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Joey & Pacey's Relationship Was An Absolute Train Wreck

posted 8 years ago by MackyVelli
32 replies | jump to latest

From the moment they stepped off that boat and were back in Capeside, it was one fight after another (usually centered around Joey being obsessed with Dawson and Pacey being an emotionally fragile and insecure child) and nothing but lies. The blow up at the prom was inevitable, frankly I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner.

Why do people fawn over this debacle of a 'relationship'? Comparing it to Dawson and Gretchen- a mature relationship built on trust and honesty... It's even more glaring just how much they didn't work as a couple. I guess the courtship stage was fun but the rest of it was pure dysfunction. I mean Joey couldn't find her boyfriend during a pregnancy scare because he was arrested for public intoxication and lied to her about it, as she had lied about them having slept together. Come on now...

Personally I don't see how their problems would be magically resolved following them being awkwardly forced together in the finale. Pacey would still have massive insecurity issues seeing as how Joey is an accomplished writer and graduate of the prestigious Worthington University (an education funded by Dawson) and Pacey is what... A busboy in a restaurant maybe? Not much you can do in NYC with just a High School diploma.

And worst yet, Joey seems to spend all her free time watching her childhood with Dawson play out on screen in perpetuity. She's still very obsessed with her soulmate. And once Dawson inevitably finds a new girl to obsess over now that he's rich, famous, and successful... Joey will automatically go into jealousy mode (like she did when Dawson stopped obsessing over her and looked to Jen, Gretchen, etc).

I honestly don't see that being the recipe for a long-lasting, meaningful relationship. But maybe that's just me.

[–] mysteryjdc 8 years ago

The reason people think they could work by series end is because the two big reasons you say they didn't work(Joey's jealously of Dawson, and Pacey's insecurity) were resolved by the end.

Joey finally figured out the exact relationship she had with Dawson. They were best friends. Soulmates. That's it. It took her a hell of a long time for her to figure that out, but she came to that realization by the end. Therefore the audience can assume she wouldn't be possessive or jealous of Dawson's future girlfriends is because she finally knows her place in Dawson's life, and it isn't romantic.

Same with Pacey. Pacey FINALLY realized that he needed to stop wallowing and complaining about his life. The speech he made to Joey said that he was determined to be happy. I think he came to the realization that sometimes being happy is a choice you have to make for yourself and that you have to stop always focusing on what you don't have. I don't see Pacey being jealous of Joey's success. I think he was more concerned that he wouldn't amount to anything and that's why he didn't think he was good enough for her. I don't know what he was doing in NY after moving there with Joey but at least we(and he) knows that he can run a successful business. He's not dead weight. He got his act together and knows his self worth.

After that, i think everything comes down to preferences. I did think they fought a lot but I thought they still cared very deeply for one another. In season 4 the two were obviously struggling in their relationship because the issues they faced were still new and they hadn't properly figured out how to address them. By series end I think they had. But hey, no one is a fan of everything.

[–] perfect_lover2012 8 years ago

Agreed. Joey and Pacey also had better chemistry and we're sexually attracted to each other. There's something entertaining about a couple who hates each other and grows to love one another.

"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children

[–] MackyVelli 8 years ago

The reason people think they could work by series end is because the two big reasons you say they didn't work(Joey's jealously of Dawson, and Pacey's insecurity) were resolved by the end.

They clearly weren't. Pacey losing all of Dawson's savings near the end brought back all the bad feelings from Season 4. All of that was still unresolved in the end with the forced relationship of P & J.

They were all strangers basically at the end, having rarely if ever seen each other in 5 years. Pacey was still a townie, still getting in trouble with older women. Joey was still obsessed with Dawson, she spent all her free time voyeuristically watching their relationship play out on TV.

Joey finally figured out the exact relationship she had with Dawson. They were best friends. Soulmates. That's it.

And how many times throughout the series did it happen that Joey 'finally' figured out that she wanted to be just friends with Dawson... Only for it to be revealed she was very much still obsessed with him? Even after she chose Pacey, she still had meltdowns after Dawson started dating Gretchen. There's nothing in the world that girl HATES than Dawson showing interest in another girl who isn't her.

And she said it a million times- a part of her will always be in love with Dawson... A fact that Pacey learned all too well. He'd always be the elephant in the room with her and Pacey, even being on the opposite coast.

[quote= perfect_lover2012]Agreed. Joey and Pacey also had better chemistry and we're sexually attracted to each other.[/quote]

And that's all it comes down to, especially for the female viewer fans. Never mind that Pacey was an AWFUL boyfriend who constantly lied, was immature, and manipulative... Someone who took out all his misguided insecurities on Joey. Women think Pacey/Joshua Jackson is cute so they overlook all of his glaring and obvious flaws. It's a superficial thing, nothing more.

