAFE. JUST BECAUSE THE MURDERING BRITSH SCUMBAGS PULL OUT DOESNT MEAN THAT KNOWONE WILL BE THERE TO ENFORCE LAW AND ORDER. IT WILL HAVE TO BE WORKED OUT BEFORE HAND.
Turn off the caps why don't you. What are you - Ian Paisley?!
shareYES I MUST BE IAN PAISLEY BECAUSE I TYPE IN CAPITALS !!
share"just if you look like a Catholic "
What does a catholic look like and how does that differ from a protestant?
Yes you certainly shout as much as he does. I bet you taken just about as seriously as he does too.
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As far as I am concerned the IRA can go to hell.
And you have not been invaded by a foreign army Ireland (The North) is part of the British isles. And do you think only the English, Welsh and Scotish join the Army? I have known many Irishmen. It isn't a foreign occupation as Ireland isn't a colony it is part of the British Isles and the United Kingdom.
And that gentleman from ROI (Sorry I can't remember his name) is correct ROI doesn't want NI. And you wouldn't have as good a life.
Why don't you move away from the UK and into ROI, Mr Sniper if you hate it that much?
And as they say some of the things you have been saying are false you are living in the past (with some embelismnets). I consider myself British as I seem to be English, Scotish and Welsh.
The republicans are the minority in NI so why should the Minority say what the majority should do? Why should British citizens be bullied and told they can't be Irish and British.
The IRA are like Al-Quaeda and all terrorsit groups. They will go to Hell and have comupance.
As far as I am concerned the IRA shouldn't call themselves true Catholics or even Christians.
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DOCTOR
IRELAND IS A COLONY OF BRITAIN WEATHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT. I DONT RECOGNISE THE LEGITIMACY OF BRITISH RULE IN IRELAND. AND SO MUST THE MAJORITY OF CATHOLICS IF THE VOTE FOR SINN FÉIN - HARDLY A PRO BRITISH PARTY, AS THEY ARE HELL BENT ON REMOVING THE FOREIGN POWER.
I RECOGNISE THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE ROI DONT WANT THE NORTH BUT I BELIEVE THAT IF THERE WAS A VOTE TODAY OR TOMORROW IN IRELAND THEN WE WOULD BE SET FREE AT LAST.
WHY WOULD I MOVE ? THIS IS MY COUNTRY AND NO-ONE IS GOING TO MAKE ME MOVE. THAT ARGUMENT IS JUST IMPRACTICAL.
WHAT HAVE I SAID THAT IS FALSE?
REPUBLICANS A MINORITY IN AN IMAGINARY "SET" AREA MADE BY THE BRITISH. IT IS A FALSE STATELET AND DOESNT EVEN COMPREHEND A COUNTRY. IF THE BRISH PULLED THE SIX COUNTIES AWAY FROM THE REST OF IRELAND THEN WHAT IS STOPPING US PULLING REPUBLICAN AREAS AWAY FROM THE SO CALLED "NORTHEN IRELAND". IS THAT NOT THE SAME THING? WELL OF COURSE IF THAT HAPPENED THEN "NORTHERN IRELAND" WOULD COLLAPSE AS IT WOULD BE WAY TOO SMALL FOR A COUNTRY. THAT IS WHY THIS HAS NOT BEEN ALLOWED. HYPOCRISY - SURELY NOT.
IF YOU BELIEVE THE IRA ARE A TERRORIST ORGANISATION THEN IN MY OPINION YOU ARE WRONG. I RECOGNISE THAT THEY HAVE MADE HORRIBLE MISTAKES AND DECISIONS IN THE PAST - BUT ALL THAT HAS DONE IS SET THEM BACK.
AS THE IRA ETHOS GOES, THEY WOULDNT GET INVOLVED IN CALLING THEMSELVES CATHOLICS AS THIS IS SECTARIANISM. JUST TELL THAT TO THE MANY PROTESTANT IRA AND INLA VOLUNTEERS AND ALSO THE PROTESTANT DEAD - (ONLY ONE I CAN THINK OF NOW IS RONNIE BUNTING WHO WAS A PROTESTANT INLA MAN, SON OF A UNIONIST POLITICIAN.)
I HAVE REPLIED TO EACH OF YOUR POINTS RESPECTIVLY IN THE ORDER YOU HAVE MADE THEM.
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WHY WOULD I MOVE ? THIS IS MY COUNTRY AND NO-ONE IS GOING TO MAKE ME MOVE. THAT ARGUMENT IS JUST IMPRACTICAL- what about the people forced to leave because of their so-called anti-social behaviour or any other 'crimes' decided upon by some godfather figure. The PIRA is an organistaion of double standards they claim they were tortured in Castlereagh into confessing to crimes but what of the number of people tortured and shot by the IRA as informants or for whatever reason they decided fitted such treatment. All that they have is a very slick propaganda machine. and your point about the IRA ethos THEY WOULDNT GET INVOLVED IN CALLING THEMSELVES CATHOLICS AS THIS IS SECTARIANISM so where did the cover name of Catholic Reaction Force come form?
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CRF NOTHING TO DO WITH PIRA.
INFORMANTS DESERVE TO HAVE THEIR LIFE ENDED. IF THEY HAVE A SOLE THEN THERE LIFE WILL ALREADY BE OVER KNOWING THAT THEY HAVE INFORMED ON THEIR SO CALLED COMRADES.
JOY RIDERS ARE ALSO DEATH RIDERS. THEY DESERVE TO BE KNEECAPPED FOR THE HURT THEY HAVE CAUSED THEIR COMMUNITY. BETTER SHOT SO THAT YOU LEARN YOUR LESSON. IF THE RUC/PSNI GET TO THEM FIRST THEY WILL MAKE THEM "TOUT" ON THEIR OWN COMMUNITTIES SO THAT THEY WONT GET CONVICTED FOR ANYTHING. THIS HAS HAPPENED FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.
CriostoirG, I see you have resorted to insults because someone has different opininion to you...well done.
I have not insulted you, unless ofcourse you are a member of the IRA in which I am glad you are offended.
As far as I am concerned the IRA are as bad as Al-Queada...they will be judged and they will be damned in the end!
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DOCTOR WHO - NICE TO SEE YOU REPLIED TO MY POST THEN.
shareI'm from Ireland, and I'd just like to present a different point of view from that presented here by the guy above who CAN'T FIND THE CAPS LOCK KEY.
First of all, most people on this island don't agree with him. Specifically, we don't agree that people should be shot in the head without trial if they're considered "informants" by some group of self-appointed "freedom fighters", as he has just posted.
Secondly, we don't believe that any solution in the north can be brought about by violence. And indeed, even those in the republican movement (the IRA, for those not familiar with the politics of the area) are slowly coming to that conclusion. Painfully slowly, but slowly.
Thirdly, the vast, vast, vast majority of people on the island of Ireland have no prejudice against anyone british, or scottish, or welsh, or english, or dutch, or martian. We don't think you stole our land. We don't think you are personally responsible for the famine of 1848. We'd like to meet you, have a pint, and if you're good looking (and of an appropriate gender) take you home and invite you in for a coffee.
And finally - this is a movie website. We're not going to re-run the battle of the boyne here. At best, we can hope that the fellow who is keyboard-ly challenged will eventually figure out where the caps-lock key is. (Hint hint - go left, search above the shift key.)
Anybody seen any good movies lately?
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WELL JAMES FLYNN. YOU MUST BE PISSED OFF AT SINN FÉIN'S CONSTANT GROWTH IN THE 26 COUNTIES AND THEIR MAJORITY STATUS IN THE OCCUPPIED SIX COUNTIES NATIONALIST POPULATION. PEOPLE LIKE YOU FROM THE 26 REALLY PISS ME OFF. YOU ALREADY HAVE YOUR FREEDOM AND A LOT OF YOU STOPPED AT THAT - NOT GIVING A *beep* ABOUT US. THAT WOULD BE UNFAIR TO GENERALISE YOU ALL BECAUSE AN AWFULLOT HAVE STAYED FAITHFUL TO WHAT THEY THOUGHT WAS RIGHT AND WERN'T TURNED OFF BY THE SLIGHTEST THING.
YOU DONT HAVE A CLUE. LIVE UP HERE IN A REPUBLICAN GHETTO AND SEE WHAT YOUR VIEW POINT IS.
YOU CAN ALWAYS PHONE THE GUARDS. WHO DO WE HAVE ?
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I don't want to be involved in the British vs Irish thing that seems to be happening here, but i live in the East midlands too, and I have also noticed that sport shops only sell Celtic tops, as opposed to Rangers tops. When McCoys said that there was a large Irish community, here I am assuming he/she is talking about the travelling community.
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Crossmaglen_Sniper,
No No No! I really need you to take one small thing away from this email thread. I accept that you'll never realise that putting bullets in people's heads is counter-productive to a united ireland. I accept that no amount of facts or debate will ever stop you from hating "the brits" or "the prods".
I just want you to make one small simple step towards democratic politics - by learning where the CAPS LOCK key is on your keyboard. For the love of God, man - the 800 years of British Oppression and all that are no excuse for your typing. It may *explain* it, but it doesn't *excuse* it.
I'm not "pissed off" by Sinn Fein's limited electoral rise, I hope that it will convince them of the obvious truth that 35 years of terrorism achieved essentialy *nothing* except thousands of deaths, whereas a few short years of democratic action have brought them into a position of real influence. And if they go back to bombing, all the influence will melt away in an instant. It's decision time for Sinn Fein and the IRA - and I'm optimistic, because depite the course they've chosen in the past, their leadership are not idiots.
As for your point that only people who live in a situation have the right to comment on its morality, well that's nonsense if you think about it! Do you have an opinion on the war in Iraq? George Bush? Israel/Palestine? Third-world debt? Well, according to your argument, you've no right to an opinion.
Somehow, I doubt that will stop you giving your opinion again though . . . . :-)
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JAMES FLYNN.
I DON'T HATE PROTESTANTS. I DONT SEE THIS STRUGGLE AS A RELIGIOUS ONE, WHICH YOU MIGHT, ONLY SINGLE MINDED PEOPLE BRAND IRELANDS FIGHT AS ONE BETWEEN CATHOLICS AND PROTESTANTS. THE ONLY PEOPLE I HATE ON THIS ISLAND ARE THE BRITISH SECURITY FORCES WHO ARE HOLDING US AGAINST OUR WILL.
THE ONLY THING THAT BROUGHT THE BRITS TO THE NEGOTIATION TABLE WAS THE BOMBS AND THE BULLETS. ACHIEVED NOTHING, THAT IS NOT WHAT THE REPUBLICAN MOVEMENT AND TO A CERTAIN EXTENT CONSTITUTIONAL NATIONALISM THINKS. WE WILL SEE WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS. CALLING IT 35 YEARS OF TERRORISM IS VERY IGNORANT. DO YOU THINK THAT 99% OF THE REPUBLICAN MEMBERS IN PRISON WOULD EVER HAD STEPPED FOOT INSIDE A PRISON GATE HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR THE SITUATION THAT WAS PRESENT.
GOOD POINT ABOUT THE OPINION - THAT DOESNT STOP AN ISRAELI SAYING I SHOULDNT HAVE AN OPINION ON PALESTINE OR THE AMERICANS SAYING THE SAME ABOUT IRAQ. I DO BELIEVE IF YOU LIVED UP HERE YOUR OPINION MIGHT CHANGE EVER THE SLIGHTEST.
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Hi Charlie,
> The actions of the IRA as distasteful as they were, were not a waste of time
The IRA of 1916 and the Provisional IRA of the Northern Ireland conflict where entirely different organisations, in entirely different historical contexts, with entirely different methods.
The undoubted discrimination against Catholics in Northern Ireland never justified the campaign of slaughter of non-combatant protestants that the Provisional IRA carried out.
