"Violate my mind like that?!"
Um gurl, you used a spell to stop all the scooby seeing your demon side, which would have messed with their minds- and DID in a BAD WAY! Almost got them all killed!
I mean, yes Willow had a problem, and what she did was waaayyyyyy out of line, but Tara, i see you gurl! You ran to magic too!
I think with Tara it's a bit more of a gray area. Tara was acting from a place of fear, established from a genuinely life long form of emotional abuse ingrained into her - ostensibly since birth, and applied to her mother as well - that there was something in her that was to be ashamed of and kept hidden from everyone. Her spell was an act of desperation, and was arguably intended as a step towards freeing herself of the toxic environment her family had held her in. She could have acquiesced and gone with her family, letting the fear totally win out over her feelings for Willow, and the spark of what she saw as potential friendships with other people, but instead she chose the life of greater promise, even as she still gave in to at least part of that fear. She saw the possibility of people accepting her the way she saw herself, and she wanted to embrace it. Sure, it backfired, but in large part because everything that she had been lead to believe about herself turned out to be a lie. She tried to hide something in her that wasn't there.
Willow on the other hand was operating on purely selfish motivations; she and Tara had a heated disagreement, Willow naturally felt she was right - though who holds an opinion they believe is wrong? - but she took it a step further and forced Tara's compliance through magic. And to top it off, she saw nothing wrong with what she did; in fact she felt so justified, she tried it again, and decided to mold Buffy to fit the form Willow thought was ideal. It would have been one thing if she asked Buffy if she wanted to forget or in some other way alter through magic her memories of her experience in heaven. If Buffy said yes, that would be her prerogative to make that choice; and it wouldn't fundamentally differ from real victims of traumatic events seeking treatment that helps them cope by desensitizing their perceptions of the trauma.
Tara essentially turned off the proverbial lights, to hide a part of herself she thought she'd be rejected for; failing to realize the dangerous neighborhood they live in, and the threats that might take advantage of the cover of darkness; and without any concept that they'd be able to. Not only was her response to realizing the dangerous, unintended side-effects of her actions heartfelt and contrite, she was willing to submit to the emotional abuses of her family for the rest of her life - definitely being demeaned by her family, most likely forced to forsake her magic, and perhaps even have her sexuality be denied by her family and be forced into a marriage to a man - all as a sort of penance once she realized the possible scope of her mistake.
Meanwhile, Willow actions amounted to drugging and secretly subjecting the woman she loved to involuntary electroshock therapy; purely so Willow could end an argument that cast her behavior negatively and inconvenienced her. That following a long history of similar selfish actions that produced negative consequences, which she barely accepted the onus of, much less learned from (whereas Tara arguably did learn from her mistake, and wouldn't have made such a rash decision again. Willow's actions also failed to consider that her actions reflected what Glory did to Tara; forcing Tara to effectively relive a terrible personal violation, this time at the hands of the person she trusted most). And rather than understanding all of that what she did was wrong, Willow tries to do it again after she's found out; to Tara, as well as her best friend, and ended up accidentally doing it to everyone. Then she walks away still not seeing any fundamental problem with her behavior that has to be addressed; and it's not until she endangers Dawn's life, injuring her and losing Buffy's respect, that Willow decides to make any sort of change. The fact that the writers inexplicably chose to pursue that change, or its root cause, as some sort of dependency issue, muddles whether or not Willow actually learned anything about the consequences of her actions prior to killing Warren and Xander getting through to her.
"You can lead a hearse to water, but you can't make it sink." The Cat
After all these years, questions like these still come up about this show and people still write an essay trying to answer it.
Eternal damnation to those who are taking these boards away from us!
This such a great post. I completely agree.
"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica D: sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children
Yes, that's a good point and I never considered that but hers was for everyone in general so they wouldn't find out her great secret, Willow's was a much more intimate and selfish betrayal.
shareYes, that's a good point and I never considered that but hers was for everyone in general so they wouldn't find out her great secret, Willow's was a much more intimate and selfish betrayal.
Tara was definitely wrong. And she learned she was wrong. It's not hypocritical to tell people not to make the same mistakes you did.
But Willow went further to actually erase Tara's memories. This was a much bigger betrayal especially in light of what Glory had done to her.
Seize the moment, 'cause tomorrow you might be dead.
Tara was definitely wrong. And she learned she was wrong. It's not hypocritical to tell people not to make the same mistakes you did.
But Willow went further to actually erase Tara's memories. This was a much bigger betrayal especially in light of what Glory had done to her.
