I read somewhere that Bridget Fonda's character in this movie is supposed to be a lesbian. I watched the movie recently and don't understand this interpretation at all! What on earth would imply that this character is gay?
shareAs far as I recall, the character Bridget Fonda plays in this movie is that of a young female pop star. And a very beautiful and stylish such! She seems rather nervous and unhappy - which is the reason for the two composers to write the tear-jerker song for her - but I don't see why anyone would imagine that this pretty thing is supposed to be lesbian.
shareYES, Bridget Fonda's character in this movie, Kelly Porter, is definitely gay!
I think this fact is so obvious, that I am surprised why so few people seem to have noticed. However, as the scene in the studio is cut back and forth between Kelly singing and Denise & Cheryl talking, many viewers may have their attention on Denise and Cheryl's talk about the abortion, and maybe don't notice Kelly and Marion so much.
But here are some facts that I believe show the intimate relationship between Kelly and Marion:
1. Marion introduces herself as "Kelly's roommate". The term roommate is often used in the gay community as a discreet way of hinting that people are a couple. Most people outside the gay community may not be aware of this, and believe they mean roommate in the more conventional meaning. As in young people who share an apartment. [But why would a presumedly successful and rich pop star need to have a roommate in the traditional meaning?]
2. Before she leaves the studio, Marion says "I'll make a reservation ... Chinese". The two girls are obviously going out for dinner together [but it is still only suggested that they are a couple].
3. In Kelly's first conversation with Denise and Cheryl, we hear ...
Kelly: "...They have no idea what I go through with the person I love" [PERSON? Why did she not say MAN?]
Denise: "Boy problems are always hard"
Kelly "I wouldn't know!" [maybe as in "I wouldn't know about boys .. but about girls]
4. The lyrics of "My Secret Love" include these passages:
Girls like me have to hide our hearts away
If only we could live one day
Without the need to hide away
I'd tell the truth to everyone
How I feel for you
But they'll never understand
They'll destroy us if they can
We must be wise
And keep our disguise
...
I'd sooner die than tell
I'm under your sweet spell
My secret love
5. During most of the song Kelly's eyes are half closed, as she looks concentrated on singing, but when she gets to the words "I'm under your sweet spell" she looks up and directly at Marion, who answers this look by blowing a kiss in Kelly's direction! [Now, that's what I call rather obvious!]
6. Also notice, when one of the producers is eying Marion and asks her out for a drink after the session, she just gives him a very definite "No thank you. No!" [Looking totally uninterested]
if emenel's #3 didn't make it clear enough, recall when Denise gets home that night she rings out with "Kelly Porter! She's not the square we thought she'd be!"
share"Marion introduces herself as "Kelly's roommate". The term roommate is often used in the gay community as a discreet way of hinting that people are a couple."
Odd as it may seem, it's even more common to describe YOUR ROOM MATE. What the hell kind of a reach is that?
""I'll make a reservation ... Chinese". The two girls are obviously going out for dinner together"
Oh my God! People of the same sex eating together! And they're room mates! How blatantly obvious they're gay! How can anyone not notice the obvious???!!!
We'll give you #3... but... if you really have no idea what she's talking about, it can go right by you quite easily. She could just as easily have meant that she wouldn't know, simply because she's never had any trouble with men.
The song lyrics? What do song lyrics have to do with reality? Yeah, sometimes songwriters write about their lives.
Then there's songs like Teddy Bears Picnic, and White Rabbit. The words to a song basically mean nothing.
#5 is good... six is probably the most absurd of all... oh hey, look, a good looking chick turned down going out with some guy. Bitch. She must be a lesbian. After all, why outrageously beautiful woman would turn down a date with a guy? Hard to believe she'd look uninterested if she was straight, isn't it, after all, all women are looking to get laid every second of the day and would be interested even if the retarded janitor asked her to go for a round in the men's room.