I mean it got to the point that the so-called 'sexual chemistry' was non-existent and Pacey didn't even want to touch Joey. Literally couldn't stomach the idea of kissing her. He blew up at her and completely embarrassed her in front of the entire Senior class of Capeside High.

If it was Dawson doing those things to Joey, you'd think he was the second coming of Hitler and you'd see that relationship for the dysfunctional disaster that it was. But Pacey's soooo cute, so glad they ended up together tee hee. 

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] hollywoodgal23 7 years ago

Hear, hear!

[–] mysteryjdc 8 years ago

It sounds like you've already made up your mind. I don't think there's anything we can say that would change your mind. I think it really is very simple. You either bought the finale or you didn't. Sounds like you fall in the latter category. Which is fine. Can't like em all.

[–] MackyVelli 8 years ago

It's not even so much about the finale itself, which was pretty ridiculous. Personally I thought the show shouldn't have come down to Joey having to pick between her high school boyfriends who she hadn't seen in 5+ years. And for the record I don't think Joey and Dawson was a great relationship either.

I just find it strange that there are so many people who were wild about Pacey and Joey's relationship when it was by far the most dysfunctional and unhealthy relationship of DC.

[–] Scarlett_Butler 8 years ago

From the moment they stepped off that boat and were back in Capeside, it was one fight after another (usually centered around Joey being obsessed with Dawson and Pacey being an emotionally fragile and insecure child) and nothing but lies. The blow up at the prom was inevitable, frankly I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner.

Why do people fawn over this debacle of a 'relationship'?

I couldn't agree more.

They had a fight literally every episode they were a couple in season 4. It was exhausting. They really were a trainwreck.

Dawson/Gretchen was probably my favorite couple, if I had to choose.

[–] runnertimes 8 years ago

Well, as a fan of the couple, I like their friendship blossoming into romance in Season 3 the best. Season 4 was definitely a roller coaster. Seeing as how they had always butted heads in the past, it's not really that surprising that even once they were in a relationship, their fiery personalities would lead to conflict. But they still loved each other and had a lot of good moments, worked really hard at their relationship, and despite their issues, managed to stay in a committed relationship for a year. That was something Joey and Dawson could never do - they so easily fell apart every time they tried to embark on a romantic relationship.

The message I got from the series finale regarding Pacey was that he was stable in his professional life but still chased after the wrong women because deep down he loved Joey, and she was gone. He seems pretty content and secure in himself in that scene at the end - if he can be happy about an episode depicting the fake Joey choosing the fake Dawson over the fake Pacey, I'd say he's come a long way. (And I would hardly call Joey watching her lifelong best friend's TV show equal to being obsessed with him.) As for what Pacey would do in New York, I'd imagine having experience running his own restaurant would trump only having a high school diploma. I think he'd be able to get work as something higher up the food chain than a busboy - at least a restaurant manager of some kind.

[–] shrilltrills 8 years ago

Yeah, I didn't really buy them getting back together and actually lasting. All we saw was that they got back together in their mid-20s. We didn't see that they end up growing old together or anything like that. It makes the most sense that they probably broke up at some point.

As unpopular an opinion as this may be, I think Joey and Dawson, and Pacey and Andie, were the true pairings of this show. Even watching it all these years later, season 2 still gives me a nostalgic feeling that none of the other seasons do.

Joey and Pacey were just a typical high school couple. Joey and Dawson were epic. And Andie brought out the best in Pacey while Joey brought out the worst. It's not hard to see who was really meant to be here.

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] pennilayne 7 years ago

How were Joey and Dawon "epic" ??

They dated four months total out of a 6 year show and slept together 4 times or something in the span of one night out of a 6 year show. They fought all the time too! Even just as friends they constantly fought, had long drawn out conversations about their "friendship/romance" that always basically played out the same way "Things are changing Dawson...evolving... we are growing up" and he says "It doesn't have to be this way" and thats all that ever freaking happened! The writers really botched it when it came to the central relationships.

Joey and Dawson *could have* been something special but they never truly let it happen. Joey and Pacey were the most genuine relationship (even if they fought a lot) because neither one of them were ever rebounds or someone they used to feel good about themselves. Joey and Pacey genuinely fell in love out of becoming good friends, and realizing there was something more. Nothing else involved.