Can we mention the fact that Tara wouldn't have done what she did if her Father hadn't flat out LIED TO HER that she was part demon in the first place? Yes Tara is still responsible for what she did, but in alot of ways she was still the abused little girl trying to escape any way she could. And I'm not entirely sure the abuse was only verbal, since her brother didn't hesitate to threaten to "beat her down" when she refused to leave with them. And even when he's caught in his lie, Tara's dad refuses to admit he did anything wrong. Instead, he switches tactics and tries to guilt her, after what he did. He owed Tara and everybody else in the room an apology for what he started with his lies.
shareNot really the same thing the purpose of Tara's spell was that she hoped that she could hide the fact that she was a demon her intentions were to just feel normal in front of her friends and everyone else but Willow really just wanted to control Tara. Tara's spell was probably more similar to a magical concealer or filter whereas what Willow did was straight erasing her memories. Not the same thing and one came from a place of fear and confusion and the other was just selfishness and arrogance.
shareI disagree about the degree of Willow's selfishness in her actions: she has also come from a background of negligent parenting, where she is considered less of a daughter than a study specimen. If that.
This has contributed to a deep lack of self-confidence. This has led to an extremely restricted ability to make friends, or to rely on herself, or to be comfortable with criticism, which translates to her as a threat to friendship. She is even more isolated and unsure of herself than Xander is. She is deeply dependent on the few human contacts she has and is easily unbalanced by a perceived rift in those contacts. There is fear inherent in her erasing of Tara's memories because she is unable to emotionally distinguish between a strong disagreement and the threat of losing her lover. Ironically, of course, her fear leads to exactly that.
I disagree about the degree of Willow's selfishness in her actions: she has also come from a background of negligent parenting, where she is considered less of a daughter than a study specimen. If that.First of all, this wasn't mousy Willow from season 1, who was more comfortable blending in with the background and not having anyone notice her. This is the woman who took on a god - twice. Second, this wasn't a one time thing for Willow, but a pattern of behavior stemming from general sense of superior judgment. We se throughout the rest of the series, or at least the window with Tara in it, that being a Wicca and practicing magic is a very serious things to Tara. She didn't take using magic lightly, and by all account this one issue - the fear of the anger and disgust she was brought up believing she'd face if people knew what she was - was such a defining insecurity that it was the only instance that would otherwise challenge her beliefs about how magic should be used. She intentionally sabotaged the locator spell meant to identify all of the demons in Sunnydale, because she didn't want to show up on that map. And she tried to cloak a part of herself that she feared people she was closest to might reject.
This has contributed to a deep lack of self-confidence. This has led to an extremely restricted ability to make friends, or to rely on herself, or to be comfortable with criticism, which translates to her as a threat to friendship. She is even more isolated and unsure of herself than Xander is. She is deeply dependent on the few human contacts she has and is easily unbalanced by a perceived rift in those contacts.
As "Restless" shows, Willow has not outgrown the mousy girl from high school; her monologue to Buffy at Rack's is also evidence that she is still, at bottom, the girl who has no belief in herself and who lost more than we can know with Tara.
Much of what she does stems from her extreme loneliness and her uncertainty in how to communicate with the world at large. Her physical modesty and her quirky use of language attest to a person who has learned to relate to and entertain herself because few other people know what she has to offer.
That "superiority" that you perceive, I perceive as a defense mechanism to Willow's insecurity. It's her mask. When it drops, we get glimpses - big ones - of the vulnerability and fear underneath. It isn't that she knows better than anyone else; it's that from the beginning, the only thing she's been valued for is what her brain can offer to solve problems. It's the only thing that others have been willing to value her for. If she feels that one thing to be threatened, she is going to defend it, sometimes beyond rationality.
I do not think she intended to debase Tara the way Warren debased Katrina. Warren acted out of resentment toward Katrina, and a desire to objectify and possess. Willow acted out fear that the fight with Tara meant she might lose her. She acted out of a desire to wipe out the memory of the fight, not to have sex with Tara. There is a huge difference in motive.
Therefore I disagree very strongly with your assessment of Willow's actions as petulant or ego-driven. Absence of ego, is, in fact, part of Willow's root difficulty.
I would disagree with that assessment of "Restless." She fears that people still see her as weak, that the woman she's become is just a façade or costume, but actions speak louder than words; when you beat up your robot boyfriend, impress the hell out of a lower being like D'Hoffryn with a 'thy will be done' spell, but most importantly by going toe to toe with a literal god - twice - she can definitively be said far more than the wallflower she used to be. But that's the thing about an egomaniac or megalomaniac, no matter how far you come, no matter what you have, whether you're the most powerful witch in the western hemisphere or a loudmouth billionaire who wins the presidency through a quirk of geography; the slightest perceived slight or suggestion that they are in any way less than they are, even when blatantly untrue, elicits indignation and a kneejerk defense response prove any critics wrong.
