Seriously what was the point of this movie? i wanted to like it but i didn't see any sort of reasoning behind it. First of all the title? Ok i know Clay was his name but what did the pigeon mean?
Was Clay in on it with Lester? or did he join him in killing at the end? Or had he no part of it? This movie makes no sense, please somebody clear it up for me
I'll clear it up for you. The movie sucks.
shareThis was a bizarre movie. Watching it while coming off of mush didn't help matters much either.
My take is that he made a deal with Lester to let the girl go and he'd let him escape. But I have no idea. I never really thought of him as in on it, but maybe. Although when lester got arrested, wouldn't he have said something?
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I thought it was entertaining, especially Vince's portrayal of the very quirky and disturbing serial killer. I thought it all made sense, even though not everything was realistic. But that's okay, its just dark and silly humor.
"Not Picnic Basket...Picnic Casket"
Isn't a clay pigeon referring to the things you shoot at for sport? Maybe it's like a decoy type of reference and since Clay was Lester's decoy in the movie it would make sense for a title.
"Not Picnic Basket...Picnic Casket"
A clay pidgeon is a replacement for a bird, used mostly for practicing.
No clay was not in on it with lester. At the end he set lester up to go back with the sheriff. watch the end again the guy with th horse is the sheriff, seems to me they are gonna handle him in their own way.
There are spoilers below...
Right, the title has to do with Lester using Clay as a decoy. Clay never killed anyone and he didn't join up with Lester at the end, although he did cover up two deaths. He made some sort of deal with Lester to let Kimberly go--since he was standing on the dock when the FBI agent arrived, and he sent her into the woods although but Lester was really hidden just a few feet away, probably the deal was, "Let Kimberly go and I'll send the FBI the wrong way to look for you and give you time to escape." Kimberly got away, we see her running past the cars before the agent gets out and runs over to the dock to talk to Clay.
At the end Clay tricks Lester by pretending he's moving out of town, knowing that Lester will follow him. He was really leading Lester into a trap so that the sheriff and his own men, not the FBI, could be the ones to catch Lester. The FBI agent suspected there was something going on and that's why she asked Clay again just before he left town, "Is there anything else you want to tell me?" and Clay said no. The FBI had pretty much made the local guys look like fools so this would be a great way for them to come out looking like heroes and give them the satisfaction of catching the guy who had killed several local girls.
As Rhaigh pointed out, the horse man at the end who offers Lester a job is the sheriff and after he drives away, a swarm of police cars follow them--but Clay turns the other way and drives back toward home.
I thought this movie was pretty good. Vince Vaughn was excellent and Janeane Garofalo gave her usual top notch performance. The end was unexpected. But a lot of what happens is very subtle so some people might not have caught it on the first viewing.
you're amazing! nice one i agree on all counts!
share"At the end Clay tricks Lester by pretending he's moving out of town, knowing that Lester will follow him. He was really leading Lester into a trap so that the sheriff and his own men, not the FBI, could be the ones to catch Lester."
Clay actually is leaving town. Just after he talks to the female FBI agent, the phone rings, remember. It makes it pretty obvious that Lester was on the other line and has said meet me. See Clay's face when he hears the door open behind him in that little diner - he knows it's Lester, he's expcting him. Why he met him, i'm not too sure. Lester has a few screws loose, he sees Clay as a good friend, thinks that Clay might join him on the road.
"As Rhaigh pointed out, the horse man at the end who offers Lester a job is the sheriff and after he drives away, a swarm of police cars follow them--but Clay turns the other way and drives back toward home. "
When Clay pulls into the diner he comes from the right side of the screen. When he leaves he goes towards the left. He actually is leaving town - the sherrif, lester and the poilice cars are heading back home.
And to that person who couldn't follow this movie ... steer clear of 'mulholland drive.'
"When Clay pulls into the diner he comes from the right side of the screen. When he leaves he goes towards the left. He actually is leaving town - the sherrif, lester and the poilice cars are heading back home. "
Actually, I don't think it's clear whether he was returning home or not. I kind of doubt it.
The scene where he pulls into the diner doesn't start on the highway, so the left-hand turn you see on-screen was already off the highway. We don't know which direction he came from.
I loved this movie. Definitly a dark comedy/drama. I followed this movies easily enough but I would definitly agree with you on "Mullholland Drive"
shareOne entry found for stool pigeon.
Main Entry: stool pigeon
Function: noun
Etymology: probably from the early practice of fastening the decoy bird to a stool
1 : a pigeon used as a decoy to draw others within a net
2 : a person acting as a decoy or informer; especially : a spy sent into a group to report (as to the police) on its activities
clay pigeon = stool pigeon
thank you soooo much dragongrrrlll ... i just finished watching this movie and thought ... that sucked! but i didn't realize that the sheriff was the guy with the horse trailer. now i'd like to watch it again ... from the beginning!
shareYou covered the ending exactly (or almost) as I had envisioned it.
