the worst


i'm all for foreign films, hell they're 90% better than the garbage being released in america lately but wow, this film was just asthetically (sp!?) bad.
lack of score/boring camerawork, i'm sure if they were going to a gritty realism. but it's just a boring mise en scene snoozefest.

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there are some garbage of hollywood, but there are still very good works !!

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Funny how people have can have such different views. I just watched it and thought it one of the best films I've seen in years. Great that there was no score needed (i mean who does that nowadays, we all know how much you can up things with music, so to leave it out and just do it with visuals is refreshingly brave) gripping how realistic the camerawork made everything, and the way of letting the characters and the atmosphere tell the story by just showing it.
but each to his own of course
R

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it's so nice to see views as yours here

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-r_imdb-180
"Great that there was no score needed gripping how realistic the camerawork made everything, and the way of letting the characters and the atmosphere tell the story by just showing it."
this way exactly what i was looking to here about this film. im so exited to watch it now. love the Dardenne brothers style.

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I would bet that if you watch it again in five years' time you will appreciate what an incredible film this is. The problem is, if you've been fed pap all your life, you get used to it.
If the best thing about a movie is it's soundtrack - well, it should be a CD, not a film.
How aesthetic should a film about the gritty underside of life be? If it looks "pretty", then it is totally falsifying the realities inherent in the story.
It was also in black and white... perhaps for financial reasons, but probably more because grittiness is better portrayed in black and white - as is, by the way, the moral dilemma facing Igor in the film. Right and wrong in this film ARE black and white... there are no real shades of grey that are applicable here.
I think it is typical of the state of the world (and of cinema) that there are only three or four posts on this website for this film, whereas people will write pages about some of the trash made in Hollywood.

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La Promesse was filmed in colour.

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That was succinct. I like you.

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He's not talking about the film stock, you idiot. He's talking about the morals and ethics shown in the film. Go back to X-Men.

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The sentence "but it's just a boring mise en scene snoozefest" doesn't really make any sense at all.

With that said - I can completely understand why someone would be turned off by the Dardenne's storytelling. Their films aren't always aesthetically pleasing, and they can sometimes even be quite discomforting to watch - I found "Rosetta" to be a profoundly uncomfortable, even painful experience (but I still think it's a great movie.) However, to claim that their work is "aesthetically bad" is simply wrong - the Dardennes are incredibly talented filmmakers who know exactly what they are doing. They have a very rigorous formal technique/style that is essential to advancing the themes of their work. That style may seem boring or un-aesthetically pleasing to some, but it certainly isn't "bad."

As for my opinion of their work - well, I consider them to be among the very best filmmakers working today (along with Mike Leigh and a very select few others.) Their films are imbued with a sense of humanism, morality, and even spirituality (though maybe not in the traditional religious-based definition of spiritual) that is very rare in today's film scene. Few films move me as much as theirs do. To paraphrase Jonathan Rosenbaum "you feel their films in your nervous system" - something that can't be said of most films. Their very intentional style, while boring to some, is to me intensely involving and sometimes painful - their "stalking camera" unceasingly follows the protagonist in a building up of morally-based suspense that leads to an utterly transcendent moment of redemption for the protagonist (and one that would be nowhere near affecting had their films been made in any other way.)

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The sentence "but it's just a boring mise en scene snoozefest" doesn't really make any sense at all.


The sentence makes perfect sense, you just don't understand it. There is a very large difference there. The author of that sentence was referring to the French textbook Mise En Scene used in 200-level college French classes as a supplement to the movie watching experience.

They have a very rigorous formal technique/style that is essential to advancing the themes of their work. That style may seem boring or un-aesthetically pleasing to some, but it certainly isn't "bad."


That's ludicrous. That they have a rigorous technique/style says nothing about the quality of their style. The argument is a largely subjective one. You just choose to sit on the other side of the fence than the fellow you were replying to.

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The sentence makes perfect sense, you just don't understand it. There is a very large difference there.
Cute, but you're wrong.

There's something you don't seem to be understanding here, and I'm afraid that that "something" is the English language. I'm actually quite well aware of the phrase "mise-en-scene," and I was at least somewhat aware of the existence of the textbook.

But here, I'll play along: We'll examine the sentence using both possible usages of the term - we'll consider it as if he were referring to the textbook, and we'll consider the far more likely scenario, which is that he was using it in the more traditional sense as a term used to describe the design and framing of a film. I think we will find that, under both scenarios, the sentence is still quite nonsensical.