They may have carried out a protective role for the Catholic community in the early years of the conflict, but they quickly moved to be a marxist violent revolutionary movement, whose tactics included mass terrorist slaughter. Don't agree? Ok, how would you explain the officially-sanctioned IRA "actions" at Kings Mill, Teebane, Claudy Day, La Mon House, Tullyvallen, the Shankhill Fish Shop, Enniskillen, and (by their former members) Omagh? All mistakes? All "acceptable collateral damage" in the pursuit of a higher goal? Maybe not.
> The saddest part is that the irish people were put
> in a situation where this was the only course of action
> open to them afetr being ignored for so long.
The vast majority of the Irish People did *not* support the IRA during the troubles. It's only in the most recent election (and since they're apparently left the machine gun in their murky past) that they've achieved a majority of votes from the nationalist population. Note that they regularaly recieved 10% of the vote in *northern* *ireland* alone in the 80s, and even less in the south, before they gave up bombing.
There was always another option in the northern ireland conflict, and during that conflict, the majority of northern nationalists supported that non-violent option. It was just the extremists from both sides who turned to the gun.
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Sniper,
I doubt that we differ on objective. Most people in the 26 counties very much desire a united Ireland, despite the obvious economic cost. Where we differ is in what is the best way to achieve this objective, and what we consider reasonable and moral steps along that path.
The vast majority of people on the island of Ireland want us to resolve our political differences without the use of violence. Sinn Fein, the party which is, let's say "frequently associated" with the Provisional IRA, received a little over 10% of the votes in the last Irish elections. They got more north of the border, and less south of the border - it averages out at a little over 10% of the entire Irish population. Most people are revolted by what they do.
You make an often-made point about terrorism - it's in the eye of the beholder, I guess. Killing 11 people at a rememberance day religious service in Enniskillen, burning to death 12 protestant pensioners in La Mon House, blowing up 8 protestant construction workers in a mini-bus in Teebane. The IRA considers these events honourable actions in a war of liberation. I consider these things to be terrorism.
Now, there were plenty - *plenty* - of appalling actions taken by the British Security forces in NI over the course of the past 35 years, and I'm not excusing their actions. But what the IRA did was simply depraved, plain and simple. Nothing that the british did justified the IRA's slaughter of innocents. *Nothing*
Most importantly, Sniper, is that the murders and bombs were futile, and harmed the cause of Irish unity more than it helped. Ever hear of the Sunningdale Agreement of 1973? I imagine it was from long before you were born! This power-sharing agreement between the two communities, that was wrecked by the extremists from both sides. Can you tell me what significant concession the Good Friday agreement has given us over and above Sunningdale 1973? Sweet Nothing - that's what.
All the 35 years of killing did was make the unionist community distrust the nationalist of catholic community *more* than before. How much closer to a united ireland are we now, after all the murdering and bombing and executions? We're further away.
So, my original point of posting was really to point out to any casual reader of this thread that your opinions are very much in the minority today (thank goodness), and we in Ireland have a path forward, the vast majority of us north and south of the border don't hate the "brits" or wish to resolve our political differences without "putting lead in heads".
Kind regards and good luck in the future,
James
What the UVF did was sectarian slaughter, plain and simple. But does that make sectarian slaughter by the IRA then RIGHT? If a protestant goes out and shoots a random innocent catholic, does that give the IRA the right to do the same? I don't think it does! And if you don't think the IRA bombed and killed random protestants over the course of the troubles, then you need to read your history some more.
The IRA may have started with a defensive policy in the late 60s/early 70s, but that quickly evolved into the same mindless slaughter as the UVF, only on more professional scale. I fail to see how killing a three year old child in Warrington in 1993 advanced the cause of Irish unity. Can you explain to me how it did? Jonathan Ball was just one of *hundreds* of completely innocent civilians murdered by the IRA. Pointless, wasted, slaughter.
But all that luckily is almost in the past. There was always a way to resolve the problems without the bombs, and only a small minority of the catholic population north and south ever supported the IRA. Now, finally, after 35 years, even the mindless extremists have figured out they can achieve their objectives quicker and easier without violence. Slow learners.
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I DO BELIEVE THAT SUCH THINGS AS ENNISKILLEN, LA MON AND A FEW OTHERS WERE HORRENDOUS AND COMPLETLY UNJUSTIFIED. BUT A FEW SET BACKS ARN'T GOING TO MAKE ME AND A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE DOUBT THE JUSTIFICATION IN BEARING ARMS IN ORDER TO GAIN FREEDOM.
I AGREE THAT NOTHING JUSTIFIES THE MURDER OF INNOCENT PEOPLE, BUT I SEE THE KILLING OF THE BRITISH SECURITY SERVICES AS JUSTIFIED, MAYBE NOT NOW IF THERE IS A CHANCE OF REUNIFICATION THROUGH PEACEFUL METHODS, BUT IF THERE ISNT THEN...
THE BOMBS AND THE BULLETS WERE NOT FUTILE, THATS WHAT BROUGHT DOWN SECTARIAN STORMONT. THATS WHAT BROUGHT THE BRITS TO THE NEGOTIATING TABLE.
NOTHING WAS/IS EVER GOING TO MAKE THE UNIONISTS TRUST THE NATIONALIST. HOW CAN THEY - A NATIONALIST WANT THE REUNIFICATION OF IRELAND WHICH UNIONISTS ARE HELL-BENT ON PRESERVING THE UN LAWFUL UNION.
THE ONLY THING THAT I WANT IS THE FREEDOM FOR MY PEOPLE AND TO ESCAPE THE SHACKLES OF BRITSH IMPERIALISM WHICH WE HAVE BEEN FORCED UNDER FOR GOD KNOWS HOW LONG. IF THAT CAN BE ACHIEVED THROUGH PEACFUL MEANS THEN SO BE IT, BUT IF NOT THEN WAR IS THE ONLY OPTION.
SLAN
ADH MÓR ORT!
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If the world of the IRA, Charlie, "standing up for yourself" involves slaughtering non-combatants.
And the IRA chose to bomb civilian targets, *without* the support of the vast majority of nationalists north and south of the border.
This is the undeniable reality - you can agree with what the IRA did, but you can't seriously claim that they had the support of the majority of the community, or even a significant minority.
You can romanticise their actions into a war, but no-body on the planet outside the hard-core republican community thinks it was.
There are plenty of examples of former British colonies achieving independence without resorting to a terror campaign - the 6 counties could have achieved the same, but we'll never know because a small minority of extremists decided they had the right to murder for their political ends.
> these are the type of things that happen in a war
No, planting bombs in a shopping street are the type of things that IRA members decided to do, and which had predictable consequences - civilians were slaughtered.
I posted a question a few days ago here - what significant concession does the Good Friday agreement represent that hadn't already been conceeded by the British in the Sunningdale agreement in 1973? No suggestions yet. 35 years of slaughter by extremists who had no democratic support, and we've still got what the democratic politicians achieved three decades ago.
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Hi Charlie,
Notice how you can't come up with one single concession that the Provisional IRA have won from the British?
In every discussion about Northern Ireland, somebody eventually whines "What about what the British did?", as if that in some way justifies the IRA killing a 3 year old child in Warrington. It didn't.
The Provisional IRA are not the Old IRA - the Old IRA didn't slaughter civilians by bombing shopping streets.
Was the Ulster plantation a historical injustice? Yes.
HOwever, the plantation immigrants threw the Catholics off their land *400* years ago. Calling for their descendants to be repatriated is as absurd as calling for the 50 million Irish descendents in the USA and Australia to be repatriated to Ireland and give the land back to the native americans and aboriginals.
Again, it's plain historical fact that many countries evolved from British colonies into independent democracies without a terrorist campaign. I personally think we'd be closer to a unitary irish state today if the Provisional IRA hadn't slaughtered hundreds of civilians - that's just my opinion.
But we'll never know how it might have turned out, because a small group of extremists with no democratic mandate decided that they had the right to slaughter their political "enemies".
The Provisional IRA never had the support of the people of Ireland, the vast majority of whom are, and always were, revolted by the Provisional's actions.
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Hi Charlie,
You still can't name one thing the Provisional IRA has achieved, despite all the murders over the years.
And by the way, you *have* been talking about the Provisional IRA - see your posting regarding Margaret Thatcher, and bombing London, among others. That wasn't Michael Collins, you know.
<sarcasm alert> I'm happy to hear you're in favour of forced repatriation of the 1 million Unionists whose families have been in Ireland for 400 years. I assume that you'll be packing your bags for Norman France unless you can prove that you yourself have 100% pure celtic blood. Please provide DNA-test proof or purchase your RyanAir ticket.
I won't address your incorrect comments about the Israeli settlements or Australian convict immigration - I just don't have the time, and more importantly, couldn't be bothered!
As for intimidation from Orange Order marches, the UDA thugs, Loyalist Paramilitaries, and the sheer religious bigotry from certain unionists who just hate catholics - all that is undeniably true.
The question is - what is the best way to resolve this? A small group of extremists thought they had the right to bomb and murder civilians. But the Provisional IRA achieved nothing over 35 years apart from thousands of families losing fathers, sons, brothers, mothers, sisters, daughters.
The Provisional IRA weren't forced into it - Britain wasn't a fascist dictatorship state - there was always the democratic path - but they *choose* to kill for their political ends.
It's pointless slaughter for nothing in 2005, and it has been every year since they started in 1969.
And at no stage did the Provisional IRA have the support of the majority of the Irish People, or anything close to even a significant minority.
That was my final contribution - Regards and good luck.
James
[deleted]
Charlie you seem like reasonable decent fellow after all ;)
Have a look here to find better debating - www.irish-nationalism.net
Turn off the caps why don't you. What are you - Ian Paisley?!
The IRA were, are, and will continue to be a necessary evil. I think bombings which take human life can never be condoned, yet I also think their cause is a valiant and just one.
Under the concept of a 'Just war' presented by the Catholic Church, the IRA have every moral right to take up arms. A cultural genocide, the British tried to eliminate an entire way of life, right down to language abnd religion. They tried to destroy a people into subservience. The IRA are fighting for what belongs to the Irish peoples'. They have a legitimate chance of victory. I would say that surrender is not an option for the Irish, whereas withdrawal (However large a blow it would deal to British pride) is a very real alternative. NI is now 45% Catholic. The land was taken from the Irish, 800 years of domination, and still treated as second class citizens. All this adds up to a "Just" cause.
As far as I'm concerned, the IRA did what anyone would have done under the circumstances, they fought back. Fire with fire. The British have a inane concept that they call 'Empire'. In reality the British Empire is nothing more than a few Pacific Isles and a half-dozen or so countries with very symbolic ties to the Crown. The North of Ireland is only under the British cloud today because of the pompous and arrogant nature of the powers-that-be in London.
The IRA itself uses/used terrorist tactics... but that doesn't make them terrorists. Think about it. Say you're a man in Bagdhad and the US invades. You don't understand what's happening other than the fact that you want foreign soldiers off your soil. What do you do? Do you pick up a 30 year old russian gun and meet the US soldiers in the field of battle? NO! You DO WHAT YOU CAN! You snipe from buildingtops. You assemble bombs. You move in the shadows. THIS IS THE NEW NATURE OF WAR. There will never be another WWI... seeing the enemy face-to-face is virtually obsolete. Guerilla warfare IS warfare from now on.
What were the IRA supposed to do? Outnumbered and outsupplied by the British... normal warfare and street battles would have been suicide. They did what they could do. They are fighting for a just cause, and a cause they'll die for. How many British soldiers are willing to die for six counties on an Island they're not even from?! Not too many I'm guessing. I'd say MOST IRA men wouldn't give it a second thought if their own death meant a unified Ireland. They'd do it no question.
ps I'm neither Irish nor English, Im Australian... I've been to both countries, met both peoples and studied the situation at University. My background is Italian.
pps The bit in this movie where Brad Pitt shoots out the guys kneecap... OUCH!
