A LITTLE CREEPY - The Whole Wide World (1996) Discussion

[–] pianojessica 20 years ago

Wow.

Have you read the actual book? Not the screenplay. Considering that the book wasn't published until quite a long time after Robert's death, I think that indicates she wasn't trying to "hook her wagon to a star" as you put it. In my opinion, of course.

Since the book is mostly her journal entries, of course they are biased since she was the one writing them. But isn't everything biased in some form or another? If Robert's mother wrote a book I'd sure love to read it also. But she didn't. So we have Novalyne's writings (she goes into a lot more detail about his mother in the book) and in my opinion they're beautiful.

Why did you get the "distinct impression that Novalyne was being mroe than a little dishonest"? I'm curious.

veteran fore-rummer
That's where my girls at.

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[–] dereksevilclone 20 years ago

I think that Novelyne was one of the few who was able to see past Robert E. Howard's outward facade to the vuknerable little boy inside, who was striving to be so much more than a little known pulp writer whose life was dominated by his mother, a burden he loved and loathed.
The book offers so much more insight into their admittedly bizarre relationship than the movie permits. Novalyne truly felt deeply for the man, and he wasn't prepared to admit he felt the same until it was too late. I think the fact that she wrote the book so many years later offered testament to how deeply haunted she was by the whole thing.
I live about 20 minutes away from Cross Plains where Howard lived and died, and about an hour away from Brownwood, where his remains rest. It is saddening to see how the community that once forsook him and didn't know what to make of him now capitalizes on his name. If anyone, it is that town who hitches theirselves to a now fallen star for personal gain.

"The great only appear great because we are on our knees."

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[–] Deederbug 20 years ago

the whole wide world is my absolute all time favorite movie. i have been searching and searching for the book and i finally got a hold of one yesterday. it should be in the mail and i cannot wait!

i agree with you both. Novalyne's spirit is not boasting. She is telling the story. My grandpa is very similar to Bob in his health problems. Very vulnerable if you tap a wrong nerve is what I am saying. He is bi-polar manic depressive.

I cannot talk about the book yet but i do know that in watching the movie i didn't feel like Novalyne was trying to put herself above anyone else. She was writing from the depths of her heart about a man whom she deeply cared about. The telling of this story, from the film, was a masterpiece. It is very hard to deal with people that have these diseases and the things that were portrayed in the movie were actually how they are in life. Novalyne lept herself composed throughout her journey.

This story is so captivating and pure. There is just so much to learn from her life and Bob's episodes. It really makes you evaluate yourself as a person. It may seem 'far out there' for many today..someone having a love like that and being so calm about it. If these circumstances were true today, many would just drop a person like Bob and call him crazy.

What I am saying, still from the movie's presentation, is that Novalyne was not in any way trying to put herself out there. She wrote something for her..a lot of writers do. It just so happens that she wrote it many years after this man's death. A feat she'd always wanted to do. Her story is incredible and I don't think that we should all go bashing it because of who she was and how magnificent a person she was and hopefully still is.

I have been wondering this lately..Is Novalyne still living? I am not sure if at the end of the film it was added that she still lives in Louisiana when the DVD was re-released last year. If you all know for a fact, i'd love to hear. Thanks!

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[–] dereksevilclone 20 years ago

Unfortunately, Novalyne is no longer with us. She passed away a few years ago.
I am glad to hear that you tracked down a copy of the book "One Who Walked Alone". I am eager to hear your thoughts on it once you read it.
If you ever get the chance, in June of every year, you should come down here to Texas, around Cross Plains for Robert E. Howard days. While I disagree with how much of it is handled, it is worthwhile for ther tours given through Howard's home, an integral setting in the film. You'd be suprised how accurate the film was to the house. There is also pictures of Ms. Price and scads of information about her available. You even get to see Howard's room and his typewriter. I don't know if you are a fellow fan of his or not, but all in all it is abreathtaking experience.
Let me know your thoughts on the book.