Gretchen was a rebound for Dawson. A crutch that helped him deal with Pacey and Joey being real. He even made a move to have sex with Gretchen after he found out Joey finally lost her virginity to Pacey. He even said to Gretchen "I am glad I know it happened. It basically and finally puts the final nail in the coffin of Joey and Dawson" and she got pissed and left!!!! She totally got he wasn't truly over her.

Joey and Dawson had a strong friendship, which drifted but we were supposed to buy it didn't drift really. In season 6 when they finally had sex that *was* special, and I bought it. After all those years they finally just effing had sex and it meant something, of course. But they couldn't even start dating because Joey was too childish to start anything finding out about Natasha. And Dawson wasn't even really over Natasha as it plays out in Season 6.

Joey and Dawson always thought they wanted one another, and in theory thought they were meant to be or were soul mates, and they were kind of soul mates in that they grew up together and would never forget one another and always want to stay in touch but it was so clear that Joey became this fixation/unhealthy obsession to Dawson and Dawson was a puppy love, security blanket ego boosting, fantasy that Joey had but never actually felt strongly enough to act on.

They should have 1) Shown more closure after the Pacey and Joey break up which actually was a terrible break up. Him screaming at her saying he didn't feel good enough and taking it out on her and them never EVER having a long drawn out conversation about it after they broke up or when they finally first saw each other in Season 5 You'd think after the drawn out snooze fest conversations they devoted to other characters, essp Joey and Dawson theyd resolve the J&P thing since clearly, Andi was someone to Pacey yes and he loved her yes but she also wasn't his true love and she brought out the best in him because she got him to do better in school and he could help her because she had anxiety/depression and he was there for her feeling like a hero--- Andi made him feel good about himself, not because he was head over heels--- she gave him all the feels for himself not her-- and he never had all the feels he had about Joey for her. Yes I loved their relationship but he wasnt crazy about her like she was for him. He was crazy about Joey. 2) Had Joey and Pacey date again OR Joey and Dawson actually date for real again but these things never happened.

Whether you buy the finale or not (even though I enjoyed Pacey and Joey together, I thought it was silly five years later she suddenly discovers she wants Pacey?) They should have had them date a bit before or something not the dabblings of what they did with them in season 6, it was dumb.

But anyone who says Dawson and Joey's actual "relationship" all four months of it Sophomore year is more epic than Pacey and Joey hasn't been in a real, incredible "in love, head over heels" relationship whether you fight all the time or not. I did hate how they turned Pacey into a big baby being with Joey but it was only because he loved her so much he wanted to feel good enough and never did--- until Season 6. And the finale, five years later when he ran and owned his own restaurant and grew up! So yeah I could see it working better in terms of them growing the eff up in lots of ways. But it was rushed. The actors wanted out of the show so bad the writers rushed the finale and rushed season 6 so us die hard fans didn't get to see it play out how it should have.

[–] rainbow26 7 years ago

EXCELLENT post, Pennilayne. I agree 100%.

[–] timpolcha 7 years ago

Very well said.

The reason Dawson and Joey never worked out was because it wasn't a relationship based on anything other than comfort. It was like a kid with a blanky they don't want to let go of. It's why they were always so on again and off again.

Joey and Pacey fought a lot but their relationship was passionate and had substance. Their problems were indirectly about Dawson, but directly about Joey's reluctance to grow up and move on with her life and Pacey's insecurities which he had serious trouble growing out of and moving on from.

In my honest opinion the relationship that Joey and Pacey had was a microcosm for the entire show which was about a group f teenage navigating through the difficult and awkward teen years, and ultimately the acceptance that comes with growing up and maturing. When Joey was totally ready to let go of her childhood and the extremely comfortable relationship she had with Dawson and Pacey was able to grow into a confident man who knew he was good enough for Joey, they were able to be together in a true relationship.

[–] kimmie_baever 7 years ago

Exactly. Well put.

[–] mistymturnerhustad 7 years ago

I loved Pacey and Joey, but by the end I am not sure it made sense for them to end up together, but it certainly have made less sense for her to end up with Dawson. Both times she was with Dawson she dumped him. She chose Jack over him. She chose Pacey over him twice. They were never together more than a month at a time. How is any of that epic? The fact is Dawson was never more than a childhood fantasy that Joey had built up in her head so much that the real never lived up. I was really rooting for them in season two, but after the relationship fell apart the second time, it was obvious Dawson was just never gonna make her happy.

Andie did bring out the best in Pacey that I agree with but she broke his heart and he just couldn't get over it. I accepted that. The fact is I really loved them together, but even before Pacey fell for Joey, my thought process was if Pacey couldn't forgive Andie under those circumstances then may be it just wasn't meant to be.

