Man this whole trilogy didn't age so well. - Scream (1996) Discussion

[–] Reaperscout (582) 6 years ago

Other than maybe the technology in the movies (the look of TVs, cell phones, and computers), I think the movies have aged well. I watch them all the time still. Mainly around Halloween season. Plus they are WAY better than most horror movies now. But I'm also a 90's kid, so maybe that's why I think the way I do about them. I'm actually more of a 70's and 80's horror person. I mainly like the Halloween series/franchise, but the Scream movies are some of the 90's horror movies I like to watch.

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[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

I remember when I first saw it. I was a huge fan of late 70's/early 80's horror especially Halloween, so to me Scream was like a dream come true circa 1996 and it made sense this was the direction of Wes Craven's career after the meta narrative in the underappreciated "Wes Craven's New Nightmare". I thought it quite clever at the time. The sequels were more solid than other horror sequels at the time but didn't capture the magic of the original. I began to suspect Kevin Williamson might be a one trick pony when I saw" I Know What You Did...." which I thought lackluster. Now for me all the films contain amusing or interesting moments and are nicely performed by the cast but didn"t hold up particulsrly well when I saw them again a couple of years ago.

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[–] Stratego (29252) 6 years ago

You say it hasn't aged well, but the only argument you give is the bad horror it supposedly spawned. Those movies and shows have no bearing on the quality of Scream, which is a smart movie that has aged well. The last two movies stink, but the second is still good.

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[–] RazoulGoozleSmog (169) 6 years ago

Having self aware characters doesn't make it smart. Scream has the same quality as those shows, it's just a 90s version is all.

The only likeable characters are Dewey and Kenny. Everyone else are bland 90s caricatures. Matthew Lillard is Matthew Lillard same quirky character like in every movie he did in the 90s. I don't mind a movie having a basic plot, but if it tries to have a self-referential attitude at least try to do something new. All it really was a typical "who done it?" movie, plus the annoying Randy character. It's one of those movies that work the best regarding its first viewing and the timing of its release. The slasher craze ended in the 80s and people were burned out on the trademark and slasher horror films, and when Scream came out people hadn't seen anything like it before, blah blah blah same old story.

I was born like 10 days before this movie was released in theaters, so you might just accuse me of not understanding "The 90s man." but much like those TV shows don't truly capture the 2000-2018 era (most of it is a cringefest anyways, but the cringe is amplified on TV/movies), Scream is probably just as much as a cheesy caricature.

At the same time I've seen a lot of movies from every era, and there are things I appreciate about the different eras and things I can make fun of. I do notice the older the era gets, the more leverage and suspension of disbelief I'll give a movie. so maybe I'm just tough on Scream because it's a bit newer and was a relevant and popular thing when I was a kid.

Or maybe it's because things like Friday the 13th never tried to be anything more than popcorn horror, then Scream comes along with a pair of glasses and a snooty attitude, and you just realize it was a pseudo-intellect all along.

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[–] Stratego (29252) 6 years ago

"Having self aware characters doesn't make it smart."

Is that what I said?

"Scream has the same quality as those shows, it's just a 90s version is all."

Somebody had to to it first. The rest are just copy cats. Same quality??? Oh boy.

"Everyone else are bland 90s caricatures."

No, everybody is a horror movie "caricature", only with a 90s, satirical touch.

"Matthew Lillard is Matthew Lillard same quirky character like in every movie he did in the 90s."

Can't blame Scream for him not being a versatile actor.

"so maybe I'm just tough on Scream because it's a bit newer and was a relevant and popular thing when I was a kid."

Or maybe you're one of those millennials who can't appreciate older movies because they're not "original" and "dated"?

Scream perfectly captures the 90s era, by the way.

"Scream comes along with a pair of glasses and a snooty attitude, and you just realize it was a pseudo-intellect all along."

Now that seems like a rather snooty and pseudo-intellectual attitude. Scream simply pokes fun at horror movies while acknowledging to be a horror movie itself. It does tackle the relationship between media and violence, but that's a legitimate topic and a rather obvious one if you're going to be self-referential.

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[–] RazoulGoozleSmog (169) 6 years ago

I think I found the 90s nostalgic glasses guy, haha.

"Or maybe you're one of those millennials who can't appreciate older movies because they're not "original" and "dated"?

