it doesnt deserve 5.9
i like johnny depp as much as the next person but if this is the final result when he gets control over a film i hope he doesnt make a habit of it. It looks like a tv movie, and even the iggy pop soundtrack is disapointing.
What could have been a good film (the storyline is a good idea in concept) turned out to be a dire, boring waste of an evening.
i just watched this film and .. im crying.
To be honest, at the beginning it was very slow paced. I wondered what would come from this film. As a Johnny Depp fan I have learned to become more critical so that I know, for myself and others, that when i think a johnny depp film is a good film, it ACTUALLY is. ...
Saying this, i found this movie great. I think that there are points where .. you wonder about the relevance of some things are as the relevance is not always later shown (for example - Raphael writes a lot in a little note book, yet we as the audience, do not know what it is for)
One could list a few things in this way, sayin things like this that are both negative and positive. But I realised, soon enough during the movie I was gripped and towards the end I found myself trying so hard not to cry, and it all just flowed out.
I would like to know why you think it was a waste of an evening, but to me, it was moving, gripping, had a good solid story line, and was overall (this may be the wrong word for this kind of film) entertaining. These are the signs of a good film, extra critisisms aside. .
I will, soon, go back and watch the film with a more critical eye ... just ... because. but i wont over analyse ... why over analyse. I wouldn't do it to every film ... I liked it
(please do not think I am forcing my idea on you. I am actually glad to see someone is able to say they do not like a film in a ... 'nice' ... way, at least giving some reason other than 'its *beep* Thanks.)
the idea of the story line interested me instantly, but it was abmismally done.
The movie is slowly paced at time but thats not a problem for me. I feel the main point was making Depp look like a post modern hero, sacrificing himself for his family, but he actually ended up looking like a loser.
The acting was fairly weak, even Brando.
I cant begin to fathom how this reduced you to tears, I've re watched it, its poorly directed, with a reliance on sacharine affection (the playground he builds is just ridiculous)
okay .. i have watched it again .. the second time it did not reduce me to tears but it still left me feeling like i had to sit in silence for like .. a minute afterwards.
the playground is ..... okay i get your point. But that to me had reason behind it .
*SPOILER*
im not .. a director so when people say there is poor directing .. i am not 100% sure i understand .. the only thing i seriously thought was ridiculous was that Raphael's cousin was still breathing after being killed. but that's not directing ......
the whole point u say about him lookin like a loser .. i think that is a personal view on self-sacrifice.
okay .. thanx
still loving this film though .. and i personally feel that when people watch it they should be less critical and just .. be absorbed by it. the best directing decision made was not to show the snuff film .. and if anything.. that deserves 'props'.
Haha true about his cousin. I was like err... is he dead or not, because I'm pretty sure you aren't supposed to breathe after you're dead.
I don't think the acting was bad at all!
And yes, this movie made me cry too.
This movie was so unbelievably depressing and the end is creepy as heck. Brando is so eerie too. I still get nightmares about this one. It was amazing though, and the overall metaphor about American genocide against Native peoples was very powerful.
shareI'm a bloke, and a fairly straught laced one at that. (Comes from being "British", a painful legacy I'm not terribly proud of!) In the last 20 years have cried precisely twice. Once when I realised I was going to be a father, (A couple of months ago), and early last year, when I saw this film. The sacrifice Raphael makes for his family ... Gut-wrenchingly emotional for me, to say the least. I connected such hope for the man. To have suddenly come to life again, to appreciate each and every moment, but for such a short space of time before making good on his promise to take care of them... Deeply, deeply moving.
I really need to see this fim again. Beautiful, absolutely beautiful.
[deleted]
I have never seen this film, I have seen pieces of it on YouTube and other sites but never the whole film. I can't imagine it would be awful I wish Johnny would release in the US, but he probably will not. Anyway MacyNEll I can identify with what you say about being punched in the stomach a couple of Johnny's movies have done that to me The Libertine and Sweeney Todd. His movies are the only ones that have ever done that to me and it takes me a while to recover. Usually it is the first and maybe the second viewing, after that it doesn't hit me quiet as hard.
