MovieChat Forums > The New Batman Adventures (1997) Discussion > Does anybody accept this as part of the ...

Does anybody accept this as part of the BTAS canon?

posted 13 years ago by ExplorerDS6789
33 replies | jump to latest

Me personally, I don't. Just because they got the same actors and the same three guys worked on it, doesn't necessarily mean it's an official continuation of the original series.
One contributing factor besides the RIDICULOUS looks of the characters is that if you look at the last few episodes of Batman: The Animated Series, they really seem to tie up any and all loose ends before the series finishes. Looking at them in production order (order on DVD) and not when they ended.

Just look at what befalls the villains:

"Harley's Holiday" saw Harley make amends with Batman, and since The Joker doesn't appear, it's apparent she's not with him anymore.
"Make'em Laugh" saw The Joker get one last hurrah before going back to incarceration, and The Mad Hatter became a victim of his own mind control devices.
"Deep Freeze" saw Mr. Freeze reunited with his wife, and his story comes full circle in "SubZero".
In "Second Chance", Two Face was caught and The Penguin was safely in Stonegate.
In "House and Garden", Poison Ivy did get away, but in "Harley's Holiday", she was right back in Arkham.
"Riddler's Reform" saw The Riddler put away for good and being driven insane even further.
"Showdown" saw Ra's al Ghul as not much of a threat anymore as he just wanted to collect the son he claimed he never had.
"Time Out of Joint" saw The Clock King arrested.
"Mudslide" saw Clayface just...melt away.
In "Batgirl Returns", I believe Catwoman was going straight, and it got to the point where Batman could sit the episode out so Robin and Batgirl could handle the city, what with all the Rogues' Gallery captured or no longer threats.

With all these loose ends tied, why did they have to unravel them for an inferior "sequel" series? Especially undoing Mr. Freeze's happy ending! That was terrible.

[–] Count_Sarge 13 years ago

It is. Whatever you like it or not it is.

So, just like Static Shock, Justice League, Batman Beyond and Superman are all the same universe. In fact, that is sadly a trend in DC animated shows. They are always left with loose ends. Static Shock, Superman, Batman Beyond, and The Zeta Project were suppose to get another season in their time, but unfortunately didn't. Something happen to Batman.

We just have to assume everything resolved off-screen. We do see Harley and Joker together again in "Wild Cards", and Freeze is in the Batman Beyond episode "Meltdown". We see The Clock King in Justice League Unlimited. Clayface is in Justice League too and well......you should see the episode he is in if you haven't already. Penguin is in the Batwoman film, and we know the Joker's final stand in "Return of the Joker". Batman Beyond heavily implied Selina did went straight. And even part of the bat family.

Poison Ivy, and Two-Face are the only ones plot who have gone unresolved.

Btw, how is this series inferior? In terms of character designs then yes, but story? I don't get that. They were just as dark as ever. Nothing changed in terms of maturity of the content.

“A ridiculously small group of my most incompetent and silliest troops awaits them."

[–] ExplorerDS6789 13 years ago

Says you.

[–] Count_Sarge 13 years ago

“A ridiculously small group of my most incompetent and silliest troops awaits them."

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] ExplorerDS6789 13 years ago

"Well, just in case you are: says the creator, the production staff, and Warner Bros."

Well I don't believe sellouts. They think that just because they have the same producers and same actors that it's the same show? It isn't. Not by a mile. Just look how horribly the characters are drawn (with the exceptions of Bane, Scarecrow and Batgirl), and they forgot so much of the development that came from BTAS. This second series flat out insults it.
You know why it was made? Money. WB wanted them to create some new Batman episodes to tie in with their Superman cartoon, and told them to make it look like crap to save money. Long story short, Bruce Timm sold out.

By the way, did you know that Paul Dini said he got the idea for "Over the Edge" from watching The Simpsons? How did that happen? How does that episode and The Simpsons have anything in common? Or did I miss the episode where Milhouse and Lisa are playing on a high building, then Lisa falls and dies and Homer swears blood vengeance against Milhouse, but it all turns out to be a dream?

Batman: The Animated Series was made with integrity. The New Batman Adventures was made squarely to sell toys. Sure BTAS had toys too, and I had plenty of them, because I loved the show. It didn't try to talk down to me and sell me stuff.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] ExplorerDS6789 13 years ago

'My guess is that you're probably fairly batsh!t over a lot of other things too. Are you a birther, creationist, or flat-earth person? Do you ever wear tin foil caps?"