"The great only appear great because we are on our knees."

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[–] Deederbug 20 years ago

wooowwww. i'm just kinda sitting here amazed. it's such a powerful story. i am a huge Renee Zellweger fan so this is why i first saw the movie but it is so much more than that now. The thought of actually being in those places and having his actual things right there absolutley blows me away and i'm thousands of miles from the place. i just love this so much. it may not have been the film with all of the money that everyone loves but it is something special. not many know about it which makes it even more powerful. i'm only 16 *in about 11 days* but when i get older i would love to travel to those places. I want to be a writer also and i have found so many artistic opportunities in writing a two second clip of the movie where Novalyne's hat gets caught under the wind current and flaps as her face goes numb when Bob rejects her.

i'm a sucker for love stories and especially ones that are so true and beautifully presented. that's why i kept the search on for the book. i need to see how Novalyne actually said it. I trust Dan I. and the actors in making it close to the realness of it all but i want to get into Novalyne's head and feel it stronger. Words are so powerful and there are certain individuals that stick with you through their writing.

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[–] dereksevilclone 20 years ago

It really is a truly affecting story. I think the film was a great representation of the story, but there is so much more depth to it. Particularly (SPOILER) the scene where Howard finally is able to confess his love to Novalyne, only to discover it is too late. It was truly affecting in the film, but positively heartbreaking in the book.
I wish you luck in your writing. If you ever have any pieces you feel comfortable sharing, I should like very much to read them. I am a self publishing comic book writer (which, admittedly. s miles apart from fleshed out novels) but if a two bit hack like me can do it, you certainly can.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts when you finish the novel.

"The great only appear great because we are on our knees."

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[–] kinghereafter 19 years ago

Funny, my stepfather is from Cisco and never new that "Conan the Cimmerian" was brought to light just a few miles away during the 1930s. To me, the story is about a man who is jailed in a prison partly of his own making. His BPD, somewhat unresolved Oedipal complex and his own imagination kept him from being, free and happy and Novalynne's affections almost, ALMOST, set him free.

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[–] Novalyne 20 years ago

am interested in the info on Ms. Price........I am a Price and am interested in whether we are connected......I just ordered th book also and just aquired the re-release dvd..last night I watched the part with the cast and crew commentary..it was great..just like they were in the room...esp liked listening to Vince..am a fan...if not for him I probably would never came across this movie...that would have a big loss to me!

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[–] dereksevilclone 20 years ago

There is slightly more info (though not too much) in the Howard bio "Dark Valley Destiny" by L. Sprague DeCamp. It's been out of print for some time and unless you also have A hunger for knowledge surrounding Howard, you may not wish to spend all the time and money to seek it out.

"The great only appear great because we are on our knees."

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[–] Novalyne 20 years ago

thanks..I will look in the library for it just to see what is there..if not available I will keep on searching for her ancestry.....maybe in researching her I will find something to break the brickwall I have run into searching for my more immediate ancestors...

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[–] maggie-122 17 years ago

I just found a used copy in good condition at eBay's "Half eBay" stores. Mine cost $23. and there were several other copies for from $27 up considerably higher.

Tonight I saw the movie for the first time (also bought it on eBay last week) and it's really wonderful. D'Onofrio is, as always, superb, and surrounded himself with equal talent. How he did it for so little money is amazing.

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[–] pmiano100 16 years ago

Robert E. Howard was a brilliant but troubled man who was often seen boxing "invisible foes" as he crossed the street in his small town. He wanted desperately to be like the heroes in his books. He couldn't be like them because no man is. We are too human. We are all at least partly responsible for the prisons we sometimes find ourselves in. Howard had a chance for happiness and let it slip away. He was far from the only one who ever did that.