Johnny, You light up my life
See if you can get a copy of the book somewhere before you watch it again.
The "punch line" (and whole point of the book?) is absent from the film.
After reading (it's a short book) you will either be crying or just staring off into space feeling sick.
Very early in my life it was too late.
-Marguerite Duras
i think most of you may actually be insane
shareI just watched a pirated copy. Maybe I'm just a dumb American, but it sucked. I'm a big Gregory McDonald fan and the book was amazing. Could've been a good movie. Depp just blew it, bottom line. If you're a Depp fan I guess anything with him in it looks good. But the movie itself could've been much better.
shareSince you read the book, I have to respect your opinion. But I was moved by the film.
sharegoatboy...i'm not a father, i'm not a parent. i'm an older woman...but i can understand your emotional reaction to this movie. i felt the same. i wanted to believe i would make that sacrifice if i found myself in equally desperate circumstances.
share I'm not going to disagree with your comments on the movie.
You might want to read the book, if you can find one.
( There is no playground.) But, Rafael IS a loser.
That is the whole point of the story, really.
Very early in my life it was too late.
-Marguerite Duras
Years later, I watched this movie. dogstab, I wholeheartedly agree with your comments. It was an evening wasted. A mish-mash mess that looked like a movie school student pasted together with the most obvious cliches in film making and bland pieces of music to add to the mix. An actor Depp may be, a director he is not (unless he gets serious guidance).
sharePLEASE tell me what happened in the end???? You tube had up to 13th chapter,
shareI was really scared before watching this film because pretty much everything I heard about it was bad. However, dont believe everything you hear. I was in tears at the end. I loved it! The music was beautiful and went perfectly with what was happening. Some of the camera shots were just absolutly amazing, just beautiful and some of the shots I would have done differently but overall it was a really good movie. There is not a lot of dialog in it but it doesn't need it. I love it and I dont care what anyone else says. It is a really really beautiful film. Awesome job Johnny!
Random babblings from a Sweeney Fan
This was supremely impressive. I think this movie will be a classic in the future.
I agree. I thought it was beautiful and haunting, and very very simple. In a good way. The ending brought me to tears and even though I've only seen it once, a month or so ago, it's still with me. Johnny Depp as an actor doesn't have to say a lot to convey a lot of emotion or be a good actor - see Edward Scissorhands, for example. He says virtually nothing (fewer than 200 words in the whole film) but it's considered one of his best performances.
I'm not saying the movie had the best directing, or the best script, or is the most visually stimulating movie of all time. But all of the elements together make this one of my top 5 movies. It's mournful and sad. Talk is cheap to Rapahel, which is why he doesn't talk much. It's meant to show a long slow walk to his death, which it does. What Depp is able to convey with brief bits of dialogue and incredible expressivness in his mannerisms and through his eyes is deeply emotional and powerful.
In short, it took my breath away.
I didn't read any reviews etc of this film and i'm glad as it might of put me off seeing it.
I thought it was beautiful and sad, i had not expected it to be like that at all. And yes i agree with what some other's have said it may not be the best for this or that, but it does seem to work and get the story across very well.
I was in tears at the end.
Certainly one of his best performances as for directing i think he did it well enough.
You let a wolf save your life, they make you pay and pay and pay . . .
I agree. I like very much Depp as an actor (not in the case of The Brave though). But I found this movie's direction to be awful. The movie is B O R I N G
shareBad script.
Worse directing... well, as bad.
Interesting storyline.
Horrific 'stay-in-your-mind' ending.
All in all - boring.
This is what happens when people are raised to believe that cinema is supposed to be "entertaining". People judge every film on how "entertaining" it is. Old films, new films, comedies, action films, and honest films. Everything's too "slow", everything's too "boring".
Well, this film isn't meant to entertain. It's meant to make you think. It's an honest attempt at conveying someone's life. Raphael is not meant to be a hero, nor is he portrayed as one. He's a complicated man, and not a "good" man. We aren't even led to believe that his sacrifice was worth giving - it's obvious that nothing he did would have helped his family in any way: they're completely alone now.