Scream perfectly captures the 90s era, by the way."

HAHA, man you really know nothing about me, but I'll be honest I was on the Dirty Harry board defending Dirty Harry defending for the same reasons as you defend this OK movie, so maybe I'm the one to talk. Anyways, lets take the original Texas Chainsaw or Halloween for example, both movies I think have aged pretty well, I mean their both just basic slasher films, and of course their obviously from the 70s, but that doesn't make a movie bad, Scream is just one of those movies that doesn't have that much rewatchability, it works better on its first viewing, it works better on it's first viewing and if you were living in the 90s. What I'm saying is Scream's know-it-all attitude from the Gen X VHS generation is what makes it dated.

Anyways Scream probably captures the 90s teen life about as much as some MTV horror show. I think the movies actually capture the 90s are things like Slacker or Clerks. You know... Movies that were made by actually Generation X folks?

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[–] Stratego (29252) 6 years ago

I think I've found the superficial millennial who can't support his statements with arguments. I'm not a guy, by the way.

"HAHA, man you really know nothing about me"

Ooh, have I "triggered" you or something? I asked a question, thanks for confirming it, though.

"What I'm saying is Scream's know-it-all attitude from the Gen X VHS generation is what makes it dated."

The current generation of moviemakers certainly don't know how to be witty or clever anymore, if that's what you mean.

Clerks captures the lifestyle of 20-somethings in the 90s. A different age group. You wouldn't know what it was to be a teen in the 90s. Kevin Williamson is also one of the Generation X folks, by the way.

I'm not so much defending this movie as criticising the way you argue your opinion.

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[–] RazoulGoozleSmog (169) 6 years ago

Woman or man you still got your nostalgia goggles wrapped too tight.

And the dude was 30 when he wrote this movie, I doubt he knew much about 90s high school life either. Nor did Wes Craven.

"The current generation of moviemakers certainly don't know how to be witty or clever anymore, if that's what you mean."

Scream is not that witty or clever... and movies have been on a slow decline down to the toilet since 1995.

I've stated my opinion pretty well, I know a lot when it comes to Scream. Just letting you know I used to be quite the big fan of this whole trilogy, I used to regard it the same way you regarded it.

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[–] Stratego (29252) 6 years ago

Nope, I just appreciate a clever and witty movie. Any nostalgia is just a bonus.

What's laughable is that you call a 20 year old movie "dated". As if our culture or moviemaking has changed dramatically. Enough bad movies from the 90s, but I wouldn't call any of them dated. I guess all John Hughes movies or something like Back to the Future are dated because they scream 80s.

So movies about teens can only be made by teens? And still Scream appealed to 90s teens, how's that possible. Maybe because it's more timeless than you think. And Williamson was a teen when those spoofed horror movies were released.

Saying a movie is dated because later shows have tried to mimic it, is not stating your opinion "pretty well".

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[–] RazoulGoozleSmog (169) 6 years ago

Everything I've said has completely went over your head and I bet you didn't even take time to comprehend my replies, but an opinion is an opinion. You obviously haven't read any of my other replies on this thread because you're so blinded with emotion, if I couldn't tell how old you were I would think your the millennial. Because you have brought no knowledge of this movie along with you. I KNOW the story of Scream, like I said I was obsessed with it when I was a kid.

I didn't just watch it on VHS over and over. I've seen countless documentaries detailing it's making, I've gone through the DVD features. Like you can't test me here, you really can't. I can already tell I know way more than you just by the way you talk to me.

Sorry sweetie, I know you think just because I grew up with the internet that I'm some stupid kid that needs fast editing and Hans Zimmer music, but the internet is an amazing research tool full of history and culture and like it or not the younger generation is a lot smarter than the stupid Generation X.

Yeesh look at myself, I'm starting to get emotionally involved in an internet argument.

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[–] Stratego (29252) 6 years ago

As if saying you're an expert on Scream changes the fact you didn't properly formulate your opinion.

"like it or not the younger generation is a lot smarter than the stupid Generation X"

Don't make me laugh. Studies actually show that IQ scores are dropping.

"Yeesh look at myself, I'm starting to get emotionally involved in an internet argument."

And you're calling me emotional...

Little boy, if you can't handle criticism, then don't post your opinion on the internet.