I truly feel sorry for him, but I feel just as sorry for his poor father and Novalyne Price, the woman who professed to love him. Though I believe his suicide was due to situational and perhaps clinical depression, which was not his fault, he did abandon them in a way. As a fan of the Conan books, comics, and movies since 1971, I am grateful for what he gave us. I wish he could have given us more. Depression was little understood back then.

I am grateful to Vincent D'Onofrio and Renee Zellweger for this touching and effective story of his life. D'Onofrio has said he is often uncomfortable playing people who really lived and have passed on. In this case, he shouldn't be. Of course I never knew Robert E. Howard, but I think he would have been proud and satisfied with the honesty of D'Onfrio's portrayal.

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[–] pam-106 20 years ago

Creepy? Without her you have L. Sprague's accounts of his darkness, insanity, depression, and incest suggested relationship with his mother. Of course Novalyne hated Mrs. H. You ould have too. But that still doesn't make her a bad person. She was notorious for keeping people away from Bob. Ask anyone who knew. We did. But, like all mothers, she loved her boy. The rest of the story is not black and white, but shades of gray. In the screenplay, Mike never portrayed Novalyne as hating Mrs. H, and in the making of the film I took every precaution to present her as a sympathetic character. Just look at it again. There was ten years of research put into this project, and I interviewed Mrs. Ellis over ten times, with countless phone calls, etc. Dishonest? She was the most dignified woman I've ever met. I'm sure Mrs. H felt about Novalyne what she felt about anyone who took Robert from her. Put yourself in those shoe, my friend, and then write objectively about it. And, Novalyne did. Her book is a love letter to Bob. There's no question in my mind she never stopped loving him, and if you can't see that in my film, or in Mike's script then you indeed need glasses. Mike's screenplay and my film are a love letter to both of them. A little less cynicism required, my friend.

Best, Dan Ireland

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[–] 48151623422864212 20 years ago

Again, Dan, thanks for responding. This is a beautiful story and the film is cinematic art at its best. Thanks again.

"Do you see any children here for me to defile with my damns?"

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[–] 20 years ago

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[–] J-ion 20 years ago

Lately so many things have happened to me that made me really find my faith in God.Iam a major D'Onofrio fan and would have never seen this film if it wasn't for him.I did,and now I know that this was also God's work for that movie speaked to me more than many things that should have but didn't.I personally think that Novalyne wasn't prepared to make sacrifices.She wanted a man to "show off".She was amazed by him but didn't ant him to be so obscure and distant from society.And for a person like him it's very hard to change.All those things he did for her were a heck of a lot more than anyone with his personality would have done.She should have tried harder to understand him and accept some things.His mother was the only one who believe in him till she showed up.She loved him so much and he was supppose to let her die alone?His mom was sick.How could he leave her like that?If Novalyne truly loved Bob she would have tried to understand and would want him to do what was right.I know that from experience.I've been in this island for 6 years 5 of which were spent having my grandma sick and senile next door.She couldn't walk lately and had visions.She's wet herself and get up and fall down!My mom would be there 24/7 and pick her up from the floor where she had fallen in her own urine.I know very well what it is for someone to devote themselves for the people they love.My mom did it and now she has a clear concience.And we all accepted it and admired her for having so much love.And near the ending Bob told her that he didn't mean what he had said and she asked him to let go of his mom and change himself for her even though she never did that for him!How can you ask someone to do something like that?What was the poor man supposed to do!?!?I think that she realised how much she loved him only after he died.It took her 10 years to find someone else and she only wrote the book when she was old.That shows that she never ever let it go.Sure,it's sad that this had to happen but God works in mysterious ways.Cause his death and her book might have changed many lifes,from the people who lived there to us who read it or saw the film.I know it has changed me forever.I know now what mistakes one could make and slowly,by the help of this movie and many other signs God sends me and to everyone everyday,I'm maturing.Everything happens for a reason.And even things that may seem bad or wrong to us at the time might help something good to take place in the future.I'm 18 years old and I know that from my life.And to me,that's a miracle.They're happy now where they are and together.It's us that are still here who need to realise what's worth living for and make it happen or have the mind and heart to recognize it and do all that is possible to have it when it finds us.All the things I just said come deep from within me and I haven't talked about them or about such deep issues to anyone.I hope that my words made a difference in you.