And do you smoke crack?

Just curious.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] ExplorerDS6789 13 years ago

Whatever. Your opinion means nothing to me.

[–] Count_Sarge 13 years ago

Calm down kiddies! If you like the "New Adventures" your allowed to like it, and if you don't then your allowed to do that too. :-)

Personally, Justice League/Unlimited blows all other DCAU installments away, but Batman: TAS/New Adventures is a close second. That's right! I consider them one series!

And the only thing Bruce Timm should be ashamed of was the several times he made Batman look like, Bat-God.

And made Superman into a weak punk at times.

Seriously.

“A ridiculously small group of my most incompetent and silliest troops awaits them."

[–] ExplorerDS6789 13 years ago

The New Batman Adventures is basically a stand-alone series. You can't make me believe it's meant to officially follow Batman: The Animated Series. Does it continue any of the plotlines? WITHOUT cheating?

Oh, and did I mention they botched up Clayface's story too? Remember at the end of "Mudslide", he completely dissolves in the water. Yet in TNBA's "Growing Pains", it shows a few lumps of clay having survived.
If they wanted to use Clayface for the new series, why not go with one of the others? Remember in the comics Matt Hagen was only the second Clayface. Basil Karlo was the first. Why couldn't they use him?

Plus, did they really need to use Harley that much? Sure she's a great character and really funny, but after 100 appearances she just gets annoying.

The New Batman Adventures is nothing but a joke, made to cash in on an already successful series, and without NEARLY as much effort as the original series.

[–] Count_Sarge 13 years ago

I never cared to much about Clayface at all so, him returning or not was never really factor to me.

I can see why Clayface fans would be disappointed though, his episode in Justice League wasn't a proper send-off either.

As for the redesigns...This might shock people on this board, but I have absolutely no problem with most of them.

Harley, Bane, and Two-Face were essentially the same so, no reason to complain there.

Scarecrow was so much better!

Penguin changed look to a normal-looking guy was alright too. He was essentially just a ugly mobsters in the comics anyway, and I was never to big on the deformed-look anyway.

Poison Ivy wasn't to changed either just more pale, and less weird looking then in the original Batman: TAS.

Riddler's new design wasn't to bad either. But, this is one case where I do prefer the original design.

The only ones I found right our horrid were Catwoman, Mad Hatter, and Arnold Wesker. Seriously, what were they thinking with these 3?

All Joker needed was his red lips, and less cartoony eyes, and I would have been alright with him.

I don't think of "New Adventures" as a joke. I'd rather have a 100 cartoons like "Gotham Knights" then majority of the shows that pass for cartoons today.

As, for selling out....in terms of character design your probably right. The designs were clearly weaker for the most part.

“A ridiculously small group of my most incompetent and silliest troops awaits them."

[–] ExplorerDS6789 13 years ago

"As for the redesigns...This might shock people on this board, but I have absolutely no problem with most of them."

Unfortunately you're in the minority.

'Poison Ivy wasn't to changed either just more pale, and less weird looking then in the original Batman: TAS."

You really thought she was weird looking in the original show?

"Penguin changed look to a normal-looking guy was alright too. He was essentially just a ugly mobsters in the comics anyway, and I was never to big on the deformed-look anyway."

I'm just glad they kept Paul Williams. His voice is "new" Penguin's only saving grace for me.

"The only ones I found right our horrid were Catwoman, Mad Hatter, and Arnold Wesker. Seriously, what were they thinking with these 3?"

They just weren't trying.

"All Joker needed was his red lips, and less cartoony eyes, and I would have been alright with him."

Absolutely. His third design in Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker was excellent.

"I'd rather have a 100 cartoons like "Gotham Knights" then majority of the shows that pass for cartoons today."

Guess you have a point there.

"As, for selling out....in terms of character design your probably right. The designs were clearly weaker for the most part."

Right, and can you believe they actually praised them on the Volume 4 DVD, saying they preferred them to the BTAS designs?

[–] Count_Sarge 13 years ago

Unfortunately you're in the minority.

:-( Haha, I know. I'm just a nice guy is all! Movies, and cartoons have to do something really bad for me to hate them or think that they suck.

You really thought she was weird looking in the original show?

Yep. The redesign wasn't gold, but I like it too. They were going for a woman "no man could resist" and I could see that in the redesign. Yeah, yeah she was one of my first cartoon crushes admittedly. Not to say she didn't look good in the Animated Series. ;-)

I kinda like, how the revamped version was amped up as well in terms of her threat level.