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[–] RazoulGoozleSmog (169) 6 years ago

Your lack of self awareness just proves my point even more. I can handle criticism, I just forgot how many unreasonable people chalk full of bad taste were on the internet.

As for the IQ thing, I'm assuming you read HuffingtonPost or something, which proves my point even more.

I guess we both just look idiotic to each other.

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[–] Stratego (29252) 6 years ago

You're the one being a "snowflake" (another lovely millennial term), so HuffPost seems more your kind of thing.

I can assure you that you also look idiotic to everyone else.

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[–] RazoulGoozleSmog (169) 6 years ago

lol

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[–] Stratego (29252) 6 years ago

Well, I'm glad you didn't lose your sense of humor the day you lost your mind.

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[–] RazoulGoozleSmog (169) 6 years ago

Yeesh let it go already, we've already agreed to disagree a long time ago.

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[–] Stratego (29252) 6 years ago

Aha, so that's what "lol" means. Sorry, I don't speak millennial.

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[–] RazoulGoozleSmog (169) 6 years ago

No haha, I said "lol" because I noticed you need some form of dominance in order to be comfortable in this argument.

You also haven't been able to get off the subject of my age since it's been brought up. I should start making fun of your gender, since you brought that up. haha

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[–] Stratego (29252) 6 years ago

Projecting much???

But yeesh, I thought you wanted to let it go!

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[–] jds182 (50) 3 years ago

As a 34 year old I know that if there is one thing you can't say about Scream is that it "doesn't feel like the 90s". The first 2 Scream movies captured the 90s in a bottle.

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[–] RazoulGoozleSmog (169) 6 years ago

I think a movie (even though it wasn't trying to be a slasher film and more of a detective film) like Se7en was way smarter than Scream, and has aged 1000x better.

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[–] Stratego (29252) 6 years ago

Se7en is a great movie, but totally different.

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[–] RazoulGoozleSmog (169) 6 years ago

Yeesh that's what I said man.

Have I triggered you or something?

Anyways they're both mystery serial killer movies, if you think about it.

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[–] Stratego (29252) 6 years ago

No, you're implying Se7en is better, I'm saying it's a totally different movie. They can't be compared. One's a dark thriller, the other a satirical horror movie.

Triggered? Yep, you're a typical millennial. Dare I say, caricature?

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[–] RazoulGoozleSmog (169) 6 years ago

Yeah but use your brain, they're both pretty similar when you take it down to the barebones.

Serial killer kills people. People investigate the murder. Murderer is found at the end. Big twist ending.

Yeah I get Scream was "satirical" but Se7en actually feels like it was made by an adult and not not some high schooler trying to be "satirical".

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[–] Stratego (29252) 6 years ago

Wow, I guess Titanic is similar to Scream as well!

They feel different, because they are different. Different script writer, different director, different actors, different genre, different story, different tone, different targer audience. Basically everything, except what you mentioned.

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[–] RazoulGoozleSmog (169) 6 years ago

Yeah they are different, one tries to appeal to stupid children, and the other one wants to make you think.

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[–] Stratego (29252) 6 years ago

So you admit you were incredibly stupid as a child? It seems it hasn't changed much in adulthood.

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[–] RazoulGoozleSmog (169) 6 years ago

Well, like most children, yeah I probably was, but probably smarter than you in other ways. No more dumber than you at this moment.

As you grow up though, you start to realize adults are just grown children. Much like how you throw a temper tantrum over an OK movie like Scream. Or how I'm dumb enough to stick around and try to make you see something.

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[–] Stratego (29252) 6 years ago

Is that post supposed to show you're smarter than I am? Because you've totally failed. But I guess you're already used to that...

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[–] ltquinn (64) 6 years ago

posted a day ago by RazoulGoozleSmog (46)
5 replies | jump to latest
I can appreciate the first Scream, and I understand how different it was compared to other horror movies back in the day, especially that opening scene with Drew Barrymore.

I loved this trilogy growing up through elementary and middle school, praising it as "cool, hip and smart horror" basically what the critics said on the DVD/VHS covers.

But man shit like this paved the way for all the shit horror that comes out now, those horror shows on the CW and MTV. (Which I know Kevin Williamson writes for now)

I agree with you 100% about this film not aging well.