Pacey and Joey were by far my favorite couple in the series, but by the end I didn't really even see them ending up together. I can let go. I personally just don't understand people that can't let go of a couple no matter how the show portrays that they are never going to end up together.

[–] bishop-69757 8 years ago

I hated the idea from the start of Joey and Pacey. I never found the show that good after that. Dawson was annoying at times but lost all respect for those two and I would never talk to them again if I was in Dawson's shoes.

[–] Takedi21 8 years ago

I hated the idea from the start of Joey and Pacey. I never found the show that good after that. Dawson was annoying at times but lost all respect for those two and I would never talk to them again if I was in Dawson's shoes.

I agree. I just finished watching season 4, and I feel like the writers had totally redeemed Dawson after the horrible way that he was written in season 3 (actually season 3 as a whole in general was horribly written, but that's a whole other topic altogether). Right from the very start of season 4 and consistently throughout the whole entire season Dawson's character had remained mature. He handled all of the situations that were thrown his way in season 4 a lot better than he did in season 3. The best part of it all is that his composure was totally real & genuine (IMHO). You see it in the season 4 premiere episode, and you see it all throughout season 4, Dawson is genuinely over the whole Pacey & Joey drama. Granted he does still really care about those two (that's never ever going to change), but he legitimately got over the drama rather than pretending to be over it. I loved all of the things that they did with Dawson's character in that season (made him much closer friends with Jen, Jack, & Andie, giving him a newfound interest into photography, & his whole storyline with Mr. Brooks). I also really love that he was in a relationship with Gretchen too as well. Gretchen was such a chill, laid-back, & totally awesome character who is leagues more mature than Joey is. They had complimented each other as a couple. He was mature, and she was mature.

The show lost it's way without Kevin Williamson. I do feel like season 4 however on the other hand was the closest thing to a season with a quality of writing on the level of seasons 1-2.

[–] XOXOgossipgirl11 8 years ago

For me it's not so much that I liked Pacey and Joey as a couple- I just loved Pacey and was happy to see him "get the girl." I actually don't care much for Joey at all and preferred Pacey with Andie.

[–] perfect_lover2012 8 years ago

Same!! Pacey and Andie were everything.

"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children

[–] XOXOgossipgirl11 8 years ago

Ugh I know! i wish Andie would've stuck around or at least came back in the end :(

[–] Denys407 7 years ago

If I'm not mistaken...she does come back for the finale for a little while....from what I remember.

[–] perfect_lover2012 7 years ago

She does but only on some extended version. I saw the last episode for the first time on Youtube and Andie showed up. When I rewatched it on tv they didn't show her at all.

"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children

[–] pennilayne 8 years ago

but pacey always described andie and his "love" for her more about her making him a better guy. helping him with his grades. she had emotional trauma and he was strong enough to take care of her. it all made HIM feel good about HIMSELF. he didnt mention all the things he ever loved soely about HER. whereas he went on and on and on about all the little things and big things he obsessed over Joey. he even said "shes the kind of beautiful that gives you butterflies" -- and he started his relationship with Andie dancing with the hot cheerleader, then chasing after her when he realized the only girl interested in him was about to pass him off. he took Andie for granted, and i always wondered....it seemed like Pacey ended up being Joey's "first love" not Dawson. that was always puppy love and infatuation and egos/jealousy and possession. Pacey was Andie's first love but it seems like Joey was Pacey's first real love. He was OBSESSED. He showed a lot of care and love and appreciation towards Andie---- but didnt put her up on a pedestal like he did Joey. And again unfortunately as cute as they were, it bothered me that it seemed like that whole relationship was more about bringing up Pacey's ego than him being head over heels for Andie. I think he loved Andie, but Joey was always his first real big love. Which bothers me because him and Andie had potential had the writers shown Pacey to be more into Andie for her and not what she did for him. But maybe thats how the writers wanted it. Like Andie was just a stepping stone for Pacey to be a better guy, only to then get the attention of Joey who he wanted all along.

[–] simba122504 8 years ago

Joey and Pacey grew up. That teenager foolishness was left in the past. Dawson would be gay if the show was created today. He should have been gay along but it was the '90s and he was the lead character.

Clark's destiny = Superman, LL &LL.

[–] taniapaolini 8 years ago

Not true, sorry. KW said Dawson's Creek was a ''Dawson & Joey love story'' thing when the show start. He never wanted a gay Dawson at all. The show was just ispired by his life, it's not a biography.

Note: My english is bad, sorry. I'm italian.