They just weren't trying.

Seems like it. :-o

I forgot about Freeze too. He was also bad! Well, he looked to "Retro" in the Animated Series, but atleast he looked better.

Absolutely. His third design in Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker was excellent.

Yeah, he look amazing in Justice League, and Return of the Joker.

Guess you have a point there.

Yeah, alot of cartoons today are so water-downed. After 2006 alot of the best action cartoon shows stopped airing, or ended. Now let just gots lot of crap. And lots of action cartoons now have none of the compelling stories, or complexity most 90's and early to mid 2000's action cartoon shows have. "Gotham Knights" might have suffered design wise, but imo didn't go downhill story-wise. They're still mature, compelling, and interesting. Not kiddy downed like today.

Right, and can you believe they actually praised them on the Volume 4 DVD, saying they preferred them to the BTAS designs?

Yeah, that was weird. I'd like to give them 4 slaps for Arnold Wesker, Catwoman, Freeze, and Mad Hatter, and tell them what they were thinking.

They defiantly, loved the redesigns as they kept using some of them years later. Penguin was the same in the "Mystery of Batwoman" film, and Posion Ivy, and *sigh* Wesker had the same character designs in one of the Justice League episodes. Two-Face was surprisingly back to his original design to the Animated Series though. Not that there was huge difference to begin with, but you could tell.

The only redesign to be proud of is Scarecrow he looked fantastic.

“A ridiculously small group of my most incompetent and silliest troops awaits them."

[–] ExplorerDS6789 13 years ago

"I forgot about Freeze too. He was also bad! Well, he looked to "Retro" in the Animated Series, but atleast he looked better."

I also hate how they forgot what his character went through in SubZero. Have you ever seen SubZero? It's really good and a clear example of what Batman & Robin SHOULD have been.

"Yeah, that was weird. I'd like to give them 4 slaps for Arnold Wesker, Catwoman, Freeze, and Mad Hatter, and tell them what they were thinking."

Selling out, that's all it is.

"They defiantly, loved the redesigns as they kept using some of them years later. Penguin was the same in the "Mystery of Batwoman" film, and Posion Ivy, and *sigh* Wesker had the same character designs in one of the Justice League episodes."

Well as far as Wesker and Mad Hatter go, the animators just got lazy.

[–] Count_Sarge 13 years ago

I also hate how they forgot what his character went through in SubZero. Have you ever seen SubZero? It's really good and a clear example of what Batman & Robin SHOULD have been.

Once, twice in my life, and I have forgotten those experiences. :-(

I need a rewatch!

So, like how do you compared it against "Mask of Phantasm"?

Well as far as Wesker and Mad Hatter go, the animators just got lazy.

Yep.

Wesker just looked to cartoonish. The hell. Seriously.

What were they going with Mad Hatter anyway? Were they trying to make him more like the actual "Alice in Wonderland" Mad Hatter?

“A ridiculously small group of my most incompetent and silliest troops awaits them."

[–] ExplorerDS6789 13 years ago

"I need a rewatch!"

SubZero or Batman & Robin? If so, I strongly recommend the former.

"So, like how do you compared it against "Mask of Phantasm"?"

They're both excellent, although Mask of the Phantasm has to be a cut above the rest. It's the first animated Batman movie so it has that novelty, and plus it's a multi-layered story. You discover something new each time you watch it and uncover something you didn't notice before. The Dark Knight is the same way.

"What were they going with Mad Hatter anyway? Were they trying to make him more like the actual "Alice in Wonderland" Mad Hatter?"

From what I've heard, they based his new look on his comic book appearance. Same token for Penguin.

[–] Count_Sarge 13 years ago

Same like the comics? I don't remember Mad Hatter ever looking like that.

Meh, must a incarnation I never read about yet.

So like.....how about that Superman!

“A ridiculously small group of my most incompetent and silliest troops awaits them."

[–] ExplorerDS6789 13 years ago

"Same like the comics? I don't remember Mad Hatter ever looking like that."

I guess they tried to make him look like this: http://x0d.xanga.com/2f48011b67637220021101/z172483173.jpg

"So like.....how about that Superman!"

To be honest, I never really got into Superman. I've always preferred Batman. I don't know, maybe it's because Superman's villains aren't as interesting as Batman's, or maybe Batman's methods of fighting are more intriguing. Something, I don't know.