Now let me start by admitting that I hated these films when they were popular. The Scream movies came out when I was in high school and people wouldn't stop talking about them (mostly the girls seemed to sing the praises). I watched the first two and I thought they were self-indulgent garbage. I was in college when I saw the third film on a date and it was a snooze fest. Prior to that, I had been a Wes Craven fan and I couldn't believe he made these flicks.

Also, I think all films are victims of being dated at some point (which on the flip side, aging is sometimes the charm).

That said, I tried to watch these movies recently as well. It's been the case that I have watched some movies I loathed from back in the day and they had grown on me. Not the case with the Scream films. Not only had they not aged well, I thought they were ten times more grating than previous viewings. I had forgotten how insufferable I found the actors to be. Anyone annoyed with millennials should watch these movies and use them for a perspective of how obnoxious previous generations can be in their youth.

I will say that, as a fan of the series Justified, I was floored to see Timothy Olyphant's role in the second movie. What a hilarious early role for that guy.

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[–] Stratego (29252) 6 years ago

It seems you never liked the film because of the hype. That doesn't exactly mean the movie hasn't aged well. If you dislike it even more now, maybe you haven't aged well.

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[–] ltquinn (64) 6 years ago

[–] Stratego (2871) 14 hours ago
It seems you never liked the film because of the hype. That doesn't exactly mean the movie hasn't aged well. If you dislike it even more now, maybe you haven't aged well.

You know, now that you mention it, my hair did grey prematurely, not to mention I had liver spots by age 20. I think you figured it out! Scream is the greatest film of the 90s.

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[–] Stratego (29252) 6 years ago

That is, of course, not at all what I said, but I'm glad you've come to your senses!

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[–] ltquinn (64) 4 years ago

That's exactly what you were saying. The hype is a small part of it. I thought the characters were over-polished and annoying. Not to mention a script that dismissed substance and catered to the hip, cool people of the late 90s. It wasn't something that was written as good horror. I would say the first movie was the "best" of all 4 and the killer plot twist is really fucking stupid. Craven basically sold out and made something that was more about the star appeal and flash. That's even clear if you look at the posters for the movies, because it's primarily marketed on the stars. If you were looking at it without the title and prior knowledge of the plot, you'd have no idea what the movie was about. You'd just know that a bunch of GenX actors were in it and see a face of a scared mime at the top.

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[–] Stratego (29252) 4 years ago

No, I did not say that at all and you believing I did is mind-boggling. First, I didn't say anything that comes close to saying Scream is the greatest film of the 90s. Second, I'm clearly suggesting that it has something to do with yourself that you dislike the movie even more NOW because of its hype back then. And besides calling the characters "over-polished and annoying" (matter of taste), your criticism again only consists of annoyance at what the movie supposedly stands for. You actually do sound like a grumpy old man!

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[–] RazoulGoozleSmog (169) 6 years ago

"Also, I think all films are victims of being dated at some point (which on the flip side, aging is sometimes the charm). "

I agree, I think any film that is over 20 years old will be considered "dated". I usually don't like to use that word at all, I don't think always think it's fair to criticize a movie for being dated. But... man... Scream IS dated.

Maybe I don't enjoy the 90s era as much as the 30s,40s,50s,60s,70s and 80s, I think human beings in general got more and more self indulgent as time went on.

Hell I don't even know what's going on these days, movies seem so disconnected from reality. I realize it always just fantasy stuff since The Great Train Robbery was released, but film seems so much disconnected from reality today than it has in any other era, and Scream to me is just a sign of shit to come.

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[–] JordanWayne (2) 6 years ago

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[–] Guitar King (4356) 6 years ago

This series was always glossy garbage that took a dump on the entire slasher genre. It was never smart or clever and neither are it's mostly YA audience.

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[–] Stratego (29252) 6 years ago

Ooh look, another horror fanboy wo cried because Scream made a joke about the only kind of movie he watches. Grow up, man. I also like the slasher genre, but there's nothing wrong with taking the piss out of it and pointing out its ridiculousness sometimes.

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[–] RazoulGoozleSmog (169) 6 years ago

At the end of the day it's Weinstein gobble that was solely made to make money, take away the horror references, it's just a soap opera.

Usually when a movie has copycats you can tell what made the original so good compared to the ones that followed. But why does Scream just blend in with all of the other copycats?

