Why Slaves?


There is a thread already discussing why the plantations in the Americas desired to import black workers.

I would like to ask a slightly different question: why did they import enslaved Africans rather than free ones? After the UK banned the slave trade in 1807, their colonies could no longer import slaves and started importing indentured workers from India. (They would be required to work for someone for a few years to repay the costs of their passage, but they were legally free. Many white colonists arrived in America in the same way.)

They did not import Africans in the same way, although West Africa was much closer. Why not?

Why could they get free workers from India, but not Africa?

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Bigotry, laziness, greed...

They wanted to make a one time purchase and never have to worry about payment again.

---
"Attempted murder? Now honestly, what is that? Do they give a Nobel Prize for attempted chemistry?"

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Yes, they wanted to make money.

But why is it that after 1807 they could make money by hiring free Indians, but not free Africans?

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Cheap labor.

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Slaves were not cheap labour. It was taken for granted, during the height of the trade, that you could hire a labourer in Britain for subsistence wages (it is mentioned in The Wealth of Nations, for example), and for only very slightly more in America (otherwise extra immigration from Britain would have cut the cost of labour in America to its level in the UK).

Even a slave has to be paid subsistence wages, in cash or in kind. Plus the cost of guarding him, paying for his initial enslavement (slave raiders were rarely charitable enough to give their product away for free), etc.

But if you did not like a free labourer in Britain, you fired him and hired someone you liked better. Also for subsistence wages.

With a slave, all you could do was torture him, and hope he started behaving better before you did any significant damage to your property.

Slaves were therefore harder to discipline precisely because you had an investment in them.

Slaves were therefore valuable in Jamaica, Brazil, South Carolina etc, only because they could not get many free immigrants. They would be valueless back home, which is why hardly a single slave ever saw European soil.

So why did no free Africans move to the Americas, given that plenty of free Indians were prepared to do so?

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plantation owners tried indians as well. they did not have the stamina and ability to work continuously in the sun that the africans had.

as for the other question, obviously a slave costs less than an free laborer/employee (although there is a larger start-up cost).

What the $%*& is a Chinese Downhill?!?

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thats simply not true the indians did not make good slaves because it was to easy for them to escape they could simply make it back to their tribe or another indian tribe, but where would a black slave go? he has to make it all the way to the northern states. and bringing slaves from africa was done away with because slaves have children who then become slaves so there is no need to import slaves because the children are raised up to be the new slaves. the amistad slave ship was illegal and it was importing slaves to cuba not the united states, after the slaves took over the ship it sailed to new york but that was never the intended destination

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tgrdavid:

The reference to Indians is people from India...not native American Indians.

Indians (from India) are generally physically weaker than Africans and couldn't handle the hard labour on the plantations are well as Africans. When the slaves were freed though Indians were a much cheaper option.
Even today Indians (and other people from the Indian subcontinent) are used as cheap labour...places like Dubai are built on the backs of poor Indians who are paid penuts but will work because they have nothing back home and have families to support.

N.



"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful"

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Are you seriously questioning why free Africans chose not to move to the most racist societies in the world?

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The obvious retort is that free Indians did.

And I might point out that even before slavery was abolished in the Caribbean, most of its free people were themselves black or mixed race. Free whites were such a tiny minority that they had been outnumbered by freed slaves and their descendents for a long long time.

And yet, those free black people stayed in the Caribbean. Very few of them emigrated. So it cannot have been as bad a place to be as you seem to think, as long as you were a free black person.

After all, the free white people had always been so heavily outnumbered that they had to maintain the loyalty of the free black people.

"The most racist societies in the world" were, and always had been, in the American South, where white people made up the majority of the population and were secure enough to indulge in luxuries like classical racism.

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Sorry, but the most racist area of the world is the Far East, a.k.a. the Orient. The Japanese, especially.

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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Evidentaly you do not understand the term. You do NOT have to pay a slave, just enough food to keep alive. Any cheap labor is still more expensive.

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I know this is a serious subject, but I just had to say...

But why male models???



"It's just a movie" is no excuse for treating us like idiots!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwRqc0KSkJ0

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One important thing to remember is the natural slave population increase that occurred in America. Slavery in the Caribbean under the British or French (while it existed) was far more brutal, and so new slaves needed to be imported constantly to keep the population up. Now, just be clear, I am in no way defending slavery, but in America, the slavery was not as harsh, and so slaves lived longer, and had more children. America actually banned the importation of slaves in 1808, and it turned out that importing them was unnecessary, as the population of slaves actually had an exponential increase. By 1860, there were almost 4 million slaves in America, whereas only about 650,000 were actually imported to the USA from Africa legally.

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I don't know about United States but I can tell you about Brazil, since I am brazilian.
The natives in Brazil did not obey or take any of the europeans teachings, they would rather die instead of being slaves, that is they culture and that is what they did, they didn't bow once for any european or whatever. They preferred to sacrifice themselves and die in pain as free men. The brazilian indians would receive visitors with joy but they wouldn't let them rule things, until nowadays they can be hostile, there are recent cases of journalists who tried to take pictures in the natives reservation and got beaten until death, I think they inheritated the bad feeling of the white men.
Why the africans accepted? In my opinion they were too much nice to the newcomers and I think they didn't see that coming, since in my view it isn't in their culture actions such harm and slave people.
The africans and natives of the countries involved were treated like animals, but for me the real animals were the europeans who raped the latin america and africa.