The point of the film - though I have not yet read the story - is to convey, in some ways, the futility of life; in other ways, its beauty. If you don't like to think, or reflect on anything, if you prefer explosions and running about, then stay away from this film - it's that simple. But don't you dare call it boring.
Every actor in this film does his best. Johnny Depp at that point was not entirely who he is today - obviously - but he knew how to act. And he acts, and he becomes. His Raphael is a fascinating person, despite his faults, and very sympathetic to anyone who honestly bothers watching, without judging beforehand.
I see no flaws in direction. Every actor and every shot do exactly what they are meant to. Before judging someone's first attempt at directing - and this is the first time he had directed anything, and now, because of people like you, probably the last - go and do something yourself. It's hard.
I will never understand how a film that meant so much to a person, who poured his entire soul into creating it, could be so despicably treated.
In response to the rest of you - most of you, really - I can't even describe how happy it makes me to know that some people actually see its worth.
I will never understand how a film that meant so much to a person, who poured his entire soul into creating it, could be so despicably treated.
"I will never understand how a film that meant so much to a person, who poured his entire soul into creating it, could be so despicably treated.
In response to the rest of you - most of you, really - I can't even describe how happy it makes me to know that some people actually see its worth. "
I totally agree with you, and I just saw this movie right now, and I just feel so bad. If I can handle to look at this movie again in the future, I will.
Edward: And then she showed me the back room where she took all of her clothes off.share
OOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!
Why'dya think i'm purposely dissin johnny depp?!?! ITS NOT MY FAULT HE'S SUCH A BAD DIRECTOR!!
Films aren't meant to be entertaining?!?!?! YOU EGIT!! THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE ANYTHING BUT BBBOOOORRRRIIINNNGGGGG... boring and entertaining being polar opposites, seen in black and white terms, this was BORING.
I poured by entire soul, and a bit of laughter too, into writing this post, BUT I DONT SEE YOU LIKING OR RESPECTING IT!!! HYPOCRITE!!
I can pour my entire soul into writing, which i have once, and the all important geezeress didn't like it!! I GOT OVER IT!! YOU GET OVER IT!!! I'M NOT A GOOD WRITER JUST LIKE DEPP'S NOT A GOOD DIRECTOR!!
Just for the record; I love Johnny, that doesn't mean i have to lie and praise his poor directing and the rest of it like you're doing. He's an actor through and through, whether he, or you, like it or not.
YOU CANT CHOOSE YOUR TALENTS.
... sadly.
Well, obviously shouting is helping you, isn't it? Don't get worked up. We're all being friendly here.
I think it was very well directed, especially for a first-timer who was put in a very compromising position over and over regarding the production of the fim. Starting from day 1, he was forced to do things he wasn't comfortable with just so he could get the budget he needed to make the film. Yes, there are problems with the film and its direction, but overall I thought it was beautifully and hauntingly done. It was a heartfelt delivery of a very simple and haunting story. Yes, I've used the word haunting several times - it's the perfect word to describe my feelings about the film.
I found the film captivating from beginning to end. I wanted to know more. I literally was at the edge of my seat at times. I thought the screenplay was a significant improvement over the novel, which I read in a few quick hours and was left feeling empty and unsatisified by. The movie had a stronger message, the scenes added/deleted/changed dramatically improved the pacing and the "feeling" of the story, and made you feel significantly more invested in the characters.
I was fully prepared to hate this movie. I don't love everything Johnny Depp has done. I very much dislike Private Resort. Or, more recently (and perhaps with more validity), I didn't like Dead Man at ALL. I'm not Jim Jarmusch fan. If you count it as a "Depp movie" (even though he didn't play a central character), I absoloutley hated Platoon. With Arizona Dream, The Brave stands as one of my top 5 Johnny Depp films, and furthermore, is one of my top 5 favorite films of all time. It moved me in a way that no movie ever has before.