[–] TheSolarSailor 13 years ago

I forgot about Freeze too. He was also bad! Well, he looked to "Retro" in the Animated Series, but atleast he looked better. >>> I really loved Freeze's retro look in the original animated series. I remember the first time I saw a picture of it and I thought, good grief, it looks like a 50s design. but then I realized that it was the best route to take without their going overboard and making some big robotic suit like the 1980s Super Powers Freeze, or the ridiculous looking Schwarzeneggar version. Those outfits did not look like they were designed to keep a man at subzero temperatures. Odd as his suit may be in the Animated Series, it did look like an invention with a purpose.

The new Mr. Freeze design was terrible, and his new story was rather too far out and silly to be believed, that of him being nothing but a head with this tall black robot body. It was ridiculous. his story wasn't bad as he sought to rob other people of the things that brought them joy, but his condition was too extreme to be believed, even in a cartoon. The least they could have done was have his limbs be replaced with robotics and still keep his torso. Wouldn't a head need lungs and a heart to survive?

The only good that came from this episode was that freeze got to appear in a really good Batman Beyond episode. He got his body back thanks to the advanced science of the future, and he had a really great looking new suit to use one last time. Everything there was an improvement over the silliness we got in this series with the character. It's funny, but Mr. Freeze's best episodes were his first and his last, bookends of sorts. Everything in between was sort of meh. Yes, even Subzero.

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Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

[–] TheSolarSailor 13 years ago

You know why it was made? Money. WB wanted them to create some new Batman episodes to tie in with their Superman cartoon, and told them to make it look like crap to save money. >>> Not only that, but it was all done so that they could sell more toys. All new designs opens up a whole new world of toy action figures and vehicles, the REAL reason for all of the changes when you get down to it. I mean, they can't keep selling the same toys, so there MUST be a change in design so that the toy machine has plenty of new material to manufacture. This was a turning point in the series, as it wasn't so much about making toys based on a great series, but more of a new looking series being made to further the sale of toys.

"The New Batman Adventures" reduced Bruce Wayne's screen time so more Batman would appear in each episode. Sorry, but Bruce is a much needed side to the overall characterization. The show isn't without some cool entries here and there. "Sins of the Father" with Two-Face that introduces Tim Drake is good. The Mr. Freeze episode "Cold Comfort" is a must see if you wish to understand his final appearance in Batman Beyond's excellent episode "Meltdown". "Over the Edge" is also an excellent episode that shows what happens when Batgirl dies and the Commissioner discovers the truth about Bruce Wayne. "Old Wounds" also offers interesting insight into why Nightwing and Batman have problems. Overall, though, the 4th season is forgettable and offered plenty of bad stories, a few of which were "The Creeper", "Judgment Day" (a story that RUINED Two-Face), "Animal Act", "Cult of the Cat", and "The Ultimate Thrill" featuring the dumbest character of all, Roxy Rocket, a stupid whore who literally flies around on a big rocket like something Wile E. Coyote would order from Acme.

The show didn't try to divorce itself from The Animated series, but it never really captured the quality writing that was character-centric. This show was more about action than anything, which is fine from time to time, but overall not as satisfying. People are free to accept what they like, though. If one doesn't care for these episodes, then they don't have to accept it as canon. Those who argue that the producers says this or that are sporting rather weak minds, having to be told what they are allowed to accept and not accept. That must not be any fun to be dictated to.

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Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

[–] Count_Sarge 13 years ago

I really loved Freeze's retro look in the original animated series. I remember the first time I saw a picture of it and I thought, good grief, it looks like a 50s design. but then I realized that it was the best route to take without their going overboard and making some big robotic suit like the 1980s Super Powers Freeze, or the ridiculous looking Schwarzeneggar version. Those outfits did not look like they were designed to keep a man at subzero temperatures. Odd as his suit may be in the Animated Series, it did look like an invention with a purpose.

Haha, yeah I don't hate his original look, but something about it never sat well with it too me. Granted, that sounds more like my problem since, no incarnation of Freeze in the movies, comics, or cartoons has been able to satisfy me in terms of appearance as of yet. I guess I'm picky.

Overall, though, the 4th season is forgettable and offered plenty of bad stories, a few of which were "The Creeper", "Judgment Day" (a story that RUINED Two-Face), "Animal Act", "Cult of the Cat", and "The Ultimate Thrill" featuring the dumbest character of all, Roxy Rocket, a stupid whore who literally flies around on a big rocket like something Wile E. Coyote would order from Acme.