You need to learn a bit of history there alastairward. If it wasn't for the (p)IRA, there wouldn't even be municiple home rule. Raise tensions? ARE YOU CRAZY, when the IRA stopped doing anything in the late 60s the tensions, the riots the violence against Catholics was at its worst, and now that the provos have disarmed guess what happened WORST RIOTS IN 10 YEARS. The IRA were the only thing keeping the loyalists from open violence. Now that the IRA disarmed the loyalist paramiltaries stopped even faking to be on ceasefire. I'm not defending many recent IRA tactics, but clearly as a whole the IRA is nessicary as long as loyalists feel the need to attack Catholics. T
he guerilla warfare practised by the IRA was designed to
1. kill RUC (because they were basicly a state-sponsered loyalist paramilitary)
2. kill British Army (in order to get there families to demand for them to come home, this was only an official policy after bloody sunday and the british army were designated a main target instead of just people in the way)
3. make the 6 counties ungovernable (this is were 'terrorism' tactics were used, the purpose of these are to force the british govt/6 counties govt to negotiate, england was attacked when sinn fein started negotiating because they stopped caring about NI, these have been the most successful in forcing the NI govt and British govt to comprimise, free derry, although not alone, got municiple home rule, and some basic voting rights, attacks on civilians on England forced the british govt the the table etc).
From: charliebaileygates (Sun Jun 19 2005 13:54:22 )
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"As for the agreement itself it basically states that the Rep of Ireland will give up its right to NI and in exchange should the majority ever vote for a united Ireland thats what will happen. Something like that never would have been agreed upon by unionists ever without everything that has gone before."
The 'constitution' of Northern Ireland: the Government of Ireland Act (1922) states categorically that, Northern Ireland shall remain a part of the United Kingdom for as long as the people of Northern Ireland wish it.
The Good Friday Agreement merely re-stated that.
The Unionists weren't stupid. Ian Paisley was. He split the Unionists and played to their paranoia.
"Especially since its more like 750,000 unionists and shrinking in comparison to Catholics all the time."
More like 900,000. And, as the 2001 Census clearly showed, the Roman Catholic birth rate has dropped steadily since 1921. It is now very close to the national average, and to the birth rate of the various Protestant peoples.
Added to that is the fact that roughly one in three Roman Catholics in NI desire to remain in the United Kingdom, despite the particular political party they vote for during local and national elections. Opinion polls over the years have shown this. The lowest percentage of Roman Catholics I have seen that responded that they would desire NI to remain part of the UK, was 20%. The highest figures have been 29%, 30% and 32%.
In contrast, the highest percentage of Protestants that say they favour splitting from the UK and joining with the Republic of Ireland, was 8%. Its usually closer to 2%.
"Also if you read what I said above the problem is not with those people being there or not having 100% celtic blood as you put it.Its with their insistance that a part of our country remain under British control which is all the more strange since Britain don't even want them."
I don't understand what you're saying here. Britain is an island - not a political entity. Please explain further.
"My point was that for a long time the IRA was both necessary and supported."
While the IRA was never "necessary".. unless you are talking about 1916, when it was a different world.. it was certainly supported. Especially after Bloody Sunday.
"Britain put people in a position where this was the only option.Thats pretty poor on their part."
Again - Britain is an island. How was that island capable of putting anyone in any "position"?
People who desired a United Ireland always had choice: they could vote for the Nationalist Party.
"The unionists are just not giving up even though they know they should."
Give up what? Their political ideology? Why should they give that up? Why are you not asking the Republicans or nationalists to give up their political ideology. What you are saying is completely illogical.
Should the Democrats or the Republican Party in the USA give up their political ideologies? Should Labour or the Conservative Party give up their political ideologies?
What I know, as a unionist, is that I should endeavour to NOT give up. I will continue to support the Union through democratic means.
"The country should be re-united by right"
Why? Ireland was never united EVER, until it was added to the Union in 1801. The closest Ireland ever came to being one single entity - one country - was when Brian Boru united most of the tribes and clans against the Vikings around the year 1000 AD... around the time of the Battle of Hastings.
The people in Northern Ireland don't want to split from the United Kingdom. Do you simply disregard THEIR right?
"and the unionists have to realise they are in Ireland."
Eh?
[deleted]
by - sbhoju (Thu Sep 15 2005 07:24:41 )
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"The IRA were, are, and will continue to be a necessary evil. I think bombings which take human life can never be condoned, yet I also think their cause is a valiant and just one."
By that logic, the cause of the UVF and the UDA is also a valiant and just one.
The IRA are NOT "necessary", and you'll find that the overwhelming majority of people in Northern Ireland agree with that sentiment. That is the reason they have stopped their bombing campaign and, apparently, decommissioned their weapons.
"Under the concept of a 'Just war' presented by the Catholic Church, the IRA have every moral right to take up arms."
No - they don't.
"A cultural genocide, the British tried to eliminate an entire way of life, right down to language abnd religion. They tried to destroy a people into subservience."
Two wrongs do not make a right. That is exactly what the IRA have been trying to do for the past 35 years.
"The IRA are fighting for what belongs to the Irish peoples'."
As an Irish person, I have what belongs to me, thanks.
"They have a legitimate chance of victory."
They have no hope.
"I would say that surrender is not an option for the Irish,"
"The Irish"? The vast majority of us don't want ANY fighting. There is no reason for surrender because we are not at war.
"whereas withdrawal (However large a blow it would deal to British pride) is a very real alternative."
I doubt very much that you'll get the Irish people to withdraw!
"NI is now 45% Catholic."
40.3% actually. The 2001 Census put the figure at somewhere around 43% - by religious *background*.
"The land was taken from the Irish, 800 years of domination, and still treated as second class citizens. All this adds up to a "Just" cause."
Actually, the land was taken from the Irish by the Gaels - nearly 2,000 years of domination.
"As far as I'm concerned, the IRA did what anyone would have done under the circumstances, they fought back. Fire with fire."
... so that obviously makes it OK, in your mind, that the UVF and the UDA also "fight back".
"The British have a inane concept that they call 'Empire'."
There is no British Empire any more. There is the United Kingdom, and there is the Commonwealth.
"The North of Ireland is only under the British cloud today because of the pompous and arrogant nature of the powers-that-be in London."
No - it is British because that's the way the people of Northern Ireland want it.
"The IRA itself uses/used terrorist tactics... but that doesn't make them terrorists. Think about it."
I've thought about it all my life here in Northern Ireland. They are terrorists.
"Say you're a man in Bagdhad and the US invades. You don't understand what's happening other than the fact that you want foreign soldiers off your soil. What do you do? Do you pick up a 30 year old russian gun and meet the US soldiers in the field of battle? NO! You DO WHAT YOU CAN! You snipe from buildingtops. You assemble bombs. You move in the shadows. THIS IS THE NEW NATURE OF WAR. There will never be another WWI... seeing the enemy face-to-face is virtually obsolete. Guerilla warfare IS warfare from now on."
Again - by your reckoning, the UVF and the UDA are also not terrorists. They are merely defending their territory.
"They are fighting for a just cause, and a cause they'll die for."
Let's hope they do just that then - die.
"How many British soldiers are willing to die for six counties on an Island they're not even from?! Not too many I'm guessing."
1,111 members of the security forces - 753 of them in the British Army, from the year 1969 until the year 2001, have given their lives to protect the people of Northern Ireland.
"I'd say MOST IRA men wouldn't give it a second thought if their own death meant a unified Ireland. They'd do it no question."
The definition of a fanatic.
"ps I'm neither Irish nor English, Im Australian... I've been to both countries, met both peoples and studied the situation at University. My background is Italian."
You need to study more then.
"pps The bit in this movie where Brad Pitt shoots out the guys kneecap... OUCH!"
Think about that then. The Provisional IRA have killed more Roman Catholics than any other organisation since the Troubles began. They also torture and murder Irish people. Their favourite method of 'punishment' was kneecapping. This varied from smashing peoples' kneecaps to a pulp with spiked clubs, to shooting out the kneecap (from behind, as the exit wound is usually larger than the entry wound). Their latest method of punishment was coined "Crucifixion" - they would lay out their victims on their own lawn, like Christ on the cross, and put bullets through their wrists and ankles.
Nothing "valiant" or "just" about it.
THAT is the reality of your precious Provisional IRA.
im going to be blunt here an i hope i dont offend anyone but here it goes.i dont think anyone in the ROI has the right to have a go at catholics in the north who feel angry about the british.its ok for you lot cos your 3 generations free from the british but the people in the north got a raw deal.now the facts are this simple,northern ireland isnt british and the soldiers and the goverment have no right to be there,give it back to ireland so the country can be united again.irish state with irish law,thats the only solution for peace.jesus is it fair that people who are native to the north should have to campaign for equal rights in thier own country against settlers who arnt even irish,and a protestant goverment that protects these invaders.i know what some of you are thinking,that this is the year 2006 and my opinion is dated.well it is 2006 so do the right thing and give it back,the british had there day let the irish have theres.and in responce to the main question i think the IRA arnt terrorists there just want back whats thiers.its easy to call the IRA terrorists cos they dont have the convience of having the tax payer pay for the army like the british.
michael collins
bobby sands
there the names of true patriots and martyrs
Michael Collins? Would this be the Michael Collins that was killed by the IRA?
shareTo carcass65
"im going to be blunt here an i hope i dont offend anyone but here it goes.i dont think anyone in the ROI has the right to have a go at catholics in the north who feel angry about the british.its ok for you lot cos your 3 generations free from the british but the people in the north got a raw deal."
On the contrary - I think we got the best part of the deal. :)
"now the facts are this simple,northern ireland isnt british"
Whoa .. hang on there Tex! Northern Ireland is, in fact, British. It is part of the United Kingdom. The taxes collected from its people go to the British Exchequer. In return, we get loads of money pumped into our economy, as well as the other rights afforded to citizens of the other three constituent countries (England, Scotland and Wales), such as road maintenence, free health care, social services etc.
"and the soldiers and the goverment have no right to be there,"
Actually, according to the Government of Ireland Act, 1920, our government has every right to be here. Our soldiers also, as an extension of that government, have every right to be here to help protect its citizens - be they Roman Catholic, Protestant, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Athiest or Satanist.
"give it back to ireland so the country can be united again."
In which century was Ireland ever 'united' as a consolidated country with its own government structure please?
If you can answer that, I might be persuaded to let you join us 'again'.
"irish state with irish law,thats the only solution for peace."
I'm not too sure about that. In fact, thinking about it logically, that would probably be the worst case scenario in term of desiring peace just at the minute.
Let's extend your scenario: We'll assume that by "Irish state with Irish law" you mean Irish republic state and law, to the exclusion of British state and law.
OK, so let's also ignore the fact that the Republic of Ireland will have swollen in terms of population by 150% or so (pop of Republic = ~4 million; pop of Northern Ireland = ~ 1.7 million), and with very little extra in the way of natural resources.
We'll also ignore the fact that, as economically successful as the Republic of Ireland has been over the last ten years or so (and good on 'em!) they are in no way in the same league as the United Kingdom, which has the 4th or 5th largest economy in the world. We'll ignore the fact that this would lead to increased poverty, and an increased pverty gap, which would lead to restlessness just like we had that the end of the 1960s in NI.
We'll ignore the fact that, ever since the last industrial revolution, combined with the damage the IRA campaign has done to foriegn investment and business, and added to the fact that NI has no natural resources other than land and manpower.. we'll ignore that there would be such a drain on the economy of this new 32-county state ON TOP of the fact that the population has suddenly swollen by 150%.
Let's consdier the people themselves - thrown into a 32-county state: Around one million of them (probably 600-700 thousand adults) would have been thrown into a state that they DON'T WANT via an UNDEMOCRATIC process! Do you really want to examine what their reaction would be to that?
Let's take your own arguments that you make in your last paragraph: We'll assume that support for the UVF has swollen under these circumstances.