Which brings me back to a movie like Se7en, which yeah I know is not a "slasher film" per say, but it does have horror elements and that person that's ranting and raging on here can get as mad as they want.

Se7en is pretty distinguishable from the other dark mystery thrillers that came after it trying to have the same style, movies like Along Came A Spider or 8MM.

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[–] ltquinn (64) 6 years ago

[–] RazoulGoozleSmog (65) 6 hours ago

At the end of the day it's Weinstein gobble that was solely made to make money, take away the horror references, it's just a soap opera.

Se7en is pretty distinguishable from the other dark mystery thrillers that came after it trying to have the same style, movies like Along Came A Spider or 8MM.

I think that's about half-right. That's clearly what they did with Halloween 6 and then they went a step further with H20. H6 is a weird duck, because it still had the same plot elements and direction that the previous Trancas International Films took with those movies. But it also has the annoying pop culture references and the glossy feel that were to become prominent in the movies that later came from Dimension.

The thing about Seven you should remember is that, not only is it distinguishable, it's a masterpiece. In my opinion, Fincher never topped that. I know many people would name Fight Club, but I don't think that even comes close. So it's always going to be better than movies like the Morgan Freeman-Alex Cross flicks. But you're right about a lot of other thriller from that era. I will defend 8mm because I don't believe it fits into that mold. I also think it's really underrated. It doesn't try to be a conventional suspense-thriller. It's more in the realm of neo-noir and borders on exploitation.

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[–] RazoulGoozleSmog (169) 6 years ago

I'll agree with that. I only brought up Se7en because both films were released within a year apart, and Se7en in my opinion is what a smart horror movie should be, I understand most classify it as a thriller, but it does involve a serial killer and evokes more feelings of horror out of me than most "horror movies".

I guess growing up with meta things has turned me sour on it. I've grown up watching Tarantino stuff, or stuff like Scream, and many other movies that love to reference other movies. I think it's kind of distracting, and if the film doesn't have much else to offer than it's modern self-referential sensibilities than I kind of just see right through it. I mean even in Inglourious Basterds, Tarantino couldn't help but make the characters talk about movies in some scenes.

But I do believe the makers of Scream legitimately thought they were making a special movie, and it obviously was pretty special for its time, hearing Wes Craven talk about it in interviews he really thinks he made a classic film. But Wes has always been kind of full of himself.

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[–] Wint3rFir3 (6929) 6 years ago

Maybe it's not a matter of them not aging well so much as your perspective on them changing.

These movies were never supposed to be 'smart' so much as funny. I mean, Wes Craven dressed up as Freddy Krueger in his own movie. They're not serious horror movies and they were never trying to be - but because they were so good and kind of refreshing from the horror films around at their time of release, they spawned a sub-genre all their own. Yes, they are very era-specific, similar to the The Craft film was and how that also bred a new love of Wicca-related tv and film. So calling them dated is fine. But whatever the franchises flaws, I wouldn't say they fall victim to anything. They just look different now than they did when VHS tapes were a thing, especially when you look at where we're at presently with the horror genre landscape eg. Stranger Things being a movie-quality tv show.

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[–] atd8vii (592) 6 years ago

Disagree. I think it's aged pretty well disregarding the technology and a few of the lines here and there. The clothes are obviously 90's but it's still not as hopelessly dated as the F13th and Halloween sequels from the 80's. To sum up, it's obviously dated but not to the point that it's unwatchable in today's movie sphere.

Also completely disagree about Pulp Fiction, but that discussion is for another board.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

X2. The trilogy, and especially the first film, has aged quite well. The technology not ageing well isn't a valid reason, either, since it's set in the 90s - they're using 90s tech.

I don't understand this generation critiquing the tech for being out of date. When I'd watch 60s movies in the 80s/90s the out of date tech wouldn't bother me, because the movies were set in that time period. If anything it's an interesting time capsule - some would say to a better time.

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[–] TaRaNRoD (1579) 5 years ago

"I don't understand this generation critiquing the tech for being out of date"

This! Me neither. Like when Intestellar came out and people were comparing it to 2001 space odessey and many people were talking about how Interstellar was better and had better visuals. This is just a completely flawed conparison since the two movie were made over 40 years apart and didn't have the same technology to work with. The fact is that 2001 is one of the most impressive movies of all time considering the year it was made.

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