You don't need a bunch of dreamt up signals trying to put yourself above everyone that "it was so obvious," when what's really obvious is that you're making some major reaches. The only thing that you've stated is #5 that holds water--which is quite definitely the answer to the question here, the rest is just obscure speculation. C'mon... room mate?
Well, ragreen259, if you had taken the trouble to either listen to the commentary soundtrack by the director, or at least read my post earlier in this page, where I quote fragments of it, perhaps even you could understand what it was all about. And I agree with another poster: it is the sum of all the hints that makes it so obvious.
As for the term "room mate". Obviously you don't know anything about the gay community, and gay lingo. It is the expression to us when you don't want to be too direct and say either partner or lover.
ragreen259, your post is the funniest I read in a while. But I guess it was unintentional?
Apart from specifically trying (without convincing me) to take apart the arguments of one poster, did you actually even read some of the other posts?
Such as the one quoting the director ("most straight women wouldn't ....), etc.
Such as the character being based upon Leslie Gore, who was definitely closeted back then, but has since come out.
...And yes, the term "room mate" is definitely gay code. Just as much as some of the other terms I just used: "straight", "closeted", "come out"... If you take them as literally as you did "room mate", you definitely get another meaning.
And finally, apart from Queen Elizabeth II (or possibly a handful of schizophreniacs, too) I have never actually heard anyone refer to him- or herself as "we".
We'll give you #3...
It would be hard for me to see why someone wouldn't see this -- or wouldn't want to. (My emphasis)
Hey everyone, don’t blame someone straight for not knowing the gay meaning of the term ‘roommate’. Only people used to using the word in the meaning ‘partner’ would really get it, I suppose. Gay terminology is like learning a foreign language, sort of. Maybe it’s time for this text, which I found online. I wonder how much most of you people will understand…. Do notice that the term 'roommate' is used in this text!
Gay lingo, lesson 1 – or ”Everything doesn’t necessarily mean what you think”.
Hi! Let me introduce myself, I am a babette, and a lot of people think my roommate is a den mother , which is definitely wrong. He is just an ordinary shirtlifter and my aunt. My sister is a dykon. As for myself, I would say I am a bit of a dutch boy. I haven’t yet met a dyke who was a separatist.
The other day, I got into the banana car and drove down to the docks, where I met an aggie who was easy to spot in a crowd, as he had a bit of a mince. He was a backgammon player and invited me for a sailor’s cup of tea, but frankly I wasn’t interested. I prefer my waffle at home, and I also tend to dislike people who walk with too much of a lisp. For a moment he got really scared I’d reveal his interest in backgammon to his bunker shy mates but that’s not my style. It’s absolutely code.
If you didn’t understand a word of what I just told you, it’s just because you are not familiar with the words and music.
[deleted]
Why are people so AFRAID of the truth... Perhaps ackowledging the gay reality makes them uncomfortable with their OWN selves...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesley_Gore
" [Lesley] Gore announced in 2005 that she is a lesbian.[5] She stated further that she did not know her own orientation until she was in her twenties, and after she discovered that she was a lesbian, she never gave much thought to exposing it publicly, but at the same time she took no great lengths to hide it.
Some commentators consider the lyric content of some albums, notably Someplace Else Now, to contain implicit references to Gore's sexuality. Her altering of known song lyrics was also thought to have implied her orientation as in her album The Canvas Can Do Miracles. On that album she covered the Grease song "You're the One That I Want", altering the line "cause I need a man" to "cause I need a friend".