And the UVF "aren't terrorists" - they "just want back what's theirs"!
You, my friend, appear to want to exhange one percieved nightmare with a very real nightmare.
"jesus is it fair that people who are native to the north should have to campaign for equal rights in thier own country"
I don't have to campaign for equal rights in my native land: I've already got the most rigidly policed (policed as in policies by the way) civil rights protection in thw western world.
"against settlers who arnt even irish"
Against who..? Who are these settlers who "aren't even Irish" that you're talking about?
"and a protestant goverment that protects these invaders."
Where is this "protestant government" that you speak of? Are you talking about another country now..?
"i know what some of you are thinking,that this is the year 2006 and my opinion is dated.well it is 2006 so do the right thing and give it back,the british had there day let the irish have theres."
Being both British and Irish, I have not only my day, but my decade and my lifetime too. Thanks for your concern though.
"and in responce to the main question i think the IRA arnt terrorists there just want back whats thiers."
You won't mind then if the UVF murder a member of your family presumably? After all, they are just protecting what's theirs.
"its easy to call the IRA terrorists cos they dont have the convience of having the tax payer pay for the army like the british."
Its easy to call them terrorists because they are a minority of fanatics who refused for so long to enter into democratic process and instead decided to murder people in order to bring attention to the concerns they had.
Don't get me wrong: people had genuine concerns in the past. But that is no reason to murder so many innocent people.
so uneducated. The land you call Ulster will one day be reunited. Catholic birthrates are soaring. I mean I know the Brits in the Six Counties outnumber Republicans now (thanks to the Famine, in which not a single Catholic was helped by the fascists) An Irishman assisting Brit military is a traitor.
Tiocfaidh Ar La
navykurt:
"have you looked at a map lately? n.i. is most definately on the island of ireland and not britian."
Have you looked at a map recently? Northern Ireland is definitely a part of the United Kingdom and not of the Republic of Ireland.
While we're at it, Canada is in America. As is Mexico. Zambia is in Africa.
"I am a meat popsicle."
Indeed.
Better_Red_Than_Dead:
"In response to the OP. I'm a supporter of the I.R.A.
Tiocfaidh ár lá"
Your day has been and gone.
oicasualtiesoioi:
"so uneducated. The land you call Ulster will one day be reunited."
So.. like the United Republic of Ulster then, yeah? So glad you are able to tell me the future like this, what with your education and all that.
"Catholic birthrates are soaring."
Actually, they're slowing down and normalising. Take a look at the statistics some time.
"I mean I know the Brits in the Six Counties outnumber Republicans now (thanks to the Famine, in which not a single Catholic was helped by the fascists) An Irishman assisting Brit military is a traitor."
There's few things inaccurate about the above.. which I'm surprised at, considering you had seemed so judgemental about others' education. To start with, the number of "Brits" in Northern Ireland outnumbers the Republicans because the Republicans are a subset of the "Brits". Whether they like it or not (and they don't), Republicans born in Northern Ireland to Northern Irish parents are actually British.
As for the Famine, plenty of Roman Catholics were helped by charitable organisations and bodies such as the Quakers (who asked nothing in return for their aid). The British Queen, at the time, gave the largest charitable donation known to have been given by any head of state up until that time.
They also helped starving Protestants.
I worked out (a while ago now), given the current birth rates, when there might be a chance that pro-nationalists community might out-number pro-unionists in Northern Ireland... assuming that political ideologies continue to be split roughly along the lines they are now. About a fifth to a third of all Roman Catholics in Northern Ireland are pro-union. About 2% to 8% of all Protestants in Northern Ireland are pro-nationalist. I was generous to the nationalist side because I wanted to work out the earliest possibility. I came to the conclusion, given the parameters above, that it would be some 200 years hence.
I guess you'll be waiting a long time for your United Federation of Ulster or whatever!
carcass65:
"now the facts are this simple,northern ireland isnt british"
I'm afraid I have to inform you that you've got your facts wrong. Northern Ireland is, in fact, British. It is a part of the United Kingdom.
"and the soldiers and the goverment have no right to be there"
The soldiers and government have every right to be here. It was ratified by international agreement, more than once. The latest was by the Belfast Agreement in 1998.
"give it back to ireland so the country can be united again."
Ireland's already got it. You see, Northern Ireland is in the island of Ireland. If you want the country to be united "again", I certainly have no problem with the Republic of Ireland re-joining the UK.
"jesus is it fair that people who are native to the north should have to campaign for equal rights in thier own country against settlers who arnt even irish,and a protestant goverment that protects these invaders."
Who are these "settlers who aren't even Irish"? What is this "Protestant government" you speak of? Who are these "native to the north" and these "invaders"? I think you may have to brush up on your history!
"well it is 2006 so do the right thing and give it back,the british had there day let the irish have theres."
We have it, thanks. And we've got it. There's nobody to "give it back" to.
"and in responce to the main question i think the IRA arnt terrorists there just want back whats thiers. its easy to call the IRA terrorists cos they dont have the convience of having the tax payer pay for the army like the british."
No - it's easy to call the IRA terrorists because when they didn't get what they wanted, so they maimed, killed and destroyed. That's terrorism for you.
[deleted]
[deleted]
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[deleted]
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From: Crossmaglen_Sniper (Mon Jun 6 2005 13:42:22 )
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THE REBUBLICAN MOVEMENT HAS BEEN BOTH VALIANT AND BRAVE THROUGHOUT THE YEARS. ANY GROUP OF UNPAID, POORLY ARMED, POORLY TRAINED, WORKING CLASS PEOPLE WHO TAKE ON THE MIGHT OF THE BRITISH ARMY AND SUCEED HAVE TO BE GOOD. THERE HAVE BEEN SOME MISTAKES AND SETBACKS BUT NOTHING, AND I MEAN NOTHING WILL EVER CRIMINALISE 800 YEARS OF FIGHTING FOR LIBERATION AGAINST THE FOREIGN INVADER.
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Which invader is that? Is it the Celts who arrived in Britain and Ireland a couple of hundred years BC? Is it the Gaels who arrived around 300 AD? Is it the Vikings who settled throughout Ireland and the north of Britain a few hundred years later? Is it the Normans who make up a large proportion of the population of Dublin (look at how common names beginning Fitz- are)? Is it the Planters who arrived (most of them returning home) in the 1700 and 1800s? Is it the French Huguenots who fled persecution from the French Roman Catholics and landed in Ireland?
And don't try to pretend that the IRA are poor, unpaid, *only* working class and poorly trained! They are expertly trained through the international terrorist scene. They draw Social Security from the same British government they hypocritically state they hate, and get funds from other members who pay their weekly dues and commit robberies, extortion and are involved in prostitution, money laundering, protection racketeering and drug dealing. Gerry Adams has some nice Armani suits.
You say "there have been some mistakes"! Have a look at the statistics: the IRA have murdered more people than any other organisation involved in the Troubles. They have murdered more Protestants than any other organisation. They have murdered more Roman Catholics than any other organisation, and they have murdered more children than any other organisation. See www.cain.ulst.ac.uk for the FACTS.
Valiant and brave my arse! They sneak around planting bombs, waiting for a policeman or an army foot patrol to walk past, and explode it remotely. They break into houses and shoot unarmed people dead in front of their wives and children. They blow up innocent shoppers and construction workers. They have no honour.
For crying out loud..... these mistakes you mention - are these the bombings that have murdered many innocents? And I'm not saying that the British Army has been innocent in all of this either.... however, how can murdering people be valiant, on either side?
share[deleted]
[deleted]
i m not sure what was being said by your nemisis, but it is hard for people who had not been oppressed to see why one would fight. African Americans still think their is not enough given in apologies to them although it has been a long time since slavery was around. what happened in the 1900s to african americans and southeast asians in asia is similiar to what happened to catholics in Northern Ireland, hence their belief that socialism is good since it was always capitalists (or the colonialist capitalists back then) that have been putting them down. what has happened is a battle now for catholic's abilities to work in the same factories and go to the same schools, i.e. have the same opportunites that the protestants do, but it is fact that they do not. People such as Ian Paisley have made sure that swift justice occurs to anyone who speaks out against political powers in the area. I apologize for the swearing that has been happening on this website, fore it really is not needed. Its unnecessary and i wish people would stop it. but again, the Irish-Catholics feel that they have been held down for far too long, therefore acted out.
shareI'm not Irish but I'm a bit of a Irish history buff. My question about the IRA premise is that it is my understanding that after the Remembrance Day Bombing in November 1987, the IRA may not have vanished but it certainly took quite a hit and was not active after the incident, or at least not as active. The beginning of the movie began in 1992 when the IRA wasn't exactly active as it used to be. But I'm sure some who is Irish reading this will get angry and reply something nasty to my post.
As for the IRa fighting for independence from England, isn't that what we did in the states in 1776? Good enough for Boston, good enough for Belfast.
FREEDOM, what freedom do they have, .... to have foriegn soldiers policing their streets abusing their people and killing their children..... Ohhh.. thats a lovely bit o freedom!!!!!!!!!
We are but dust and bones......
hoeforabuck:
"FREEDOM, what freedom do they have, .... to have foriegn soldiers policing their streets abusing their people and killing their children..... Ohhh.. thats a lovely bit o freedom!!!!!!!!!"
There are no foreign soldiers policing our streets. Not even the 'soldiers' of the UVF, UDA, IRA and Real IRA are "foreign".
IrelandRaven:
"When?oh that would be when they got back 26 counties,2/3rds of ireland (and it was supposed to be more which is why the IRA split and had a civil war)"
Got back? They took the 26 away.
res_evil:
"what happened in the 1900s to african americans and southeast asians in asia is similiar to what happened to catholics in Northern Ireland"
lol!
You might need to read up about what things were like for African Americans pre-1960.
"what has happened is a battle now for catholic's abilities to work in the same factories and go to the same schools, i.e."
Actually, the Roman Catholic Church was quite adamant (and still is) that Roman Catholics should go to separate schools. The fear had been that non-Catholics and the non-partisan state schooling system would "corrupt" Catholics.
"have the same opportunites that the protestants do, but it is fact that they do not."
No - they often have *more* opportunities than Protestants.
There can never be peace in ireland until the foreign, oppresive British presence is removed leaving all irish people as a unit to control their own affairs and determine their own desires as a soverign people,free in mind and body,separate and distinct phsically,culturally and economically.The IRA are hero's protecting the victims of british oppresion.
shareThe IRA arent an army?lets see......They had an army council,soldiers,commanders,a political wing,weapons(not any more) and they fought against an army,and they kept law and order in catholic areas(note the past tense)
how are they terrorists?they killed "innocent" people?on what occasions?deliberately? sure they killed british soldiers and police men,but thats what you do in a war
their recent actions have been a disgrace,in defending the mccartney traitors/lyers/bullies instead of giving them what they deserve...(ill let you guess what that is)
Trust me im no IRA supporter after what theyve done around here (and i wont get into it)
but trust me they are(or at least were) an army
To be honest this may seem really offence but i really dont see any diffrence between Hamas or the IRA after all they are both fight tyranny just on different sides on the earth .
share
The IRA is a TERRORIST organisation. Arguably the worst in Europe Make no mistake about that. They would have you believe that they are "freedom fighting" army against a brutal "occupier"
I have agree they have very good P.R. They have tried and suceeded in many case in styling themselves like an army/intelligence organisation but really they are common, criminal, murdering thugs. They play about with words and semantics. They don't use emotive language preferring to describe themselves as "volunteers". They are terrorists. An assasination/murder is an "operation". They are lead by an army council/council of war they have "station commanders" just like an intelligence organisation. Don't believe the hype they are no different from Al-qaeda, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, ETA, 17th November etc and many more.