Willow needs to be the best, the greatest, most fabulous and powerful witch ever; and Tara questioned that aspiration, and that instead she should be held back and her judgment impugned. An adult would either offer a reasonable responsible as to why or how their behavior is justified, or objectively recognize and respect the value of an outside opinion offering constructive criticism and concern if your rationalization isn't there. Instead, and in lieu of being able to calm Tara's concerns by justifying her behavior, Willow chose to end the argument and return to the status quo through a gross violation of Tara's perception of reality. Tara was upset and Willow used magic to make her docile, solely to avoid an argument that impugned Willow's judgment.
"You can lead a hearse to water, but you can't make it sink." The Cat
We part company strongly on this issue: if "Restless" showed what Willow thought other people thought of her, and if her nature was that of an egomaniac, her reaction to their mockery would have been much more aggressive. Her reaction was to shrink within herself and to watch the interaction between Tara and Oz with helplessness. The conclusion I draw from that is that her fear is that this is what she really is.
You can do many impressive things and still be shy and a wallflower. You can still be unsure of yourself in society, which is sometimes a far greater monster than any vampire. You can still feel isolated from people and feel especially close to only a small group of friends and loved ones.
Willow is not striving to be the most fabulous witch ever; she is striving to be the best witch she can be. As it happens, she has a lot of power and potential, so there is a lot to learn, to harness, and to draw on.
She has not had the leisure to learn the way Amy has, or Tara has. She is learning on the fly. She is learning during battles; often she has to dig deep because lives are on the line, and knowing how to master supernatural forces is vital. It's not (only) that she wants to be the best she can be; she has no choice, given the circumstances of being on the Hellmouth and committing to helping Buffy fight.
Willow strives to be the best; she fails often but keeps at it. This kind of thing is part of what has helped the Scoobies against many of their enemies. Her dogged determination to, yes, bring back Angel's soul (twice), find ways to use data to help win a battle, are not to be belittled or seen only through the lens of needing to be the best. This is not, to my mind, egomaniacal behavior. It's driven behavior, in the way that, say, the Curies' were driven during their often discouraging uncovering of radium, or Einstein's search for the theory of relativity, or Bors' founding of his Institute at Copenhagen. When Willow catches an idea or a possibility, she chases it and grapples with it until she has the solution. The more something eludes her, the more she goes after it.
When they have need of this capability, the Scoobies, Giles included, are all too happy to exploit it. There is a dark side to this, as there is a dark side to all of their gifts, and here is where Willow is especially dangerous, because her insecurities, wed to her powers, makes her unstable and prone to use her magic to solve emotional crises, as opposed to articulating them. But this is a weakness all the younger Scoobies have, and it's why she is not able to approach Tara's anger in a reasonable fashion:
Like the other Scoobies, she lacks the capability to articulate and confide when it counts most. It's a failing belonging to all three of the core Scoobies and one that keeps the three of them in a sort of holding pattern of immaturity. It feeds into things like "Hell's Bells" for Xander, or the run through the woods after Riley when it's too late for Buffy. To my mind, it's a consequence of being on the battle lines from the time of mid-teens. A certain degree of maturing is lost. It's part of the price they pay for living and surviving as an aware force on the Hellmouth.
Her reaction was to shrink within herself and to watch the interaction between Tara and Oz with helplessness.I think you're overstating her "reaction" in her dream; and again, everything she did in the actual, waking world would contradict that exponentially. And someone who's an egomaniac or a megalomaniac, can be reserved, but still be driven to prove their superiority. They don't have instantly become a rage machine, set them in motion. This was a glimpse into her inner psyche, this is, on some level, something she already subjects herself on a regular basis, keeping herself moving forward in order to defy the expectations she assumes everyone is whispering about her.
Willow is not striving to be the most fabulous witch ever; she is striving to be the best witch she can be.Literally the exact same thing I said, but with difference words and less hyperbolic, but okay....
She has not had the leisure to learn the way Amy has, or Tara has.And she doesn't want to. No one was forcing her to exponentially expand her depths of power; and more importantly she was constantly be cautioned against the level of power she was trying to obtain and the speed at which she thirst for that power. She equated her self-worth with her rate of growth, even as she surpassed some of the most impressive witches she encountered. She ignored the wisdom of people like Giles, who felt she was trying to learn too much, too quickly, without properly understanding the nature of the power she was trying to harness; and that disagreement came to ahead when Giles called her a rank amateur for bringing Buffy back from the dead. That time she did aggressively snap at him, leveling a veiled threat about pissing off someone as powerful as her, and denying any part of her claims about being an amateur. And the whole thing further developed to the point where this mentality manifested itself physically with the growth of her power; to the point that any time she became aggravated or stressed, her eyes would turn black, along with varying degrees of her hair color, and she would lose all sense of civility - like when she had to tap into her powers to stop the demon Anya summoned to kill the frat boys, in order to protect herself and the girl. The girl is terrified, but Willow has to bring out of her something that almost becomes a separate persona, who berates this terrified girl, just so she can wield that power. She so closely tied her magical powers and unbridled ambition and the utter disregard for social niceties, that accessing the one could bring out the rest.