Gore provided musical aid for the 1996 film Grace of My Heart, which featured a character (played by Bridget Fonda) whose struggles over her sexual orientation were similar to Gore's. Beginning in 2004, Gore could be seen hosting the PBS television series, In the Life, which focused on LGBT issues. Gore currently lives with her partner of over 23 years. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_of_My_Heart
" Elsewhere, real-life permeates Grace of My Heart in several forms [...] Similarly, Bridget Fonda has an extended cameo as Kelly Porter, a dewey faced ingenue not unlike Lesley Gore, well known for bubblegum angst like "It's My Party" and "You Don't Own Me." The lush ballad "My Secret Love" hints at Porter's lesbianism in a nod to Gore's own professed sexuality. Gore co-wrote the song, which is dubbed by Miss Lily Banquette of retro-lounge band, Combustible Edison. "
Wow, some people just don't get it!
"The time to make up your mind about people is never."
emenel, your post was very thorough and accurate. I think a lot of straights don't want to 'believe' real people are gay.
Maybe the poster should get in touch with Leslie Gore!
Buck, I got the impression from your post that you think lesbians can’t be beautiful, stylish, or pretty. Am I correct?
shareThis is an example of a lesbian couple that one really can't miss. I am a straight man, and even I didn't miss it the first time I watched this movie. And I'd like to add that not all men assume that all the pretty women are straight. :-D
I have a DVD with an excellent feature commentary with director Allison Anders, and I just watched these scenes with the commentary sound on. There isn't the shadow of a doubt what this is all about.
Allison Anders explains: "playing her girlfriend was the fabulous Lucinda Jenney". And the scene where the producer is trying to make a pass at Marion, she says about the producer: "I love that he is trying to pick up Lucinda that is clearly not interested in him at all. Most straight women aren't interested in that character, so ...."
In addition to the scenes and dialog mentioned by another poster, I can add that Kelly and Marion also exchange looks and smiles to the part of the lyrics that go: "And forever hide my lonely heart. My secret love". And during the blowing-of-the-kiss scene, Allison Anders' comment is: " I just love this look from Bridget to Lucinda - (she laughs) - it just kills me"
A favourite part of the dialog for me is the following:
(Denise) "I have heard that Johnny Crawford gave you a puppy for your birthday. That is so fabulous! He is such a dream boat"
(Kelly just looks bored)
(Cheryl) "He is very good looking"
(Kelly, quietly) "He is very nice. (loudly) He sweats a lot!"
(Then Marion enters the room and Kelly's face lights up)
I also found the following passage from the director's commentary interesting: "She (Lesley Gore) has a very amazing feminist perspective on how women were treated in the music business back then. Particularly singers ... and of course Bridget Fonda was a huge Lesley fan so this was amazing for her"
As for myself, I can only say that I am a huge Bridget Fonda fan. She is really one of my favourite actresses. In particular, I like that she looks so different in all her movies. And this 60s pastiche is just so great. I especially liked the way Bridget plays this rather frustrated character at full blast without making it into a parody. BTW according to Allison Anders, it is all Bridget's own hair, and it took very long to make like that.
In these scenes Illeana Douglas plays the mature, experienced married woman and Bridget Fonda plays - if not a teenager - then at least a very young artist. In real life Bridget is actually older than Illeana and was about 32 when this movie was made.
Morten
OK. When I am wrong I am wrong. You two people had very convincing arguments. Maybe you should join forces and start working as lawyers. In that case I'd plead guilty to being both naive and blind as a bat. Unfortunately unlike you folks I do not have the movie so I can go back and check the scenes.
shareBridget Fonda's character is a lesbian, and is based on Lesley Gore ("It's My Party") who is also a lesbian. Here's an interview where Lesley officially comes out (she says she never did it before because everyone in the industry knew) and on page 3 they specficially discuss this movie.
http://www.afterellen.com/People/2005/6/lesleygore.html
Note to MortenPedersen: only just read your first post (after posting myself) - interesting stuff. I bought and watched the film today, but haven't listened to the audio commentary. Looking forward to it.