Glad to see a post that verifies what I told friends who watched the movie with me that had some questions about the ending. The sheriff was almost like a father figure to Clay and had helped him when no one else believed him, so it would be the right move for Clay to make sure "Mooney" take the serial killer into custody.
Actually, I wasn't sure if Clay was going home or not but it does make sense now.
Thanks
Thank you Dragongrrrllll, that really summed things up completely! I didn't realize that Clay had lead Lester into the trap so the local sheriff "Mooney" and his team were able to capture the serial killer in lieu of the FBI, who constantly made fun of the them. Great summary! Great movie!!
"Living is easy with eyes closed"
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Fact? And you have a degree in what?
"a malcontent who knows how to spell"
clay was indeed his name, pigeon because a clay pigeon is hurled into the air by a machine operated by someone else, then shot at and destroyed by someone wielding a shotgun. it is what is commonly known as a metaphoric title, evolved from the name of themain character.
clay, therefore was not in on it with lester, he was an innocent bystander who was just really unlucky, though i suppose he shouldn't have been sleeping with that guy's psycho wife.
clay didn't kill anyone though he caused the deaths of 2 people unintentionally.
it was a great film, funny too.
Clay did NOT "cause" anyone's death. You might say that three deaths happened because of something Clay did (or rather deaths of three characters connected to Clay), but he's not responsible for any of them.
Earl committed suicide because he couldn't handle Clay's affair with Earl's wife.
Kimberly was killed by Amanda because she was jealous of her relationship with Clay.
Amanda was killed because she was a stone-cold bitch, and happened to meet up with a psychopathic serial killer.
Im sorry and I dont want to offend you,
but if you dont get 'it' and dont even understand if Clay had part in it or not,
youre just not smart enough for this kind of movie...
Stick to Armageddon or something.
Man, you're pretty *beep* dumb, no offense. I mean, if you didn't like the movie, that's cool, not everyone does. But to not "get it?" Nothing could've been more obvious. If anything, the plot was a little too linear and predictable (hey, I LOVED it anyway). I'm just... Blown away. How could anyone not get this? There's nothing to even debate about. *Sighs* I've lost all faith in humanity.
shareClay knew that Lester would be checking up on him then and again. And he knew that Lester was on the line. I'm not so sure that he answered the phone...it doesn't show him answering the phone. But I reckon after Lester got no answer he high-tailed it over to his house, found him gone, and went to a nearby diner. Which, of course, Clay anticipated this and set him up.
Lester made a deal with Clay for everyone to live. Kimberly and Lester. This is southern America, you really think they'd just shove him into a prison?
actually the movie is set in montana. Both great falls and billings are mentioned in the movie by Agent Shelby and Lester, and both are located in montana.
sharenot to mention the song Moon of Montana plays blatantly towards the end of the movie :)
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Please note the Joshua trees around the diner at the end of the movie! The Joshua tree is only found in the states of California, Arizona, Utah and Nevada. Confined mostly to the Mojave Desert between 400-1,800 m (2,000-6,000 feet), they thrive in the open grasslands of Queen Valley and Lost Horse Valley in Joshua Tree National Park.
Another GREAT clue is in the credits at the end...the movie was shot on locations around Los Angeles as well as many spots in UTAH.
This is Southern America, you really think they'd just shove him into a prison.
To the contrary, it was supposed to be in Montana, which borders Canada, so it is in one of the Northern states.
I think pigeon is also sometimes used to denote a patsy. So his name was Clay and he was being set up as a patsy. Hence the name Clay Pigeons.
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. Samuel Beckett
let me guess, the movies you like are the crappy blockbuster movies like A v P or ocea'ns 12. CP was a brilliant thriller, only true film fans can applaud it. you go watch your mission impossible and terminator flicks
shareHey everyone, my uncle is Chris Dorr, producer for this movie. Let me know if you want me to ask him anything.
~Eric
Well, let me explain it to ya. A clay pigeon is a decoy set up for those who like to shoot at things. Joaquin's name was Clay. The pigeon is, I think, supposed to mean all those poor women Vince Vaughn's character was killing just because he likes to kill women. Then he tried to frame Clay for it. So I guess, in a way, Clay was a pigeon as well.
Joaquin was completely innocent. That's why he takes off in the end. He saved that girl and his own butt by leading Janeane Garofolo's character away from the killer.
good explanation
**SPoilERS**
also at the end he the sheriff (mooney) hooks up w/ Lester....not to mention the patrol cars behind them.
BLAH