You haven't really justified what is so bad about them.. Can you provide more indepth information with some sort of reference? I've tried reading more in depth about the situation over there, but everything I read is horribly biased one way or the other.
shareThey (and ETA) are way different to the islamic groups you have mentioned, even tony blair has said as much.
shareIslamic terrorism differs from that of ETA and the IRA, in that organisations related to the al-qaeda movement fight against a non-existent enemy the supposed "infidels", behind all their anger and obsession over fighting in the name of allah is there actually any logic? i dont think so, anyone who fights in the name of a holy war and is prepared to die in the process is insane. The IRA could be compared to al-qaeda in relation to the conflict between protestants and catholics, as i have even seen examples in this message board of supporters of the IRA referring to events that happened centuries ago, very similar to the islamic terrorists in the sense that they speak of a war "against oppression" and "fighting for freedom".
However i believe the ira to be politically motivated like ETA. I support neither side of the violent conflict of NI, the terrorism and violence has only prolonged any political discussions which could have ultimately lead to independance, all of the killings of both northern irish and english were in vain as it has accomplished nothing to date, the IRA have supposedly surrendered and that means that they have lost, they have achieved nothing and sinn fein have tarnished themselves with their involvement, because contrary to the pedantic statements of McAdams, sinn fein is definitely not a "legitimate political party".
I agree with the idea of the IRA, which is get England out of Ireland. But I in no way shape or form support the killing of innocent women and children, if they went about it a different way I would support them 100%. I hope peace can be made in Ireland, Blair it seems is trying, when he first got elected he publicly said sorry to Ireland for the famine.
You shoot me in a dream you better wake up and apologize.
~Mr. White
I agree it's time our forces withdrew but that raises a few questions, how would NI govern itself, what would it do about the violence between the protestants and catholics, the ORIGINAL purpose of the british army was to guard the catholic minority. Also over the years sinn fein have proved themselves untrustworthy, and any they should be left out of any political talks, as soon as sufficient checks are made to ensure that the IRA and the other provisional groups don't have the means to carry out attacks, then the british forces could withdraw, it's a shame that IRA felt it was necessary to blow so many people up, maybe the withdrawl could have taken place long before if NI had been more peaceful.
shareI agree, I hope that there is stability one day.
You shoot me in a dream you better wake up and apologize.
~Mr. White
LostSurvivor-No17 5 days ago (Fri Oct 28 2005 03:13:06 )
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I agree it's time our forces withdrew but that raises a few questions, how would NI govern itself, what would it do about the violence between the protestants and catholics, the ORIGINAL purpose of the british army was to guard the catholic minority. Also over the years sinn fein have proved themselves untrustworthy, and any they should be left out of any political talks, as soon as sufficient checks are made to ensure that the IRA and the other provisional groups don't have the means to carry out attacks, then the british forces could withdraw, it's a shame that IRA felt it was necessary to blow so many people up, maybe the withdrawl could have taken place long before if NI had been more peaceful.
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Our forces cannot withdraw from our own country. You cannot withdraw British forces from Northern Ireland, from Wales, from Scotland, nor from England.
For fifty years Northern Ireland governed itself. They did a fine job too. The largest drydock and ship building factory in the world, with the largest cranes to boot. The largest linen industry in the world. Consistantly twice the GNP (that's basically spending power) and twice the exports compared with the Republic of Ireland during that period. The same number of houses built after the Second World War as were built in the RoI.. only we had half the population.
Northern Ireland was the first region of the country to have devolved government. Scotland and Wales have followed suit, while NI's government was suspended in 1972, after the Prime Minister of NI resigned.
You are absolutely correct about the army being *reinforced* in NI to protect the Roman Catholic encalves. These areas were surrounded by, particularly in Belfast, larger areas of loosely Protestant people. When both sides started attacking eachother, the Protestants were clearly in the majority, and the Roman Catholic people were clearly at a disadvantage. My hat goes off to those soldiers and our local police force, who played piggy-in-the-middle (no pun intended!) for so long in flashpont areas and during rioting.
But the IRA didn't want that. In a meeting in Dublin, the IRA decided to stop the campaign of terror. Two-thirds of the membership voted for this. The other third broke away and formed the Provisional IRA and Sinn Féin. They didn't want the British Army to protect the people - they wanted to control it themselves. They provoked the army. They provoked the people. They made the people live in fear, and kept them silent with threats and murders and took their money, which they still do today, with their protection racketeering. The army acted rashly in some circumstances, because their comrades were being targetted by these so-called Catholics. Catholics became the perceived enemy and protected the terrorists.
Now, after 35 years, the IRA has apparently got rid of the vast majority of their weaponry. They claim to be embracing democracy and peace. Gerry Adams and Martin Maguiness have apparently resigned from the IRA Army Council. But after thirty years of rejectionism, antisocial behavior, vigilantism, racketeering, a mafia-style criminal empire, murders and destruction, its not hard to understand why the majority of the people are very wary of Sinn Féin/IRA and don't trust a word they say.
I for one, hope they have changed for the better, and will continue to do so.
One question I ask though is this: the Provisional IRA broke away from the 'Official' IRA to continue their campaign. They bullied their way to the conference table, and got concession after concession. By the same token, the 'Real' IRA and the Continuity IRA broke away from the Provisional IRA and they don't accept or support the Good Friday Agreement or the 'peace process'.
Will we have to suffer another thirty years of the same from those organisations until such time as the government yields also to their demands every time they murder or bomb (read: spit their dummy out)?
From: finnzilla 5 days ago (Thu Oct 27 2005 14:10:22 )
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I agree with the idea of the IRA, which is get England out of Ireland. But I in no way shape or form support the killing of innocent women and children, if they went about it a different way I would support them 100%. I hope peace can be made in Ireland, Blair it seems is trying, when he first got elected he publicly said sorry to Ireland for the famine.
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I don't think he apologised *for* the famine. After all - it wasn't his fault, nor anyone else's. He apologised for the attitude of disregard, and the lack of support during those very hard years.
By the way, England isn't "in Ireland". last time I looked, England was in England. Therefore England can't "get out of Ireland".
There are Irish people in Ireland. Those people in the Republic of Ireland are described as "Irish" by nationality, as well as by culture and history etc. Those people in Northern Ireland are described as "British" by their nationality. Some of those people would rather it were different.. which is fair enough. Most of the people like it the way it is though.
well said setanta. It always gets me how people who go on about the sitution in nothern ireland never seem to realise that the majority of the people there are protestant and want to be part of the UK.
shareTrue, the protestant majority are in favour of unionism and as such NI should remain part of the united kingdom, btw when i said forces should withdraw i should have made clear that i meant cease military activity, of course there is no reason why they shouldn't have bases in NI just like any other UK location.
shareby - scvirus (Sat Oct 1 2005 20:23:07 )
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You need to learn a bit of history there alastairward. If it wasn't for the (p)IRA, there wouldn't even be municiple home rule.
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Incorrect. Actually, in effect, it was the IRA that brought down our home rule. Northern Ireland, from the time that the Free State was created, was the first region of the United Kingdom to have its own devolved government.
In fact, it wasn't even the IRA that put a stop to that - it was basically Ian Paisley.
"Raise tensions? ARE YOU CRAZY, when the IRA stopped doing anything in the late 60s the tensions, the riots the violence against Catholics was at its worst,"
.. and the violence and riots against the Protestants were what.. non-existant?
Stop talking through your arse.
"and now that the provos have disarmed guess what happened WORST RIOTS IN 10 YEARS. The IRA were the only thing keeping the loyalists from open violence."
Rubbish. The reason why the rioting escalated was because the Civil Right Movement was infiltrated by the IRA. Why do you think that so many Protestant people, who were actually members of NICRA (Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association) left it? Instead of a campaign for equal rights and recognition of the difficulties of a particular group of people, the IRA turned it into a campaign for a 32-county socialist republic.
"Now that the IRA disarmed the loyalist paramiltaries stopped even faking to be on ceasefire."
Who said they were faking? You? As far as I could tell, the organisation that announced a ceasefire had stopped, except that they got involved in an 'internal' war.
"I'm not defending many recent IRA tactics, but clearly as a whole the IRA is nessicary as long as loyalists feel the need to attack Catholics."
And by that logic, the UVF and the UDA are necessary as long as republicans feel the need to attack Protestants.
"The guerilla warfare practised by the IRA was designed to
1. kill RUC (because they were basicly a state-sponsered loyalist paramilitary)"
No - they were the legitimate police force of Northern Ireland.
"2. kill British Army (in order to get there families to demand for them to come home, this was only an official policy after bloody sunday and the british army were designated a main target instead of just people in the way)"
You mean those same British soldiers that were reinforced in Northern Ireland in order to protect the Roman Catholics from the much larger, surounding Protestant areas..? Those ones? The same ones that were given tea and biscuits on the Falls Road by Roman Catholics?
"3. make the 6 counties ungovernable (this is were 'terrorism' tactics were used,"
There's no need for the single quotes around the word terrorism. Terrorism is terrorism is terrorism.
"the purpose of these are to force the british govt/6 counties govt to negotiate,"
The British government AND the Northern Ireland government (Northern Ireland happens to contain six counties - we CAN all count you know!) were constantly attempting to change the situation for the better. Nothing short of a 32-county socialist republic was good enough for the Provisional IRA. That is why it split from the Official IRA in 1969.
Now we have the Provisional IRA becoming less fanatical, and more embracing of democratic means to their end, and we have the 'Real' IRA and the Continuity IRA fanatics splitting off from the PIRA.
History repeats itself.
"england was attacked when sinn fein started negotiating because they stopped caring about NI, these have been the most successful in forcing the NI govt and British govt to comprimise,"
Yet again you are in error. The British government and the Northern Ireland government had attempted to right many wrongs. For example, when the Free State was set up, and Northern Ireland formed its government, there were 3,000 places offered by statute for members of the police force - renamed from the Royal Irish Constabulary to the Royal Ulster Constabulary - 2,000 or so of which were quickly filled. Very few Roman Catholics applied for the remaining positions. Having left the jobs open for a while in attempt to attract more Catholics into the force, they ultimately had to fill the positions with people who were willing to apply. Attempts were made to attract Roman Catholics into the police during the 1970s, which the IRA thwarted by a campaign of intimidation and murder: Catholics were afraid to join. This played nicely into the IRA's hands, so that they could call the discrimination card, even though it was they who brought about that situation.
"free derry, although not alone, got municiple home rule, and some basic voting rights, attacks on civilians on England forced the british govt the the table etc)."
The people of Northern Ireland always had voting rights. The elections were modelled on the English system. The situation regarding "one man, one vote" was brought about by the fact that, as in the English system, business owners could register a vote for each business they owned. This was changed decades ago, thanks to the Northern Ireland government.
The person who is responsible for bringing Sinn Féin/IRA to the negotiating table (even though the whole thing had already been negotiated and accepted back in 1920), was John Hume of the SDLP.
You need to learn a bit of history, scvirus.
by - adam_the_hatter (Sat Nov 26 2005 16:20:07 )
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well said setanta. It always gets me how people who go on about the sitution in nothern ireland never seem to realise that the majority of the people there are protestant and want to be part of the UK.
by - LostSurvivor-No17 (Sun Dec 18 2005 09:42:26 )
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True, the protestant majority are in favour of unionism and as such NI should remain part of the united kingdom, btw when i said forces should withdraw i should have made clear that i meant cease military activity, of course there is no reason why they shouldn't have bases in NI just like any other UK location.
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I agree LostSurvivor. But, while there is still a threat of terrorist activity - whether it be from Loyalist terrorists, or from Republican terrorists - I welcome the reinforcements.
The government plans to cut the number of reinforcements to something around 5,000 by the year 2010 by the way. There are currently something like 13,000 reinforcements based in NI.
When you talk of Protestants though, I would like to say that, according to opinion polls taken over the last few decades (the last one I remember seeing regarding this question was in 1999), there are a large minority of Roman Catholics in Northern Ireland who also support the Union... despite what political party they actually vote for come election time.