The lion and the calf shall lie down together, but the calf won't get much sleep.share
I didn't know Lesley Gore was gay when I first saw this movie. When they mentioned "Kelly Porter" was a teen singing star with a T.V. show, I thought it was loosely based on Shelley Fabares. Not that Shelley is gay, but Bridget Fonda looks sort of like her in the early '60's with her hair that brown shade and her flip hairdo.
shareRight, because attractive young women can't possibly be lesbians.
shareThere are some very good points here, I was just going to say 'Um, hello... of course she's a lesbian!'... ;) You can tell the first time she is walking toward them and gets in an argument w/ her girlfriend. You only have arguments that erupt in tears like that w/ a significant other... And the way they stood so closely to each other.
I'll bet she was crying b/c she didn't want some other sappy love song about some stupid boy again.
Seems like she got the kind of song she was looking for ;)
I love the Kelly/Marion scenes: Kelly's Secret Love song is one of the standout moments in the film. Just listen to the lyrics!
shareYes, chuffnobbler, the lyrics are great! On the soundtrack the lyrics are the following. I.e. in a different sequence than in the movie, where the part spoken dramatically is earlier on.
My Secret Love (aka. I Refuse)
Love
Has never been easy for me
Can’t you see
I have always been lonely
Faith
It seems like a mystery
Girls like me
Have to hide our hearts away
If only we could live one day
Without the need to hide away
I’d tell the truth to everyone
How I live for you
But people never understand
They’ll destroy us if they can
Say we were struck down by the hand
Of heaven
We must be wise
And keep our disguise
Stand by our lies
My secret love
I refuse
To think of losing you
I won’t give the world
The chance of accusing you
I refuse
I’d sooner die than tell
I’m under your sweet spell
My secret love
No
Don’t say a single word
Can’t be sure
Can’t be sure that we won’t be heard
Like Romeo and Juliet
They will chase us to our death
Then voice their false regret
The liars
But since the day that we first met
Until I take my dying breath
I’ll be tangled in your net of desire
I refuse
To think of losing you
I won’t give the world
The chance of accusing you
I refuse
I’d sooner die than tell
I’m under your secret spell
My secret love
(break)
I refuse
To think of losing you
I won’t give the world
The chance of abusing you
I refuse
To tell the truth of you
I refuse for you
My secret love
(spoken)
You and I, we are like spies
In the house of holy love
We are actors in a heartless play
I smile my smile and play my part
And forever hide my lonely heart
My Secret Love
Of course she's a lesbian!! Or that's what you're meant to assume. The inspiration for that character was singer Lesley Gore, the most famous of the girl singers and a (closeted for many years) lesbian.
shareAre you a moron???? OF COURSE she is gay. Remember the song, "My Secret Love", that the two girls wrote for her????? Fonda's character Kelly Porter had to keep her affair with the girl that walks into the studio with her a "secret" back in that time, since no one ever came out in the 60's. Listen to the lyrics...the girls kind of quietly wrote her a song that really speaks to her, without ever letting her know that they knew that she was gay.
shareXenaUK asked a perfectly reasonable question. No need to call anyone a "moron."
It is subtle. Yes, I caught it the first time I saw the scene, but I appreciated the way the writers of the movie and song don't just hit us over the head with it.
Had I looked away from the screen at the wrong moment, or not caught some of the song lyrics, I might've missed it, too.
I'm watching the movie right now on AMC, and it's subtle but clear that the Kelly Porter character is a lesbian. It's the totality of everything that has been mentioned before that adds up to this conclusion. It would be hard for me to see why someone wouldn't see this -- or wouldn't want to.
I don't understand how some people could not get the fact that Bridget Fonda's character was gay.
The first time I saw the movie I realize it. It went over some people's heads I guess.
LOL, just saw the movie...SUBTLE it is not...they may as well have taken a hammer out.
shareJust thought I would add my two pence.
Being a straight male, I got it that the character was probably gay, and I appreciated what I interpreted to be the natural approach the movie took to let us know. I think the writers mostly just let the scenes speak for themselves without putting capital letters on it: SHE'S GAY!!!!
