MovieChat Forums > The Late Shift (1996) Discussion > Leno's Role in the Original Late Night W...

Leno's Role in the Original Late Night War Should be Re-thought


I think it's safe to say that the way Leno was portrayed was most likely inaccurate knowing what we no know of his attitude towards getting what he wants and "loyalty".

Now that we know what Leno has actually done to get back a show I think it's a safe bet he was more knowledgeable of Kushnick helping to force Carson out.

We now know for sure that Leno let Kushnick be fired so he could keep his job, he went as far as to spy himself on a GE board meeting to then use the information to extort a better situation for himself and he let Conan be kicked out of a job he wanted back.

When this was made the attitudes of both Leno and Letterman were speculation but knowing what we now know about Leno his portrayal seems inaccurate about how innocent his involvement was.

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What are the "loyalty" aspects you're talking about?

From a lot of what I've read about Leno, including what was in Bill Carter's book, I think Jay has literally no concept of social graces or norms.... probably to the point of some kind of autism.

I think he probably felt dependent on Kusknick because he thought she was doing the things that were necessary to succeed in show business... things he could never do himself. I don't think he knew about the planted article or the booking wars and would have realized that those things were wrong because they were dishonest. I think a lot of people have trouble reconciling Leno because they confuse poor social behavior with honesty.

I think that what bothers most people, even if they can't put it into words, with the Conan debacle is that he waited on the sidelines and took a job after a peer, maybe not a friend, but a fellow comedian, took the honorable route and stepped down. I think Jay honestly thinks to himself, "I didn't actively lobby or do anything to get Conan fired. Why are people mad at me?!" He doesn't realize that that's not the problem. Some people don't realize that that's true, too... he didn't do those things, but what Jay doesn't understand that most of us do is he shouldn't have taken the show back after Conan stepped down. It wasn't the honorable thing to do. Anyone could have taken the show, except for him... and arguably any other late night host. It's weird because I think he thinks of himself as a poor schmuck who was lucky enough to hit it big while not understanding that the reason other schmucks get beaten down by "the big guys" is because of weasels like him letting "the big guy's" horrible decisions work out.

If Jay was playing baseball with a friend and really wanted to play centerfield, but his best friend got placed there instead and blew a play, I don't think Jay understands that he has to refuse when the coach wants him to replace his friend.

I don't think it's ego or a demand of loyalty or any of that stuff. From what I've read, he's a weird guy. I don't think a bad guy, but a weird guy, and I don't think he understands how things work. I refused to watch The Tonight Show after reading Bill Carter's book. I've always liked Dave more, but Jay is one of the best ever at what he does. To me, the Conan thing just reinforced everything I believed from reading what I had.

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I think that what bothers most people, even if they can't put it into words, with the Conan debacle is that he waited on the sidelines...


I point out, though, that Jay was preparing to go to ABC, prompting NBC to panic and talk him into staying.


and took a job after a peer, maybe not a friend, but a fellow comedian, took the honorable route and stepped down.


But, there was the matter of his peer green lighting a deal that he knew full well would squeeze Jay out of "The Tonight Show" so he could have it.

but what Jay doesn't understand that most of us do is he shouldn't have taken the show back after Conan stepped down.


Can you explain to us why?

It wasn't the honorable thing to do.


Whom did it dishonor?

Anyone could have taken the show, except for him....


If you read Carter's book then you are aware it broke Jay's heart losing the show in the first place. Now his replacement (who had a hand in taking it from him) has decided he doesn't like working for NBC any more and decides to resign. NBC offers the show back to Jay, and according to you, anyone could have it, except the guy who was originally fired from it? What had Jay Leno done that he wasn't allowed to have something that his replacement decided wasn't worth fighting for?


[edit] Looks like I'm not going to get an answer. Disappointing. :-(



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Thank you for posting this. Conan and his people did have a hand in originally pushing Leno out, yet Leno was vilified for taking it back when Conan bombed in the ratings. And yes, Conan bombed, and don't try to blame Leno's 10 pm show. Conan started in May 2009 and by the end of the summer, he had lost 45 PERCENT of the Tonight Show audience, before Jay ever began airing at 10 pm.

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Have been told that Conan's low ratings at the beginning were to be expected, but that they probably would have improved if NBC had just given him more time. Well, if that's the case then I wonder how Jimmy Fallon was able to debut at #1, and, for more than two years after he took over, continues to maintain top standing in the ratings. Fallon even relegated David Letterman to third place, and he was regularly beating Conan a week after they went head-to-head.


Conan's a talented guy, and it's a shame that his bid to become the host of "The Tonight Show" didn't work out. But it seems to me like Conan's niche appeal just wasn't going to be enough for him to get the kind of ratings it would take to keep "The Tonight Show" on top.

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Conan didn't have a hand in pushing Leno out. Nobody forced Leno to agree to give The Tonight Show to Conan after 5 years.

Leno was vilified because he went back on his word. He said on his show "Conan, the show is yours". He didn't say "Conan, the show is yours...unless your ratings aren't great in the beginning in which case I'll take the show back".

Leno's 10pm show isn't entirely to blame for Conan's disappointing Tonight Show ratings, but it certainly didn't help. Conan's Tonight Show could've benefited from having high-rated or even decently-rated programming as a 10pm lead-in. Instead, he got The Jay Leno Show as a lead-in every night, which also had disappointing ratings, which led to lower ratings for NBC News affiliates and therefore even lower ratings for Conan.

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Conan didn't have a hand in pushing Leno out.

Conan had the power to let Jay continue to be the host of "The Tonight Show". He could've told NBC "thanks, but I'm taking one of these lucrative offers to do an earlier show elsewhere". But instead he said "yes" to a deal he knew would be handing Jay (and his staff) an eviction notice.


Nobody forced Leno to agree to give The Tonight Show to Conan after 5 years.

NBC owns "The Tonight Show", and Jay didn't have the power to stop this deal they made with Conan. Even if he had complained, Conan was still going to get the show.



Leno was vilified because he went back on his word. He said on his show "Conan, the show is yours".


Jay is vilified for having been a good sport in 2004? How could Jay have known that five years later NBC would be begging him to stay? Let's remember this: leaving was something that was forced on him by the network, and it was the network that later changed it's mind. Not Jay.


He didn't say "Conan, the show is yours...unless your ratings aren't great in the beginning in which case I'll take the show back".

He only got it back after Conan chose to resign. And ratings are, after all, extremely important to keeping a show in production. And Conan's "Tonight Show" started losing in the ratings by the end of his first week as host. That was not good news to NBC.

Leno's 10pm show isn't entirely to blame for Conan's disappointing Tonight Show ratings, but it certainly didn't help.


Even Jay admitted that, but Conan was failing all on his on for months before Jay's 10pm show premiered.

Conan's Tonight Show could've benefited from having high-rated or even decently-rated programming as a 10pm lead-in. Instead, he got The Jay Leno Show as a lead-in every night

What high or decently-rated shows would those have been though? One major motivation for NBC conceiving the 10pm show in the first place was a lack of success in prime time that had been going on for an alarmingly long period of time. They hoped Jay could do at 10pm what he'd been able to do at 11:35, and do it more cheaply than expensively-produced dramas. Didn't work. But it was NBC that cooked up that bright idea, and they also hamstringed Jay with concessions made to the network affiliates that further hurt the show.


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