"By revealing our weaknesses,we show our strength.That's the paradox of being human"

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[–] gabbyh 20 years ago

I watched this film the other night...Sunday 10th October 2004. I knew who Robert E Howard was, but I didn't know his life story.
I came to this film when Novalyne was getting ready for her date. I don't know how they met, but she was a typical female of her time I would guess. She kept her beau waiting..a womans perogative, and dressed for the event, expecting him to do so too.
When they kissed so passionately overlooking the river valley, I had hopes for their romance, but he couldn't cope and repulsed her by saying that he needed to be free.
I think that Novalyne understood him as best she could. I doubt at the time he was diagnosed as he is recognised as being today, he was just regarded as "Odd".
His Mother? Men can be ruined by their Mothers. I haven't read the book, but in the film, his father acknowleged that he and his son didn't get on, he didn't understand the world his son lived in, he loved him. He also recognised the fact that his son was very close to his mother, and at the end, thanked Novalyne for being such a true friend to his son.

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[–] 20 years ago

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[–] JRBARRETT101 17 years ago

When I was 10 I discovered Tolkien, Burroughs and Howard all in one fell swoop and by age 15 I had pretty much read all of the Howard's major works. Even at the tender age of 12 I had decided that Howard was complete "loon" who happened to write some rousing fantasy/adventure stories and after reading of De Camp's bio that image was cemented in my mind. In addition if memory serves me right, the De Camp book paints a not so very appealing picture of Miss Price as well. I believe De Camp refers to her as someone who was thought of by the citizens of Cross Plains as being just as strange of Howard was. So when I came across this movie on cable I was reluctant at best about the prospects of spending time watching a couple of maladjusted people on the screen. In the end I watched it anyway and I was genuinely moved by their love story. In fact it went a long way toward lightening my attitude and opinion toward both REH and Miss Price. I am now convinced that if REH had been born ten years later or if he only lived for another ten years then his psychological problems could have been treated with all the advances that the field of mental health had made during and after WWII. Alas, in the end we will never really know for sure.

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[–] mcornett 16 years ago

I came away from the film with an impression that while Novalyne did love Bob, his emotional problems were too much for her to deal with. These days, she'd just beg him to go on meds and see a shrink, but in rural Depression-era Texas, those options weren't open to him. We all have our limits and not every one of us can be a therapist or social worker for the people we care about, and even more of us shouldn't even try. That gave a lot of poignancy to the film's tragedy, that if not for his mental health issues, they could have had a great love (although, did his problems fuel his writing? If he had been healthier, would he have just had a regular job and lived out a mediocre life?)

I remember seeing this in an art-house theater in Washington DC with some friends; we were all familiar with Howard's story and were in tears because we could see what was coming at the end. A group of college girls behind us had no idea and were shocked by what happened. It is a wonderful, affecting movie that deserves greater attention, but I am thankful it's out there.

Autobiography in six words: "Baby, you ain't seen nothin' yet!"

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] Calibanhagseed 15 years ago

If Bob just got Dolores Dalton, things would have been fine.

What did he see in that Steinbeck-wannabe bore Pryce, in the first place.
and Yes, Truent was a backstabber of a friend.

Bob makes better points trough out the film.

"...If they don't feed ya and put clothes on yer back, than what they think ain't worth a d*mn"

"We truly livin' in an advancin' society, if we don't wanna endanger our pig-skin jackets"

"...they offer ya a spoon full of manure and ye gulp in on down"

Novalyn may have loved Bob, but she was clearly dwarfed by Bob's intelligence, intellect and her pedestrian mind could not handle Bob's "Nietzschean" philosophy and his valid stand of self-reliance.
She wanted to force Bob into conformity. She even admits it during the scene at the ruined cottage.
"...Cause, I tell him to wash off the war paint and accompany me to Sunday-school, something tells me he just won't do that."