And finally, if you pour your entire soul into an IMDB post, you perhaps need to get a life. Or a more valuable soul. Don't weigh the dissenting opinions of strangers quite so much, and you won't get quite so worked up as to shout at them unnecessarily.
Oh my word, you like, sound like, so like, deep like. SSSOOOOOO DDDEEEEEEEEEEPPPP, y9ou're like Mystic Meg or something.
It takes a particularly single-cell-in-brain sort of person to be in the least bit 'edge of your seat' about this film, like u iz pruuvin, ya div.
OH MY WORD, LIKE THIS IS SHOUTING... LIKE?! THIS IS STRESSING THE IMPORTANCE OF MY UNDERVALUED OPINION!!
Haunting? Oh yes... it was haunting at the VERY VERY VERY end when the lift doors were closing, but all the way through? No. NOOO. No. No. No. No. No.
I'm so happy you felt empty and unsatisfied with the novel, so did i with the film, but a little more on the "WHAT THE F- IS THAT SUPPOSED TO BE?!" "OH YEAH, LIKE THATS ACTING." and "SSSNNNNOOORRRREEEEEEEEE" side.
I've got a life, and that life consists of arguments as i tend not to live like a lemming like you. My soul is also most valuable and fantastic and brilliant. You're soul obviously spells out your patronising and naive nature. Mine spells my need for argument when i read some crap like yours...
One of top 5 films of all time? Hardy har... HAR. You've low expectations.
i started this thread almost 2 years ago, i just checked it again.
some people here are mentally irregular!
TERRIBLE DIRECTING!!!
HORRIFIC ACTING!!!
johnny depp is good when someone else is calling the shots, but please! can someone make sure he just keeps doing what tim burton tells him to from now on.
You're entitled to that opinion. I'm entitled to my own, as well, and I quite liked it. NFT.
shareI agree dogstab. He doesn't make daring or clear choices, it's really flat. It is really an art to make a good or meaningful film. All folk here on the Forum that cry for him are sentimental. Acting is also suggesting and Ok (sigh) it works when you as an audience believe it or it makes you feel good (or sad or whatever).
But I'm supposed to see he is a drunk - He seems well rested and relaxed etc. I don't see he is gloomy or deep at all, he is just carefree. I don't see the poverty porn and the good times funfair outdoor TV-set etc. I'll watch any of Depps next projects, but this one stank big time. Yes you are anice guy Mr. Depp, movie directors have to be daring and visionary and tough. Just as I think Martin Scorsese still deserves all the credits even after the stinker of Departed or what was it with schmiering Nicholson very badddd (him mimicing a rat funny teeth And that grin Awful)... but Ok.
I stand by my point: films are NOT meant to be entertaining. Not all of them. And if you only see everything in black and white, I have great sympathy for you. I have no reason to "like" your post; and it's difficult to respect something so COMPLETELY disrespectful. You don't see the difference between not liking something and it being a bad thing. The fact that you couldn't appreciate the film doesn't make it a terrible one, believe it or not. I never said you had to praise it. I merely said you had no right to insult it - especially as someone who has quite obviously never directed a single thing in your life. By all means keep your interpretations (lack thereof, actually), but at least don't pretend they're the right and only possible response to such a film.
share[deleted]
Vanessa my dear you`re not even worth the trouble of giving you an answer in regard to your academic criticism of this film.the form of language you are using doesn`t qualify you to one[answer that is].
shareThe only reason I can think of for the warm Euro critics' reception was anti-American sentiment mixed with white boy's guilt. The only reason I can think of these overly-personal, treacly, blubbering reviews by so many of you imdb users is that you are confusing the very attractive actor, Depp, and his vacuous politcal views with anything remotely real, artistic or significant. This movie isn't America. It is a slum in Mexico City. Complete, confused, brainwashed, obnoxious fantasy passed off as a "statement."
You people wouldn't know a good movie if it bit you in the a$$ and it is people like you who make so much garbage squirted out of the colon of Hollywood become mega hits, while important, memorable films wither at the BO, if indeed they ever get produced. This movie is total garbage. Dep was ahsamed to release this in the US because only the global audience is gullible enough not to mock or laugh at this travesty of filmmaking.