Of those polls I have seen that asked a question similar to "would you prefer NI to remain within the UK or to join with the RoI", anything from 20% to 32% of Roman Catholic respondants have replied that they would prefer NI to remain in the UK. For Protestants, the lowest I have seen is 92% and the most is 98% in favour of remaining in the UK.
Also, one can never be sure whether those people are actually Protestant or Roman Catholic.. ie Christian, or whether they are merely from one of those particular backgrounds.
Given those attitudes, you could assume that the minimum percentage of people in Northern Ireland (based on a 44%-56% RC vs Protestant split) would be 60.32% in favour of remaining in the UK in any referendum. The maximum would be 68.96% in favour of remaining in the UK.
[deleted]
big fan of the IRA right here...british enter land, take it, and don't expect anyone to ever want the land back? please. give me a break. IF someone comes to my hometown...takes it...they better expect an outbreak of anti-whoever/whatever they are. I don't believe the IRA is wrong for what they are doing. The British have done it forever, taking people's land expecting them not to stand up for themselves afterwards. This is the perfect case and, both unfortunatley and fortunatley, it is hitting them close to home this time.
shareI agree somewhat. I would fight if my land was taken, however I would not try to blow up women and children in the process. To the best of my knowledge Washington and the Continentals did not attack civilians. I see 100% what they are fighting for and believe it's a just cause, I just wish they would do it in a better way.....if thats possible.
You shoot me in a dream you better wake up and apologize.
~Mr. White
see its a little more complicated than that though see in northern ireland there are a large amount of what are called unionists who wish for their patch of land to remain part of the U.K. now for most of the 20th centuary if not all of it unionists had all the power being the majority, and important figures such as mill owners where all unionist and felt that employing catholics was a bad idea becuase they where thought to be all unloyal to the crown. now a protestant woman i know who worked in one of theese mills on the springfield road said that not a single catholic worked there, now while she didnt aprove of this if she had said anything she would of lost her job. now eventually people in general where fed up of this descrimination so inspired by the black civil rights marches catholics and protestants alike marched for equality but where beaten down by unionists mobs and the RUC this is when the army came over '69 to help protect the marchers and catholics who were being burnt out fo there homes, needless to say the IRA which was gaining in strength started to shoot soldiers and unionist paramilitaries started shooting people too, and of corse the army shot people aswell in the next 30 years of violence and terror no body won and all sides have commited terrible atrocities. while i personally agree with what republicans want i also accept that many terrible murders have been commited by the IRA and are no more exusable than any other murders commited
sharethe_famous_alexeh:
"now eventually people in general where fed up of this descrimination so inspired by the black civil rights marches catholics and protestants alike marched for equality but where beaten down by unionists mobs and the RUC this is when the army came over '69 to help protect the marchers and catholics who were being burnt out fo there homes,"
Not bad until you got to about there. You see, most of the Protestants who marched with the Civil Right movement over here were also unionists. So it's a bit misleading to suggest that they were beaten by unionists. Also, the RUC beat back crowds of Loyalists in the time.
The Army was already here. They reinforced the RUC, in order to help protect the communities from each other - in the case of Roman Catholics, being at that time the much smaller community in Belfast, that was of paramount concern. Had an actual civil war broke out, it might not have went so well for the smaller number.
Protestants were, by the way, burnt out of their homes also.
"needless to say the IRA which was gaining in strength"
Actually, they weren't. The biggest complaint about the IRA was that it stood for "I Ran Away". This is one of the reasons the reinforcement from the Army were welcomed by Roman Catholics.
"started to shoot soldiers and unionist paramilitaries"
There were no "unionist paramilitaries". I think you mean loyalist paramilitaries.
"started shooting people too"
In fact, the loyalist paramilitaries had started to shoot people at a time when the IRA (pre-1970 split) had not been particularly active. Areas like the Shankill set up defence organisations to protect themselves against rioting nationalists (aka "Catholics").
What??? The British have done it forever?? British Imperialism has not lasted forever. Besides, we were invaded by many people before, no one has a go at the Italians for what the Romans did, or the Scandanavians for the Vikings....!
There are people in Northern Ireland who WANT to stay a part of the UK - hence why there is fighting.
And as for your comment 'british enter land, take it and don't expect anyone to ever what the land back' - what do you call Iraq? Americans take the land, stay there without any hope of leaving - ah but those fighting against the Americans are terrorists - because why would you fight against the 'land of the free'? lol
You need to read up on your history before you make any more comments on this subject. I will admit that I don't know everything, but you don't.
Some of you have really simplistic views of history, ignorance of same, or disingenuous EXCUSES for the TERRORIST actions of this minority of fanatics.
Some of you, as we say here in Northern Ireland, need to catch a grip!
Res-evil suggests that the "British enter land, take it.." etc. What he doesn't, ironically, realise is that the very same thing happened to his own land.
I'm guessing USA is his country. Should I start supporting a Native-American terrorist organisation to blow the hell out of all you European blow-ins?
What country in the world hasn't had the same thing happen to them? The Romans.. the Byzantines.. the Greeks.. Germany tried it.. the British were the most successful at it - even more so than the Romans!
Besides which, the people who actually lived in Ireland from as far back as pre-history, were called the Pretani. This comes from the Old Welsh word Prydein which in Irish Gaelic is written as Cruthin (or Cruithne). Translated into its literal meaning, it is "Painted people".. on account of how we used to paint our bodies with blue and purple dye (yes - Braveheart.. only it was a few hundred centuries inaccurate). This is cognate with the word Pict.
The Romans you can thank for corrupting the word Pretani (Pretannic) to Britani (Britannia) = British. Claudius Ptolemy described the various tribes of the Britannic Isles.
Before him, the Greek Diodorus Siculus referred to the islands as the Pretannic Isles - the larger of the two main ones was known as Alba (now Britain) and the smaller known as Iris (=Hibernia=Ireland).
I think someone else on this thread has already suggested that two wrongs do not make a right. Just because the ancestors of some of the people of these islands held the greater power and influence, and used it to their advantage CENTURIES AGO, it doesn't mean that fanatics like the IRA have any right to murder and maim people in the 20th and 21st centuries!
Or.. maybe I could say that certain groups are right in suggesting that the USA is the "Great Satan", and they have every right to destroy the decadence that exists, and wipe out the USA (and Western society as a whole).
res_evil:
"big fan of the IRA right here...british enter land, take it, and don't expect anyone to ever want the land back? please. give me a break. IF someone comes to my hometown...takes it...they better expect an outbreak of anti-whoever/whatever they are. I don't believe the IRA is wrong for what they are doing. The British have done it forever, taking people's land expecting them not to stand up for themselves afterwards. This is the perfect case and, both unfortunatley and fortunatley, it is hitting them close to home this time."
So you're a big fan of terrorism. Big deal.
Throughout history, tribes, groups, countries and even people from whole continents have entered land and taken it for themselves. Look at how many countries were involved with North America, once it was 'discovered'. Look at how much of what is now Italy the Romans took over (hint: all of it!). Look at Spain, Portugal, Germany, France. That's just Europe. It's not just the British. The British though, they were (arguably) the most successful and most recent. But then, halfway through the 20th century, the UK let its dominion countries have the choice. Many areas stayed to one degree or other. Most became independent but remained within the Commonwealth.
In any case, I have my land, thanks. I don't need it "back".
You say you "don't believe the IRA is wrong for what they are doing", but neither are the UVF. After all, if someone comes to their hometown... takes it...
They have murdered so many people, how can they not be bad guys? And I know that the British Army have committed some horrible deeds in this fight, but it is severely lessened by the amount the IRA and other groups have done. Since when is bombing people shopping on a Saturday ok? They've done it more than once!
shareTo aquitas_veritas
"I'm sure that this has been said already, but I'll say it again. The rest of the world seems to have forgotten that the IRA is simply fighting for the independence of Ireland. Something they have been doing ever since Britain overran them. Just because America is "friends" with the british (technically I am more british than irish, so I can talk about brits all day long, SO THERE!) everyone here seems to think that since the IRA doesn't have an offical government backing them up, and britain is fighting them, that we should hate them too, and lable them terrorists. For all you who seem to know NOTHING about the situation, study history. The IRA is simply what George Washington would have been if america had lost the revolutionary war. He would have kept fighting, as would his descendants, and would their descendents. And there would be a similiar situation here in "america" today. BUT NOOOOOOO. Since the british and US governments don't like them, the IRA is the bad guys. Damn all you who oppose them out of ignorance."
No - people should hate the IRA because they MURDER and MAIM people and STEAL and run PROTECTION RACKETS etc.
They are labelled terrorists because they ARE terrorists.
As for your over-simplification regarding your comparison with George Washington: you obviously haven't the first clue as to what you are talking about.
You can talk (all day long), yes. But that doesn't mean you know what you're talking about.
Damn all you who SUPPORT them out of ignorance.
And God bless the victims of their attrocities, and the friends and families.. every one.
yes it was called the plantation,because they planted prods over here frum scotland(ulster scots) and diseased the nationalist race in N.I
it was manipulation
and what in the name of good *beep* are you people goin on about saying the british army came over to PROTECT nationalists???i suppose by protect you mean beat shoot and kill?
i wonder why they got rid of the RUC...
To IrelandRaven:
"yes it was called the plantation,because they planted prods over here frum scotland(ulster scots) and diseased the nationalist race in N.I
it was manipulation"
Ignoring the fact that you have a very simplistic view of history, are you advocating Ethnic Cleansing?
Cos it sure sounds like it.
"and what in the name of good *beep* are you people goin on about saying the british army came over to PROTECT nationalists???i suppose by protect you mean beat shoot and kill?"
Read your history books. The British Army was reinforced in Northern Ireland because during riot situations, more often than not, the police were outnumbered by a factor of at least 40 to 1.
On top of this, at the time Belfast had a smaller Roman Catholic community. The Catholic 'ghettos' were surrounded by much larger Protestant 'ghettos', and so Catholic demonstrators and rioters were already at a disadvantage.
"i wonder why they got rid of the RUC..."
They didn't. The RUC was re-branded and re-packaged as part of the Good Friday Agreement (also known as the Belfast Agreement).
Before the troubles, the highest percentage of Roman Catholic members of the police force stood at around 12% (the population of Northern Ireland at that time stood at roughly 38%). Many Catholics didn't join the RUC for one of two reasons: 1) They were intimidated by the IRA - Catholic policemen were also specifically targetted and branded as 'traitors'. 2) Political ideology - many Catholics were nationalists and didn't want to join up with what was essentially an Establishment body, for that would be to legitimise the state they refused to recognise.
"LOL wow wow wow,slow down boy,the IRA never surrendered they disbanded because the leaders are british touts and joined dissidents,which is very bad news"
The Provisional IRA have not disbanded (they "haven't gone away, you know" -- Gerry Adams addressing a crowd of Republicans).
IrelandRaven:
"yes it was called the plantation,because they planted prods over here frum scotland(ulster scots) and diseased the nationalist race in N.I
it was manipulation"
You're seriously suggesting that nationalists are a 'race'?!? And you think that these "Ulster Scots", many of whom we could assume were returning to their ancestral homeland in fact, "diseased" your 'race' of nationalists..? And that Northern Ireland and nationalists even existed in the 1600s and 1700s?
By the way, it wasn't solely Protestants that were planted. Nor was it confined solely to Ulster.
"and what in the name of good *beep* are you people goin on about saying the british army came over to PROTECT nationalists???i suppose by protect you mean beat shoot and kill?"
Let me explain it to you nice and slowly. Rioting was occurring in Northern Ireland. By the time the Army was reinforced here, the Civil Rights thing had already become a Them vs Us situation - one being described in the media as being Protestants and the other as being Catholics. There were indeed large areas, particularly in Belfast - often referred to as 'ghettos' - in which there were almost exclusively one religion or the other. In west Belfast, where much of the rioting was taking place (rioting at the specific time in question, in order to specifically 'relieve' the pressure on the rioters in Derry at the time, and stretch the resources of an exhausted police force), there were large areas of solely Catholics, often surrounded by areas of Protestants.