I'll admit it. I enjoyed episodes like "Joker's Millions" and "The Creeper" in my youth remembering them as episodes that weren't meant to be taken seriously in the first place anyway. And while I do enjoy it for what it is I too admit the "Rocket Roxy" episode was.....out there...and for an episode that was suppose to be taken seriously..pretty lame too. On, "Judgement Day" I defiantly remember liking it in my youth as well and the twist with Two-Face having a vigilante personality. Though again I'm remembering all this from my youth so, I'm probably looking at everything from a tinted-rose glassed nostalgic view. Maybe, the episodes aren't as cool as I remember them being.

“A ridiculously small group of my most incompetent and silliest troops awaits them."

[–] TheSolarSailor 13 years ago

I would be very interested in hearing your opinions of the episodes in question now, if you were to watch them again. The Creeper has never EVER been a character I liked, so I guess his appearance in the show was already doomed in my eyes. I think he is laughably dumb, and easily the worst costume I have ever seen. Roxy Rocket was just awful. I remember he flying straight down an d they basically made it seem as if she was about to have an orgasm over it. I couldn't believe what I was seeing (or hearing). We went from Wyle E. Coyote ACME rockets to orgasms! What the hell were they thinking with this slop? But the Two-Face idea really just made me mad. It went against the very foundation of Two-face, adding a third personality. No matter how nice it might have been to think of how Harvey would want to punish Big Bad Harve with a new vigilante, it went against the very core of the character and was unwelcome in every way.

It just seems that these new episodes wanted to push the gamut a little too much, doing things that were too far out, not because they were a good idea, but because they were successful enough to do as they pleased without being brought to task for it. This is why I think The Animated Series was better, because they had to sort of fight for what they wanted rather than being given carte blanche to do whatever they like, which opens the floodgate for crap ideas that lack critical thinking. That is when you get carried away with adult things that don't necessarily add to the quality. At this point, no one wanted to say no to Bruce Timm and company, when in all honesty maybe they should have.

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Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

[–] Atotaleclipse 12 years ago

I do. It takes a lot of the continuity and uses it.

[–] TalesfromTheCryptfan 12 years ago

I do since it's the 4th and 5th seasons of the show but this did had some solid episodes at times.

"You killed Captain Clown, YOU KILLED CAPTAIN CLOWN"-The Joker on Batman TAS

[–] LaPfieffer92 11 years ago

i really have no interest in this series. thats why i didnt buy the complete BTAS collection, because i just do not want the "new batman advnetures" in my collection. i was older by that time and i dont even think i watched much of it. i always go confused, like why does joker look different and bruce wayne too? i didnt like the new designs cvuz i was so used to the tim burton-esque look of the original animated series. plus like many said, the storylines werent that great, the sidekicks were annoying and i just wasnt nuts about it. i got the 3 volumes of BTAS and thats it.

Realism, Remakes and Unnecessary Sequels are ruining movies!

[–] www1125 10 years ago

The fact is, we as fans don't get to choose whether it's canon or not. The show belongs to its creators, and what they say goes. Plus, so many of the villains being captured by the end of Season 3 means absolutely nothing, considering these villains are captured and escape again on a regular basis. And Harley having split with Joker is at best an assumption. She has a history of getting mad and leaving him only to be swept off her feet again. And for Joker, there's no such thing as a last hurrah. For him, it's an everlasting game between him and Batman, that won't end until one of them dies. And Ra's al Ghul is far from resolved. True, he just came to Gotham to get his son, but he also clearly states that he and Batman will do battle another time. And as far as Clayface goes, it's already been established that death does not come to him easily. So it's not hard to believe that he survived. And there's no evidence that Catwoman went straight. She's tried several times in the past, but always ends up on the wrong side again, so the episode Batgirl Returns is anything but closure for Catwoman. Ordinarily, I'm the type to accept opinions of others, but this is not a case of opinion. The show's creators make the rules, and if they say it's canon, it's canon.

[–] ExplorerDS6789 10 years ago

I was asking if anybody personally accepts it as canon, not if we think it IS canon or not. Obviously you're too subservient to your masters to dare question anybody or anything so it stands to reason you didn't get my question.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] www1125 10 years ago

I got your question, and my comment explained everything you pointed out in your question. And really? My masters? I think you take this a little too seriously.

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