She is just as stubborn as Bob to make any concession toward making the relationship work. She sport that typical "independent", iconoclastic attitude all feminists have - how is her thirst for independence better than Bob's ?- while still dreaming of that white picket fence, 2,4 kids and turkey dinners, So I guess "Paper-pushin'"Truent was indeed the best choice.

Bob chose to walk alone, even if it killed him. Novalyn always played it safe.

And Bob was no loon, don't taint his memory with pop-psychology.

...and it was a stupid hat.

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[–] funkyfry 14 years ago

You sound a little sure of yourself there. I have to admit I'm sort of halfway between you and some of the rest. I've always admired Robert Howard's willingness to confront the hypocrisy of society and civilization, to live -- and certainly die -- by his own rules. I think to look at it from a psychological perspective is only looking at his life through a different lens, and we're always through the glass darkly when we talk about other human beings in their soul and their deepest personality. I think it's a bit absurd to assume that some other woman would have changed Howard's life though, especially considering his dependence on his mother. And the idea that Robert Howard's "self-reliance" was somehow admirable is very questionable in light of his suicide.

Did I not love him, Cooch? MY OWN FLESH I DIDN'T LOVE BETTER!!! But he had to say 'Nooooooooo'

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[–] Calibanhagseed 14 years ago

:) Actually the Dolores Dalton remark, was an attempt at humour.

The "momma's boy" or "Elektra-complex"(or whatchamacall-it) is always a poor excuse for men who love their mothers deeply. Its part of the trend of castrating strenght and virility; especially of recalcitrant characters.
He was loyal to his mother for at least two good reason given; loyal is not the same as dependence; Bob always had trouble sharing some of is most bitter feelings with others - especially Pryce - since bitterness is not a very attractive quality.
Misses Howard always "accepted" that part of Bob and served as the only party with an ear for his feelings. But she was possessive; but that has a reason as well. Though Doctor Howard said he was not privy to Bob's mind and life; he was the same, Misses Howard was probably very lonely with bob as the only real comfort she had. (Does that serve as an excuse: No, but loneliness makes one do strange things)

Indeed the self-reliance never was of the level of what Bob himself preached, but it kept him active and in reasonable happiness; since high-school to the premature end of his life.
I am a bit unfair toward Pryce, yes. No doubt she loved Bob very much, and he her because they were both stubborn "spitfires", that quality that brought them together and kept them apart.

I love the Howard's stories and have a soft spot for him as a person; So when people paint the man as a loon, that's just - well - mean. (Clearly the in The Lovecraft circle, Lovecraft himself and Bloch are far more loony than Bob, when you read their thoughts - not to mention far less talented as writers; but they have academic titles so they are excused probably)

Seeing I've just written three paragraphs, I realise that my defence of Bob, sorta became a rant. My apologies.
(But I still say Doloros would have been a good choice: Golden hair, sparklin' eyes, wonderful big big bosoms)

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] carlphillips408 13 years ago

why do you say such things?

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[–] mkelly54 11 years ago

Either you've never written anything or you don't really understand the artistic process of a memoir. There are hundreds of thousands of memoirs that will never be published, and, in many instances, never leave a writer's bookshelf or hard drive.

Memoirs are often written in a time of need, healing and a desperate search for solace when no other source is available. The fact that numerous memoirs are printed with the sole intent of making money doesn't erase the fact the memoirs, in their truest form, are private works.

I have written several. I am self-publishing one this summer. The other three will never see the light of day.

As someone who grew up reading and enjoying Howard's work, I am thankful for Novalyne Price's revelation of life few of us knew or could have imagined.

The Whole Wide World is an amazing movie. I haven't watched it in a long time, though now I'll have to find a copy and watch again. And I'm damn sure going to buy Price's work!

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