However, now as then, not everybody is switched on to gayness, and if someone doesn't catch on, I don't think they need to be flamed or treated as simple if they don't get it. I thought that ragreen259 raised some good points and even he(?) admitted that she might be gay after discounting most of the evidence brought up by the enemel. I don't see that as worth flaming. Instead I see that as a credit to the filmmakers. For once they did not say "S H E ' S G A Y!!!", but let it be as it was. Most straight people got it and for the gays watching they knew it without doubt. That's the sign of good filmmaking. Part of the misunderstanding is that the audience is used to certain Hollywood cues that let us know, but this time the filmmakers challenged us to get it and so some people did not get the message.
Nice post, quimbys.
I agree that nobody deserves to be flamed. But I also think that ragreen was the one who wasvery derogatory towards emenel, who had actually tried to make notes of some of the "clues" which make up the total impression. What I had a problem with, myself, was the fact that the poster (ragreen) read the post on May 25th, but did not bother to read the post on May 26th, when it is backed up by transcripts from the director's commentary. How can we ignore that information, straight [no pun intended] from the horse's mouth?
The character of pop star Kelly Porter is based on Lesley Gore. Lesley Gore co-wrote the song "My Secret Love" for the Porter character who sings it to her lover in the studio. "My Secret Love" pays homage to Lesley's hit "You Don't Own Me." Porter is a big-haired, closeted, lesbian teen idol like Gore who released albums with titles like "Boys, Boys, Boys."
shareIt must have been SO DIFFICULT for poor Lesley back then. I'm very glad that she can finally relax and be proud of who she is!!! Although Les did release "Boys, Boys, Boys", she also released an album called "Lesley Gore Sings To Girls In Love"!
share
People haven't mentioned the most obvious thing:
When the girl comes into the studio, she bursts into tears, sits on the couch, and starts weeping uncontrollably about her personal life. Denise says to her, "Boyfriends can be so hard," to which the girl replies, "I wouldn't know."
Well, it WAS posted back on May 25th (by emenel)
shareYes, very true. It was, however, buried in an extremely lengthy post mentioning 7 things, when in fact it's the only thing (and the most important thing) that really needs to be mentioned, IMO.
There was never a doubt in my mind her character was a lesbian. I always thought it was just completely obvious.
shareDude she is a huge lesbian, look at the big song she sings!
And the argument they have at the studio.
She's a lesbian, they are that good at hiding it in those times because it was that shun. These days it wouldnt be as hidden. But Lesbians rock!
Just watched this disappointing piece of flotsam but, in response to the question, I thought it was pretty obvious that Bridget Fonda's character was involved in a lesbian relationship with her "roommate". That was the whole point of the song they wrote for her about a secret, forbidden love.
shareFor god'a sake... it's really necessary to explain something SO DAMN OBVIOUS!!!!???
shareTHANK YOU WAVESHOCK!!! Just what I was thinking and came on here at almost 3am to say!! I remember this thread from many months ago and never understood why anyone would even QUESTION the orientation of "Kelly Porter" in the all of five minutes of her part. I am not going to repeat what all the other people that "GOT it" said, but also, you know, READ THE TRIVIA section provided for just about each movie on this site. Very valuable info there, including info about "Kelly Porter" and on whom she is based. That should clear up the obvious even more.
Now I can go to sleep.
"Why Pinto?"
"Why NOT?!"
I haven't seen this movie in a long time but it was anything but subtle. I remember how Douglas and the other person starting cracking up when they realized she was a dyke. And yeah, I right away thought Lesley Gore, who was in the closet big time back then. I mean, they did everything but come out and say it.
shareNaiive or stupid?
OF COURSE she is!!!
Let's see...
"Roommate"
"The PERSON you love"...
"Grab a drink later?" "UM, NO thank you"(Said as she looks lovingly at Kelly.
The very SONG they wrote implies it because the "Secret Love" is her "roommate".
Geez, Sheltered much?