So, when the police were reinforced by the Army, many Catholics - especially ones who weren't involved in the rioting but who felt besieged nevertheless, welcomed them. They even made them cups of tea and wee buns, and gave them tins of chocolate etc.
The Army's job was to help restore order, and to protect ALL of the people. It worked, for a while.
"i wonder why they got rid of the RUC..."
They didn't. They re-branded, re-badged and reconstituted the police. It's now known as the Police Service of Northern Ireland. The RUC was basically the continuation of the RIC.
LOL wow wow wow,slow down boy,the IRA never surrendered they disbanded because the leaders are british touts and joined dissidents,which is very bad news
shareI support the old IRA that existed before the 1980's as nowadays they are drug dealing criminals that kill the very people they are supposed to be fighting for.I myself am Irish and living in the Republic and from what I have seen the IRA and the splinter groups RIRA,CIRA,PIRA are plain and simple criminals.I do however believe that the older more experienced IRA and Sinn Fein members know that their once proud group of Freedom Fighters have become an organization of thugs,drug dealers,hitman and gangsters but these old men and women can do nothing about it.
--==___ Every Action Has A Reaction __==--
Shoite. Give an example of an IRA volunteer ever being convicted of drug dealing.
shareto say the IRA aren't an army is just ignorant and you obviously dont know the history of ireland. who declared a 32 county republic back in 1916 with the ira army councils backing? the freestaters are the illegitimate army
shareThey are the IRA nobody would say anything about them and it has been in the papers.I also know for a fact an old friend of mine was shot by the IRA because he was dealing hash on one of their dealers turf.
And I said nothing about the IRA not being an army.
They have been in the papers for murdering innocent people and the IRA also offered to KILL the 3 members instead of giving them to the gardaí.
--==___ Every Action Has A Reaction __==--
[deleted]
The movie 'Ressurection Man' is based on the shankill butchers if yer interested.
share[deleted]
[deleted]
How many people posting on this topic are actually from Northern Ireland?
Norn Iron 1 - England 0 Healy you hero!!!
potatoe57 (Tue Feb 14 2006 08:54:13 )
"How many people posting on this topic are actually from Northern Ireland?
Norn Iron 1 - England 0 Healy you hero!!!"
Northern Ireland 3 - 2 Spain! :D
Ha ha ha rangers11, yer teams doing really well eh? Just goes to show, gods a tim afterall, hail hail.
share[deleted]
[deleted]
As an Irishman, and member of the ISRP(Irish Socialist Republican Party), I must say that these Brit loyalists are making me sick at me stomach. The IRA are not a group of terrorists, but rather a group of people seeking to take back the northern 6 counties which rightfully belong to the Republic of Ireland. Ireland should belong to the Irish, seeing as how they've lived there for many a year, long before the British even knew they existed. Lets not forgot too the Brits have tortured, raped, and murdered my people for countless centuries. A true war criminal is not Sadam, but Tony Blair, and all the previous Prime Ministers and the crown of England.
shareHave you thought that Northern Ireland is part of Great Britain and the UK because most of the people there want to be? I suppose you dont give a damn about them. And yes the IRA were a terrorist organisation because they took part in terrorism, even if their aim wasn't brainless, the terrorism part was. They should know Britain will never give into terrorists.
sharebollox to that mate.the real enemy is the crown,the british army and the foriegn settlers.there will never be peace in ireland as long as there is a british precence.ireland should be made a country again.and for the record i am not irish,im a london born catholic with irish blood.up the IRA
shareI finally agree about you with the IRA. Killing them is great training for our troops and special forces, helping make them the best in the world. May terrorism remain, so we have people to hate and to feel good about when we waste em.
share[deleted]
[deleted]
At least they're dying for a valid cause: oil, not some stupid cause like a "united ireland".
share[deleted]
Only thing i can do is hope that a muslim extremist blows you up in the not too distant future. Have a nice taste of your own medicine that you support. See ya dikface.
share[deleted]
[deleted]
To carcass65:
"bollox to that mate.the real enemy is the crown,"
What .. that wee woman called Elisabeth? What's she ever done (apart from help out a bit during the Second World War)?
That's as bad as saying that the real enemy of unionism was Pope John Paul II - a wee man that never did a button of harm to anyone.
But yet .. the Roman Catholic Church burned people at the stake, hunted them and tortured them to the extreme. Should John Paul, or the present Pope be held accountable for all the crimes his organisation committed against humanity too?
"the british army and the foriegn settlers."
Foreign settlers?!? So you're racist as well as sectarian? No surprise there really.
"there will never be peace in ireland as long as there is a british precence."
Oh I don't know. Its pretty peaceful at the minute.
Actually I think there will be peace once we've got rid of the IRA, the UVF, the UDA, 'Real' IRA, Continuity IRA, Lo-fat IRA and Diet Coke IRA etc etc.
"ireland should be made a country again.and for the record i am not irish,im a london born catholic with irish blood."
Jeez .. another ignoramous who thinks he knows all about Ireland simply because his ma once owned an IRISH Setter and his granny was a Catholic!
FYI, Ireland was never a 'country' until 1801, when it was added to the United Kingdom as such, with a consolidated parliament of its own.
"up the IRA"
Up yours, bigoted, ignorant wee toadstool.
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carcass65:
"bollox to that mate.the real enemy is the crown,the british army and the foriegn settlers.there will never be peace in ireland as long as there is a british precence.ireland should be made a country again.and for the record i am not irish,im a london born catholic with irish blood."
Who are these "foreign settlers" I keep hearing about? The Polish? The Chinese? Who exactly is it that you want out of 'your' country?
That all sounds a bit like Nazi territory to me. Ethnic cleansing anyone..?
"up the IRA"
Shove the IRA up.
tigerarmy09 (Tue Mar 14 2006 20:06:04 )
"As an Irishman, and member of the ISRP(Irish Socialist Republican Party), I must say that these Brit loyalists are making me sick at me stomach."
Well they would, wouldn't they? After all, you joined a particular group because you have a hatred of a certain group of people.
Vis-a-vis anything a "Brit loyalist" has to say will give you that feeling in the pit of your stomach.
Its called hatred. I hope some day you will grow up and realise that. You might even want to talk to a 'Hun' some time too, and you might even find that you have quite a lot in common with them .. politics aside.
"The IRA are not a group of terrorists, but rather a group of people seeking to take back the northern 6 counties which rightfully belong to the Republic of Ireland."
If Northern Ireland never belonged to the Republic of Ireland in the first place (created in 1947 I believe), then how on Earth are they going to manage to take it 'back'?
The IRA are terrorists by the way, as defined by their actions. They are on a ceasefire though.
"Ireland should belong to the Irish, seeing as how they've lived there for many a year, long before the British even knew they existed."
Ireland does belong to the Irish thanks. Nice of you to recognise that we've lived here for "many a year". I think your claim that the British never knew we existed is a bit tenuous. After all, the two islands are only about 20 miles apart.
"Lets not forgot too the Brits have tortured, raped, and murdered my people for countless centuries. A true war criminal is not Sadam, but Tony Blair, and all the previous Prime Ministers and the crown of England."
Blinkered bigotry. Away and have a wee lie down sunshine.. give your ass a rest.
tigerarmy09:
"As an Irishman, and member of the ISRP(Irish Socialist Republican Party), I must say that these Brit loyalists are making me sick at me stomach."
Well, they would do. Being a member of an extremist organisation, it would follow that you have extremist views.
"The IRA are not a group of terrorists, but rather a group of people seeking to take back the northern 6 counties which rightfully belong to the Republic of Ireland."
The Republic of Ireland made its choice to split from Ireland. Northern Ireland no more "rightfully belongs to" a terrorist group such as the IRA than it "rightfully belongs to" a terrorist group such as the UVF.
"Ireland should belong to the Irish,"
It does.
"seeing as how they've lived there for many a year, long before the British even knew they existed."
You'll have to read up on your history also, it seems. Pytheas, the ancient Greek, wrote of "the Prettanike" and the isles of the Prettanike - the peoples who inhabited these islands. It's likely that this is a Greek from of the word we used to describe ourselves. It doesn't take a genius to see that Prettanike is a Greek form of (the modern Welsh) Prydein (modern Irish Gaelic Cruithne), rendered in Latin texts as Pretani - later Britani .. Britannia. Ptolemy spoke of "the Pretannic Isles".
"Lets not forgot too the Brits have tortured, raped, and murdered my people for countless centuries. A true war criminal is not Sadam, but Tony Blair, and all the previous Prime Ministers and the crown of England."
While we're at it, let's not forget the Germans, Americans, Japanese, Chinese, Spanish, French, Portuguese and so many others who have tortured, murdered and raped people, globally.
Let's not forget the Irish who tortured, murdered, raped and enslaved people from England. Let's not forget the Irish who tortured, murdered and raped Irish people, too.
Well chris "XTC" (isnt that a drug?hmmm) the papers say a lot of things,and if you believe one word of what you read,then leave the conversation cause you clearly know *beep* all
shareGuys, Im reading all this with some awe. I believe many of you have never lived in an occupied country. Im Hungarian, and lived the first 15 years of my life in a country occupied by the Soviet Union. They did most of the killing 20 years before I was born, but we still hated them. You just had to look for the bullet holes on the buildings to remember what they did. The paralell is of course not exact, the two situtations are different, but I can tell you, you have to live in Belfast as a catholic to understand the IRA. If the majority of them votes that the IRA was a criminal organization I can accept that.
shareIf u want criminal organisations look to the loyalists
and who said the omagh bomb was done by former PIRA members..they were REAL IRA and why are SOME of them FORMER members?because they want to kill innocent civilians and just cause as much mayhem as possible..something the mainstream IRA wanted to avoid...hence the foration of dissidant groups.
i could argue like this all day with you ignorant ****s but couldnt be bothered
The IRA were an army(not anymore) why?they had O.C's they had a court martial they had everything that an army has pal so why dont you learn a bit about them first..and your all crying about the killing of innocent civilians..2 of my family members were shot by the army.one of which was a 13 yr old girl walking home from the shop..You think the brits didnt shoot catholics for fun?My uncle was shot by the UDA but survived ..and a BRITISH ARMY soldier walked up to him and said"next time you wont be so lucky"...
etc.
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Yes the world would be a very different place. i.e. *beep*
share[deleted]
WHEN EXACTLY DID THE IRA TAKE ON THE BRITISH ARMY AND SUCCEED? THEYVE SUCCEEDED IN KILLING NORMAL PEOPLE BUT THEYVE BEATEN NO ARMY.
shareWhen?oh that would be when they got back 26 counties,2/3rds of ireland (and it was supposed to be more which is why the IRA split and had a civil war)
shareNice generalisations you got going on there silent philosopher. I take it all Irishmen are dumb ginger twats aswell then?
shareIt seems 99% of people posting here haven't the slightest idea what they are talking about.
The resurfacing of the IRA and the formation of the PIRA was a direct result of the horrendous conditions the Catholic community found itself in at the end of the 1960's, and for 50 years leading to 1969. The Unionist run goverment in NI supperssed the Catholic people, denied us basic human rights for over 50 years, and allowed Unionist mobs, back by the RUC and the B-Specials, to run rampant in Catholic communities, burning homes and killing people. The beat civil rights protesters off the streets and imprisoned them.
It's true that the British army were welcomed as saviours by some within the Catholic\Nationalist community, but that soon changed when the London gov. put the British army under the control of the Unionist gov in NI, the root cause of the whole problem in NI in the 1st place. Initially the PIRA's objective was to help defend the Nationalist community. But with the British army now on the streets under the control of a gov run by people who hate Catholicism so much they think the Pope is the anti-Christ, it became obvious that the only path to equality was a path of resistance and a fight or freedom. And so came events that swelled the IRA's ranks, such as internment, Falls curfew, Bloody Sunday, hunger strikes, and so on...