Johnny didn't release this film in America due to the American critics reaction at Cannes. He quite rightly decided that it wouldn't stand a chance, and if they were representative of all Americans then what would be the point?
In many ways this is a very European film - it tells a story at a measured pace, giving the viewer time to get to know and care for the main characters. Perhaps this is why the European viewers and critics stood and applauded the film when they saw it - they recognised the passion and care that went into it. To say the enthusiasm of the Cannes audience was down to anti-American sentiment smacks of a persecution complex, and I'm intrigued to know exactly what guilt the Director was supposed to be feeling.
I find it interesting that those who bash Depp continually use his looks against him - something he has been battling for years. I guess he'll still be fighting this particular battle well into his seventies.
to know and care for main character?
please dont make fun of me just for me living in europe.
it was just terrible, only thing that was coming to my mind was to take all children from that slum away to step families and sweep that place with napalm strike.
why in the world anyone should care for such people? because they are poor? what did they do to change it? as far as movie depicts it, not much.
I'm from Europe I like most of Depp's projects, but this film was really awful. I don't mind slow but that doesn't make it arthousy. What is the bloody point?! It is not political, it is sentimental. He is not gloomy and he doesn't suffer apparantly - he is relaxed and carefree. Crap. I don't mind or care for his good looks, but to make a statement as a moviemaker you have to take everything in account. That for example is that when you show off an actors good looks and fine body, that turns out to make the story flat and sentimental.
shareI don't really have an opinion about this movie one way or the other, but I would just like to take this opportunity to point out that people who complain about bad directing had better be prepared to write an essay on just what the hell they know about directing anyway.
shareDo you expect the same essay from people that praise the directing? Or are you merely a hypocrite?
Since you did not state that people "better be prepared" for both, the question is pretty much rhetorical. You gave me the answer with that critical omission.
Don't trust reality. After all, it's only a collective hunch.
Oh noes! An omission! And critical, to boot!
shareIt's a real stinker. It is very bad. I understand Johnny Depp gets the sympathy vote - he is handsome and cool, he is succesful and did great, great work before - but c'mon guys, this is a bad movie. Story and subject OK, the courage to attempt making a film also OK, getting his Don Juan de Marcos or whatever-buddy Brando in a film also well done, but this is crap. Yes he looks good (he always does), yes we all love him. But yes he is cool because he is a hip drunk and a martyr and a survivor and a killer of his wife rapist so that is great because he is a family man and he is an indian so he is very deep and Oh Yes he is a tender also passionate lover (outdoors) etc...?!
We all seem to dream away here on the Forum seeing him...
And what is with all the primary colours in the party good times balloons for C sake... Iggy P nibbling on a turkey prop etc. Some deep *beep* with his father (good gosts bad gosts) while drowning sorry cleansing his soul.
I needed wizzy badly after seeing it!
I just saw the film and decided to drop a few lines here. Johnny Depp's acting is amazing as he is able to create unforgettable characters and that's why we all love seeing him. I am a fan, and that's why I decided to watch "The Brave".
But frankly speaking I was rather disappointed by this film and will try to give arguments. We'll see if my English is good enough to express them :-)
The first bad impression is the weak acting of almost everyone (including Depp at moments, not to mention his wife... Aaarrghhh!). I couldn't see any realistic and compelling character in this movie. And strong characters and their relationships is the key point of making the audience feel for them, to BE them and experience the story more personally.
His wife and the relationship between both of them was weak, not to say nonexistent. I couldn't feel neither for her, nor for him. I didn't care what will happen to any of them. This is because they weren't portrayed as a loving couple that wouldn't be able to live separated.
In terms of screenwriting and storytelling -> No setting of time, characters, place and relationships. We are forced directly into the second act of the film without having a good introduction. Who does that? And why? How can you direct a character driven story without characters and motives? Without relationships?