Scenario A: He was referring to the textbook "Mise en scene," which is regularly assigned in 200-level French courses. His post suggests that he's an American (as evidenced by his use of "foreign film" to describe this movie), and never mind his lack of basic writing skills in his own language (so we wouldn't expect proper capitalization of the first word, or either italics or quotation marks around the title) - it still could be that he's somehow managed to make his way into 200-level French-language courses. The next question is, given that definition, how does the sentence make sense? Perhaps it could read: "It was a boring French cinema textbook snoozefest." He is, then, calling this a "textbook film," because somehow its qualities as a film are inextricably linked with that specific textbook. It would be a fairly esoteric reference, but it's still possible. However, as mentioned, the general qualities of his post would suggest that this is a rather unlikely scenario.

That's an incredibly unlikely use of the term, and the fact that you read it that way only evidences your strong desire to read his post in the most charitable light possible (which is fine, but you still come out looking worse for defending what is, at best, a moderately incoherent sentence.)

SENSE scale: 3/10 (so still far from "perfect sense," even in the most charitable light.)

PLAUSIBILITY scale: 1/10

So I contend that the above scenario (the one suggested by you) is actually quite unlikely. The simpler answer is:

Scenario B: He was referring to the film term "mise-en-scene" - meaning the "design" and "framing" of the film (among other things) - and decided to throw the term in to add weight to his criticisms. The thing is, every film has mise-en-scene. It's not a qualitative term. At best, he was saying: "boring design," but then the last word, "snoozefest," doesn't fit in at all. One doesn't say "boring design snoozefest." It's true that even critics who use the term tend to disagree as to its exact meaning - but, still, the term has specific meanings, and no matter which definition you use his sentence is still incoherent, no matter how valiantly you try to defend it. No critic would write, much less condemn a film with the phrase "boring mise en scene snoozefest."

SENSE scale: 1/10

PLAUSIBILITY SCALE: 10/10

So, the first scenario - the one you assume to be an accurate description of his intentions - makes slightly more sense than the second, but it is also far more unlikely, since we have to pretend that he was making an obscure reference to a French textbook without any slight indication that that was the case (that it makes the slightest bit more sense isn't reason to assume, since there's lots of absolute nonsense on the IMDb.) The second scenario makes no sense, but is far more plausible given the much higher likelihood of his having encountered that term and given people's general propensity to use terms (especially fancy-sounding French terms) they don't actually understand.

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So I'm at a loss here - you're going to have to tell me how his sentence makes "perfect sense." The explanation you gave doesn't actually give any added coherence to his post. Don't put it through your IMDb decoder ring, don't twist it around until it means what you want it to mean - simply parse the sentence for me, so I can finally understand it in all its perfect sense.

I suppose on a clear day you can see the class struggle from here

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That's ludicrous. That they have a rigorous technique/style says nothing about the quality of their style. The argument is a largely subjective one. You just choose to sit on the other side of the fence than the fellow you were replying to.
Not so much ludicrous, as truthful. Though it is interesting that your definition of "ludicrous" so drastically differs from that of the general populace - it may well be that your differing linguistic "understandings" may account for your finding "perfect sense" in the OP's incoherent ramblings.

But for the record, there are certain objective elements to aesthetics, and by what we know about aesthetics it can be determined that the Dardennes' filmmaking, whatever else it may be, is not "bad."

"Bad," when applied to aesthetics, generally implies a certain level of sloppiness or incoherence (it can also imply a moral judgment, though I don't think that's the case here.) The fact is that the Dardennes are, objectively, far from sloppy or incoherent in their aesthetics. So yes, it is the very rigor of their technique (and even "mise-en-scene") that, ipso facto, precludes them from being placement on the list of "bad filmmakers."

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On a side note, it's interesting to know that you apparently believe in the volitional nature of aesthetic judgments, as evidenced by your use of the word "choice" to describe our filmic preferences. I don't know if I'd agree with that assumption (I suppose there might be some choice involved) but I suppose that's an argument for another day.

I suppose on a clear day you can see the class struggle from here

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lack of score
I completely disagree on this. A score would have been detrimental to this film. It would have impeded on my emotional connection to it. I don’t need music to dictate what I should be feeling during a movie. It’s fine for action or horror but not for films like this. Save the maudlin music for Hollywood.

And 'boring'? Not for me. Just seeing it again after 15 years I found it completely riveting.

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I loved this movie.

The acting was natural and real.

(•_•)

can't outrun your own shadow

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If you found this boring you should probably be checked for ADHD.

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