Who in God's name gives you people the right to sit on your platform and look down on my people???? I see British and American posters call the IRA terrorists because they inadvertantly killed innocnet people in a 30 year long guerlla war, while their armies have killed 10 times more innocent Iraqi's in the last 3 years. I suppose that is legitimate because GWB and TB say so, eh??
Yes there have been memebers of the IRA who have intentionally killed inncoent people, unfortunately you will find those kinds of people in armies across the world.
Take a look at the 4 part documentary on the IRA using this link:- http://en.arcoiris.tv/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=13
Bare in mind this was done by the British Broadcast Company (BBC) - it is biased towards the British view of the Republican movement, but it does give those who do not know anything of the situation, which judging by the posts here is just about all of you, a small insight into what we've went through and why things played out the way they did.
ardoyne_man85
"It seems 99% of people posting here haven't the slightest idea what they are talking about."
I wonder if this includes yourself? Let's see, shall we?
"The resurfacing of the IRA and the formation of the PIRA was a direct result of the horrendous conditions the Catholic community found itself in at the end of the 1960's, and for 50 years leading to 1969. The Unionist run goverment in NI supperssed the Catholic people, denied us basic human rights for over 50 years, and allowed Unionist mobs, back by the RUC and the B-Specials, to run rampant in Catholic communities, burning homes and killing people. The beat civil rights protesters off the streets and imprisoned them."
And they didn't let the same types of things happen to the Protestant people too..?
When did the government supress the Catholic people by the way? Sure - Roman Catholics had a hard time, but it wasn't all the fault of the government. But still - it was certainly easy to blame the government, and easier still for the IRA to recruit poverty-stricken Catholics to 'the Cause' by using it as an excuse.
"It's true that the British army were welcomed as saviours by some within the Catholic\Nationalist community, but that soon changed when the London gov. put the British army under the control of the Unionist gov in NI, the root cause of the whole problem in NI in the 1st place. Initially the PIRA's objective was to help defend the Nationalist community. But with the British army now on the streets under the control of a gov run by people who hate Catholicism so much they think the Pope is the anti-Christ,"
Actually, Ian Paisley (who is the person you're talking about) was in OPPOSITION to the government at the time.
Try reading a bit of history mate.
"it became obvious that the only path to equality was a path of resistance and a fight or freedom. And so came events that swelled the IRA's ranks, such as internment, Falls curfew, Bloody Sunday, hunger strikes, and so on..."
There was always a political solution. Its just that people like Cahill and Paisley and others didn't want to LISTEN. Instead, the IRA recruited leftist students and poverty-stricken Catholics. They sicceeded in infiltrating the Civil Rights Movement and, instead of concentrating on the REAL issues, they put the constitutional status at the top of the agenda.
The direction the Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association started to take after the IRA infiltrated it, drove 99% of the supportive Protestants away from that organisation.
Convenient for you to forget that though, eh?
"Who in God's name gives you people the right to sit on your platform and look down on my people????"
Probably the same person who gave YOU the right to sit on YOUR platform and look down on MY people.
"I see British and American posters call the IRA terrorists because they inadvertantly killed innocnet people in a 30 year long guerlla war, while their armies have killed 10 times more innocent Iraqi's in the last 3 years. I suppose that is legitimate because GWB and TB say so, eh??"
"Inadvertantly"? They "inadvertantly" murdered 500 civilians in those 30 or so years. And it wasn't just by indiscriminate bombs set off in the middle of the day in town centres either. It was also by walking into pubs and indisriminantly spraying bullets. It was lining up groups of Protestant workers and executing them in broad daylight. It was sitting waiting in a carpark until two police constables walked close to a car they had planted a bomb in, and detonating it (the woman police constable had her foot blown off).
And here I'll bet you're laughing at that because you just see it as black and white: the police are the Enemy™. Because that's what you've been TOLD to believe.
Just the same as Paisley's followers have been told to believe that the Pope is the anti-Christ.
ardoyne_man85:
"The resurfacing of the IRA and the formation of the PIRA was a direct result of the horrendous conditions the Catholic community found itself in at the end of the 1960's, and for 50 years leading to 1969."
What "horrendous conditions" were these?
"The Unionist run goverment in NI supperssed the Catholic people, denied us basic human rights"
I'm afraid you're lying. Roman Catholics were disadvantaged, yes. Some gerrymandering occurred that wasn't in the favour of nationalists (Londonderry constituency), yes. Discrimination occurred in employment against Roman Catholics, yes.
That's just one side of the coin that carries on the obverse the fact that many working-class Protestants were disadvantaged; gerrymandering occurred that wasn't in favour of unionists (Newry & Down constituency); discrimination occurred in employment against Protestants.
"for over 50 years, and allowed Unionist mobs, back by the RUC and the B-Specials, to run rampant in Catholic communities, burning homes and killing people."
This was after rioting had broken out which threatened the homes in Protestant areas. No such "allowing" of "Unionist mobs" "running rampant" occurred that didn't occur with regard to "Nationalist mobs" "running rampant".
"It's true that the British army were welcomed as saviours by some within the Catholic\Nationalist community, but that soon changed when the London gov. put the British army under the control of the Unionist gov in NI,"
Again, you're wrong. The fact is that the Army were under the direct control of central government in London and, shortly after their deployment, they were under control of the GOC - responsible to the British government - and whose mission it was to provide support for the police. In that sense, to a certain degree, the Army supported the decisions made by the Government of Northern Ireland.
"Initially the PIRA's objective was to help defend the Nationalist community. But with the British army now on the streets under the control of a gov run by people who hate Catholicism so much they think the Pope is the anti-Christ"
Actually, Ian Paisley (to whom you're referring regarding the "anti-Christ" remark) wasn't in the Northern Ireland government. The Northern Ireland government included Roman Catholics in positions such as head of Education for NI, and planned as best they could with regard to Roman Catholic interests.
"Who in God's name gives you people the right to sit on your platform and look down on my people???? I see British and American posters call the IRA terrorists because they inadvertantly killed innocnet people in a 30 year long guerlla war, while their armies have killed 10 times more innocent Iraqi's in the last 3 years. I suppose that is legitimate because GWB and TB say so, eh??"
.. as opposed to the IRA being legitimate because Gerry Adams had said so (albeit never in public). What gives you the right to "look down on" my people, and support an organisation that inflicted terror and murder and destruction on my people?
"Yes there have been memebers of the IRA who have intentionally killed inncoent people, unfortunately you will find those kinds of people in armies across the world."
The destruction of peoples' lives was the IRA's raison d'être. That of the British Army and the police was to restore calm, law and order.
IrelandRaven:
"If u want criminal organisations look to the loyalists"
What .. because the Loyalists are somehow more evil..? Catch a grip! I don't want criminal organisations, and I certainly won't be looking to the Loyalists.
"and who said the omagh bomb was done by former PIRA members..they were REAL IRA and why are SOME of them FORMER members?because they want to kill innocent civilians and just cause as much mayhem as possible..something the mainstream IRA wanted to avoid...hence the foration of dissidant groups."
Indeed... which is why the Provisional IRA formed in the first place, back in 1969.
Echo..echo..echo...echo..cho..cho..oh..oh...
"i could argue like this all day with you ignorant ****s but couldnt be bothered"
Suit yourself.
"The IRA were an army(not anymore) why?they had O.C's they had a court martial they had everything that an army has pal so why dont you learn a bit about them first.."
I'm going to set up an army myself maybe. And it'll be a real army because we'll have court martials and uniforms (balaclavas et al) and drilling and officers and the works.
The UVF, by the way, are an army. They have all the fancy stuff too.
The UVF and the IRA are still a bunch of criminals and terrorists, however.
"and your all crying about the killing of innocent civilians..2 of my family members were shot by the army.one of which was a 13 yr old girl walking home from the shop..You think the brits didnt shoot catholics for fun?My uncle was shot by the UDA but survived ..and a BRITISH ARMY soldier walked up to him and said"next time you wont be so lucky"..."
There's quite a lot of anonymous hear-say on the Internet. Let me dig out those old 'war stories' of my own and paste them here for the sympathy vote...
To demkoattila
"Guys, Im reading all this with some awe. I believe many of you have never lived in an occupied country. Im Hungarian, and lived the first 15 years of my life in a country occupied by the Soviet Union. They did most of the killing 20 years before I was born, but we still hated them. You just had to look for the bullet holes on the buildings to remember what they did. The paralell is of course not exact, the two situtations are different, but I can tell you, you have to live in Belfast as a catholic to understand the IRA. If the majority of them votes that the IRA was a criminal organization I can accept that."
No - you don't have to be anything really to understand the IRA. You just have to have lived here and grown up with it, watching them terrorise friends and family, and destroy lives in the name of some 'cause' that most of us don't actually give too much of a sh*t about.
You just have to look at the rubble of buildings in Belfast to remember what they did.
By the way, we did kinda vote that the IRA are a criminal organisation - that's basically what the GFA was about.
So, do you accept that?
demkoattila:
"Guys, Im reading all this with some awe. I believe many of you have never lived in an occupied country. Im Hungarian, and lived the first 15 years of my life in a country occupied by the Soviet Union. They did most of the killing 20 years before I was born, but we still hated them. You just had to look for the bullet holes on the buildings to remember what they did. The paralell is of course not exact, the two situtations are different, but I can tell you, you have to live in Belfast as a catholic to understand the IRA. If the majority of them votes that the IRA was a criminal organization I can accept that."
They effectively have. Until the IRA declared a ceasefire, it's political wing, Sinn Féin, had a relatively poor showing at elections.
Suddenly, after their ceasefire, they increased their mandate. I'd say that some people were trying to tell them something. Wouldn't you?
Besides all that, the majority of the people in Northern Ireland consider the IRA to be both criminals and terrorists. It shouldn't be 'decided' by a minority population. That would be something that, if 'decided' at all, should be decided by the majority of ALL the citizens of Northern Ireland.
Perhaps you think that the UVF should only be regarded as criminal if a majority of Protestants vote for that. Or maybe that the UDA should be regarded as criminal only if the Jewish population of Belfast decide that.
I can tell you, by the way, that you don't have to live in Belfast as a Catholic to understand the IRA.
istickem
"A free country is all that we want. The Bloody British are trying to rule us just like they did back when America was getting started."
Personally I'm happy to be living in a free country. Its called Northern Ireland. Its part of another free country called the United Kingdom. Its closest neighbour is another free country called the Republic of Ireland.
I don't know what country you live in, but I feel sorry for you that its not free.
"At some point you must stand up for what you belive, if that means violence on violence then so be it."
Live by the sword, die by the sword. I certainly hope you get what you are looking for within that context.
"LONG LIVE THE IRA"
They can all rot in hell, along with all the other terrorist scumbags.
"LONG LIVE IRELAND"
Amen to that.
by - sunkist821 (Wed Jul 12 2006 12:05:38 )
"the IRA is not a terrorist organization"
It is. Here's a simple analogy for you:
"Stupid is as stupid does."
"past presidents of our country have met with their leaders under friendly terms seeing as we dont support terrorist or engage in sit downs with them this should end all speculation. i feel that not only are they not terrorist but that they are justifed in what they do for their freedom and irelands freedom"
Let's hope you bear that in mind the next time Al Queda kill a couple of thousand of YOUR fellow countrymen.
Some of you lot are a really SIMPLE folk, aren't you?
I do not out and out support them. I like the idea of a free united Ireland, but not like that. I mean I get it I understand everything that they had to go threw, well not everything but I can see why they would do what they do, but theres other ways. I know its a cop out but if it werent for the tactics Id support them
shareThis thread has the most deleted posts I've ever seen!!!
share