Rafael should have had a reason to sell his life for "saving" his family. "Saving" from what? At that point nothing threatens them. At least we aren't introduced to such threat. Yes, they live in misery but they seems to be surviving for quite a long time already. So why is he so confident to get tortured to death? He's drunk in a bar, and an unknown drunkard tells him about this "job offer" and he goes right away. ?! It makes no sense. This is NOT characterization, please.
... and there're some more examples of "bad" storytelling and blank characters, but I am too tired of writing and not quite sure that anyone will read it.
Overall, the story is ok, the movie could have been totally great and moving, but it is not. At least for me. Because we lack the connection between the characters, their motives and relationships with the obstacles. These things create real drama, not cheese love scenes at sunset and "father-son" conversations opposed to huge cold elevators leading to darkness and tortures.
Speaking of tortures, I know some people will probably troll me for this, but I've watched another film that is way better than "The Brave" in terms of characters and drama. It's the French "Martyrs".
It is horrible, sick, too graphic... but at the same time beautifully shot, well directed and despite its radical nature - really moving. Just for the first 30mins we feel with the characters, we know about their past, their relationship, their problems, fears, feelings, their motives ...everything. And this is a horror movie, that makes no pretence to be "moving" and dramatic.
Just a thought on everyone's general opinion about this film.
Half of you hated it. Half of you loved it. I am wondering now, those of you who liked it and/or were impressed with it in anyway happen to be parents. I wonder as well if those of you who didn't like it, haven't any children at all.
To me, as a parent, I have to say this film really struck a cord with me in knowing how desparate one could get if his children's well-being were on the line. To me, the scenes between Raph and his little boy were just gut-wrenching. It broke my heart knowing that boy was never going to see his daddy again.
No offense to anybody if I'm wrong about my wonderings, it's just a thought. I did like this film though. I thought Johnny did well with it. He should direct again now that he's a little older.
Nope; I am childfree, male, and yet I liked it.
Born when she kissed me, died when she left me, lived whilst she loved me
I cried oceans of tears watching this movie.The ending kills me.The music is sad and Rafael looks so sad and silencious...he is crying and there is nobody there for him..and it is even worse the fact of knowing he was going to that awful place to be tortured like an animal.
I don't know what those psychos would do him, but it is creepy...I don't get why Rafael accepted that, MCarthy did not even explain him the torture, he just talked about dead and torture, and Rafael did not say one just word, i was shocked seeing how he accepted that,so easy and clean.
There are other ways to solve a problem, but what he accepted seemed to me like the craziest thing.Johnny depp said in a interview he tought Rafael was stupid,and now I see why.I don't think he did a good thing for his family,let himself to be tortured and MURDERED¡¡ Come on, his kids need him¡ even his wife, even tough she was a bit cold with him, but i don't think Rafael was a clever guy.
Johnny was a great director with this movie, so sad in USA people said bad things about the movie.I think he deserved an oscar.This story is so sad, i think 99% of people who watched it, did end up crying.I barely could sleep that night, and i cried tears and tears.I was broken, and i could not get Rafael out of my mind.It was a obsession...God, Johnny was perfect as director and actor.And the music is excellent, so sad and depressing at the end...
I never understood how Rafael accepted something like that,so awful and anti human,showing that calm,that sad and quiet look and without asking or to try change the things.He could have given the money back to McCarthy, or when he went for first time to that place asking for a job,he should have gone away when he realized what kind of job that was...But he accepted it, and that is crazy..I insist, his family needed him, his kids loved him,and he did not allow them to grown seeing their dad just because some dollars.That is hard and sad.
I can't handle the ending.It is so heartbreaking when he is crying when he sees his kids sleeping.The music is painful to hear because the image of Rafael alone and crying is awful...It kills me..
And he was so handsome, with a body so perfect and pretty ( sorry if i sound dumb), but the fact of thinking about the psychos hitting him, and bad treating his pretty body and that beautiful face makes me feel worse..God :-(
Jimmy Doyle and his orchestra
I disagree with you.
I wasn't a fan of the soundtrack myself... but as far as the look of the film goes; it's a character study, overt flashiness would detract from this tone.
Born when she kissed me, died when she left me, lived whilst she loved me