I believe that our life experiences are making us see Willow in extremely different ways - you and I are going to disagree; nothing we can say to each other will change our perspectives. I do not yield to your point of view, but respect it. I see her core character and development very differently and understand that you will not see my view, and I hope that you will respect my view.
Thank you for a lively and thoughtful argument.
Giles would also disagree.
"You can lead a hearse to water, but you can't make it sink." The Cat
At some points yes, but at some points he depended on Willow's powers as much as the others did.
As is human, the Scoobies all drew on Willow's capabilities when they needed them and thought better of it at leisure.
But a periodic acceptance to benefit from what she can do - which should be noted that he is more often the voice in caution and reluctance for Willow to use magic, especially as time goes on - it doesn't change his the fundamental reason for his objection; which is that she is trying to take on too much power and knows too little about it to wield it responsibly. He was hiding materials from her as early as season 3, and by season 6 she's pushed him to the point where he finally takes her to task for being so careless. Buffy's resurrection personifies this point; he is of course overwhelmed with joy that Buffy's alive, but that doesn't change his opinion that what Willow did was abhorrent and irresponsible. That wasn't just a measure of her becoming "the best". When she tries to say she's unique in her talent, but Giles qualifies that by saying that there are other people who could do what she did, and that she wouldn't want to meet them. And at the mere question of her competency to wield the power she has, she does become angry and overtly aggressive; leveling a veiled threat that he shouldn't question someone as powerful as she is. That is typical of her response when backed into a corner, or when her proficiency at something she prides herself on is impugned. When she felt slighted by Oz when everything went down with Verruca, her first instinct was to cast a spell to get revenge. Giles insults her prowess and competency, she threatens to use her magic against him. Warren kills her girlfriend, she takes on all the power and magic she can get her hands on and skins and immolates him, then goes after two other people, who may not have been without some serious fault, but had nothing to do with Tara's death; and she was willing to take down her own best friend for daring to stand in her way. And Giles' response to that? To allow himself to be charged with enough power to oppose and stop her from becoming what he had ostensibly trying to prevent her all along.
No matter what the show tried to sell it as, that wasn't addiction; the moment Tara died we see that by that point she hadn't really needed any of the trinkets and whatnot to do a spell, and that she was really just suppressing magic that was there all along. It wasn't some state dependent behavior that made her act that way, it was her letting out everything that was already there. It was pure ego, run roughshod over her commonsense or rational thinking of her friends. And in that state she made no pretense about what she wanted or how she wanted to get it; she drained the books, she drain Wrack, she drained Giles, she nearly drained Dawn. And it was good to the last drop, and after her thirst was sated, she was prepared to crack the world open and end it all, for everyone.
Giles knew the only way to get through to her was to enable her to feel the pain of the world, and for someone to reach her on an emotional level. That's what she had been missing, what she kept failing to understand when she and Tara fought in the first place, leading to Willow wiping her memory. Willow couldn't comprehend the immorality, much less the risk, of taking it upon herself to zap a crowded room of presumably innocent people into some alternate dimension, even for a second, just to look for Dawn. She couldn't fathom how anything might go wrong, in spite of all the many times in her past that it had. She believed it would be fine, and no one else could suggest otherwise; she agrees that Tara should just "shut her mouth" rather than dissent at something that could be very dangerous; because it was what Willow wanted to do. That's not ambitious or noble, it doesn't offer anything positive to the expansion of human knowledge; it was arrogant and selfish, and she was indignant for anyone, even Tara, to challenge her.
"You can lead a hearse to water, but you can't make it sink." The Cat
Instead of hiding things from her, he should have faced the potential in her head-on, found someone to be her guide and her watcher so that she could be properly and fully trained. It was foolish, blind, and almost cowardly to take that route.
He should have found someone mature and empathetic to understand her vulnerabilities and insecurities so that her power could be properly channeled, instead of thinking that if she couldn't have it in front of her things could be "controlled". If he had done that, instead of viewing her as a part-time project and something to be put on a leash, then none of your examples would have occurred, and Willow would have profited in more than one way. She was used when needed and put aside when not. Her needs were not met until after Season Six, when she was finally put into an environment where her powers and her need for discipline were properly addressed in England. Far too little, far too late.
I disagree strongly with you that ego was involved in any of the actions Willow took after Tara's death. What was released was the fury and despair that had been building up in her all her life. Commonsense had no match against such a feeling of loss and grief. That was not ego. The draining of the books was to have been a charge so that she could give Warren what he deserved; the energy of the darkness overcame her in the same that (yes I'm going there) a drunken fit can overcome another person's commonsense.
In the end, it was Xander who called her back, with love and with a refusal to abandon her. This, more than Giles dumping power into her, was what brought her back to human Willow.