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So you're a racist, julianamonti, BRAVO!!!! Let's be real about racists like you speaking hate

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Hey folks,

Bringing people from Africa to the Americas to serve as slaves was quite an expensive enterprise. North America had an abundance of Native Americans who could be subjugated for a lot less cost than what it took to bring Africans here. In the eyes of the ruling white population, Native Americans really were not looked upon with any more favor than Africans, so this begs the question as to why Native Americans were not used for slave labor instead of Africans.

I suspect the basic reason more costly Africans were used instead of Native Americans was largely due to the type of work that was expected of the slave labor. The Americas in the time of slavery were mostly agrarian cultures, and this was especially true of the southern colonies and the Caribbean where plantation life both large and small were the norm. The Africans used for slaves came from cultures that were also agrarian in nature rather than hunter-gatherers. Other than initial language difficulties, African slaves were very adept at performing agrarian tasks. Native Americans, on the other hand, were not so agrarian by nature. Those in the East who were adept at agrarian life were already pushed out of the land. So many of the remaining Native Americans were largely hunter-gatherers who were basically nomadic and not very adept at an agrarian life.

In short, Native Americans did not serve the intended purpose of slaveowners as did Africans at the time. Slaveowners found Africans better suited for their agrarian needs than Native Americans and were willing to pay the high cost of obtaining the African slaves.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile


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Dave Wile;

It was pointed out by another poster in another thread on this board, but apparently you didn't read it.

An attempt was made to enslave Native Americans or American Indians, but it failed for the obvious reason that they can escape and go home. They know how to live off the land and navigate cross-country to rejoin their tribes.

Slaves imported from Africa cannot return home because three thousand miles is a heckuva lot of water to swim. Subsequent generations cannot blend in with the local population and must make it all the way to Canada to get free. In the meantime, there is no support network to help them. Near the time of the beginning of the Civil War the Underground Railroad was making strides in moving escaping slaves up to Canada, but it was a dangerous task.

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If anything of what you said is true, why do Brazilians speak Portuguese?

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Now hold on everyone, it was one of the debates in Congress at the time of Amistad. The free laborers in the North had a FAR lower standard of living than the slave laborers in the South.

Slaves were an investment and between the housing costs (which were better than the tenements in the North) the Food cost (again better) and the healthcare costs (once more, better) it actually cost more to own a slave than it did to hire a free laborer.

The pro-slavery movement pointed this out, & the fact that slaves had a higher standard of living than free laborers time & again when they were arguing against abolition.

But the economic structure was extremely different & we were still an agrarian nation with a developing industrial base.

The reason that slaves were preferred over free labor was migratory. In the industrialized north companies held free-labor as slaves through debt to the factory stores & factory housing.

In the south with growing seasons that would be a difficult prospect & the labor needed for the farm to prosper would be far from guaranteed. Slaves, on the other hand, were sedentary & able to diversify as, like on Jefferson's plantation, there were artisan slaves.

In other-words, as where bigotry no doubt played a role in slavery, the economic argument is slightly flawed. It actually did cost far more to own a slave than to higher a free man.

However, because of an economic base in agriculture, a diversification in slave labor, & the fact that slaves unlike free farm-workers were not migratory, the benefits far outweighed the costs thus making the South's "peculiar institution," as they called it, more profitable than the cheaper free labor.

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The free laborers in the North had a FAR lower standard of living than the slave laborers in the South.


If that were true, I would expect a fair number of free laborers to volunteer to be enslaved. How many did so?

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How many do you know who would willfully give their freedom and other basic human rights away, only to not have to provide for their livelihood by themselves?

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At the time, it would seem, the answer was - no one.

A lot of slaves tried to escape to freedom in the North, but no one seems to have gone south to volunteer to be enslaved.

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Hmm, good thinking I'd say. I'm not even sure if you find that surprising or what you're arguing here. Just look at the migrants from Africa drowning en route to France, UK and so on. I highly doubt they'd be taking equal risks if they knew they'd be facing good nutrition, health care but also a ball and chain at the end of their journeys.

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I can give you a very good answer to that from a different perspective. After 1961, when the Berlin Wall was built and the Non-Aligned countries have formed, many Westerners were aware, that all costs in the communist bloc was lower, than in the West.

Yet, guest workers in the GDR came from Angola, Vietnam, and neighboring socialist countries. The answer to that question is the same as to yours: political will. Slave economy, much like a plan based economy is unfit to compete with free trade and is doomed to fail. So, the political will behind it has to keep it up by violence, and they did, and wherever there's still slavery, they still do. Individuals rarely give up their personal freedom, if they don't have to, so paying half for things was not enticing enough to move to a society, where most of your neighbors would snitch you out.

As for Indians being legally free, I strongly recall, Gandhi's early protests in South Africa as a lawyer concerned the mandate toward Indians not being able to walk on the road, only beside it. So yes, the British exchanged African slaves for workers of other colonies, or half colonies, like China.

Circling back to the GDR, people accepted guest worker spots, because the wage was better. Claims by the pro-slavery movement on slavery not being cost effective is akin to the communist argument of workers having it better, than being under capitalist exploitation. In other words both being a lie. It wasn't done, because it was more effective, only the ruling class wanted it.

Technically I wasn't born a slave, but not as a free person either, a long iron curtain prevented me from choosing where I wished to go. You may interpret this as a divide between white people, because I stand by my view of equating colonialist slave traders to communists. What celebrating the 100th anniversary of the Bolshevik Revolution is to Russia is the Confederate heritage month to the South.

I live in the Gordius Apartment Complex, my interior designer was M.C. Escher.

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