Military inaccuracy


In the spirit of pointing out military inaccuracies, I'll go ahead again with this movie:

What the hell was the indoor saluting thing? In the Navy, we ABSOLUTELY NEVER salute indoors unless we're covered and on duty. If you're cover isn't on, you don't salute. Simple as that. That is an ARMY tradition.

Second, what the hell are officers yelling at each other for? The LT yelling at the LCDR? Officers don't yell at each other. They were acting like it was freaking Marine Corps boot camp or something.

Also Sailors boarding a ship in civilians clothes? meanwhile others were in uniform.

I understand it's a comedy and profits on grossly stereotyping the story and characters, but being in the Navy, this kinda stuff was glaring. There are inaccuracies which lend themselves well to this kind of comedy (such as fraternization- hot female lieutenant getting sexually harassed by enlisted sailors etc) but the inaccuracies I'm talking about have no comedic effect and are just annoying.

Maybe I'm just being a negative nancy, but does anyone else notice this stuff?
Great movie either way though!

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who cares, seriously.

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Agreed, it was a disaster. I specifically watch for military errors and this movie had a million on them.

When indoors, cover is off, except when in formation. However, you are wrong about the salute. If you are reporting to a higher-ranking officer indoors, you do salute them.

I'm in the military myself and I do (rarely) yell at E ranks as well as O. If they don't understand something, I will raise my voice.

Considering that Marines fall under the Navy, don't know why you even mentioned that.

But this is a movie, and the *ONLY* person have properly saluted was "Stepanek" at the end.

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It's a comedy for gods sake.

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Yes it is, but even SNL had some accuracies. It's kinda sad that a comedy would say an Ens outranks a Cmdr.

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Different movie, same topic. In the Hunt for Red October, late in the movie when the soviet sub is trying to destroy the Red October, the American crew members on the Dallas are trying to figure out what to do. At one point, the COB (chief of the boat) yells to LT Commander Thompson, "Hey Thompson - can we fire our torpedoes at that thing?" A chief should never address an officer (or a higher ranking enlisted man) by his last name.




Cats are delicate dainty animals who suffer from a variety of ailments ... except insomnia.

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"Hey Thompson - can we fire our torpedoes at that thing?" A chief should never address an officer (or a higher ranking enlisted man) by his last name.


He says Mr. Thompson, not "hey Thompson". Of course whether that's right is as relevant now as me replying to a four year old posting.

---
"My brain is better than EVERYBODY'S!"---Sheldon Cooper, The Big Bang Theory

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Not to pick nits, especially since this thread isn't technically even about "Red October", but to clarify:

Chief Watson didn't say "Hey" and he didn't say "Mr." His exact words were "Thompson, we have a firing solution on the Russian Alpha. Can we shoot back?"

But while his addressing Lt. Cmdr. Thompson only by his last name is not in line with standard military protocol, we aren't given anything about their relationship outside of that ship. Capt. Mancuso routinely called him simply "Tommy", so it's possible that the three of them had been friends for quite some time. It's even possible that they all had entered the Navy around the same time, and could have been using more familial names for years, despite having arrived at differing ranks over time. I have not read the novel, so this is of course pure conjecture.

Whether or not any of that holds true to how things actually operate at sea, well, that's another question altogether.

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I'm not sure what service you're in, but in the Navy/Marine Corps, we don't salute indoors, UNLESS you're cover is on (you're on duty or doing some sort of official reporting covered). If you stand before you're CO uncovered, you don't salute. Only Army and AF salute indoors.

Yelling at O's? No. Perhaps a senior O might yell at a more junior O, but outside of OCS, no one yells for the sake of yelling. Only if you fvcked up or something.

I don't know what you were getting at with the Marines vs Navy comment. You basically were correcting something that I never even mentioned.

I don't know why, but even for comedies, if you can't spend 2 minutes learning basic customs and courtesies, traditions, proper uniform wear, and the salute, it annoys me. The same applies if a movie has a blatant flaw with anything else that I am familiar with: science, religion or whatever. If you're going to produce a multi-million dollar production that focuses on some central idea or concept, then do a little research or hire a consultant.

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You mentioned which service I am in. :) I am very critical about the Marine Corps only because they are a non-congress service under the Navy's charter.

The comment is not negative or insulting, its simply a fact and you mentioned it above " ... but in the Navy/Marine Corps ... "

I also get very annoyed at the constant C&C errors in movies. I typically have to watch a movie several times to notice all the errors and then critique a movie. The one movie I don't think there were any C&C/Grade/Rank errors was Top Gun. && The one thing that annoys the cr@p out of me is when they refer to "Admirals" and "Generals" as those two, they forget or don't know that there are 4 grades of Admirals and Generals.

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The reason why I said the "Navy/Marine Corps" is because they follow basically identical military customs and courtesies, while the Army and AF follow their own different set of customs/courtesies. I'm well aware that the Marine Corps is under the department of the Navy. Not all officers are dumb. ;)

Top gun may have had no errors, but it was really gay. I still watch it from time to time, but hey! It's about Naval Aviation! I have to! Except Jets are gay. Helicopters, baby!

Admirals/Generals? What's the big deal? Nobody walks around saying "Lieutenant General XYZ". You just say "General XYZ".

You don't call someone "Lieutenant Commander XYZ". You just call him "Commander XYZ". The only time you'd call someone their official, full title is in a formal setting. That is actually the way we really do it, and I see no error with it.

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Dumb? No! Eccentric and sometimes egotistical, but never dumb. :)

How come jets are gay? awww! I'm pretty much okay with any type of transportation except train, not a train person.

About the Admiral/General's deal, yes, I do agree with you completely. However, the movies have to be accurate and I am a real stickler for it being just so.

Cheers!

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How come jets are gay? awww! I'm pretty much okay with any type of transportation except train, not a train person


Only AF jets are gay. Navy Jets ROCK!
(j/k in a friendly interservice rivalry)

Any idiot can land a plane on a 3 mile long NONMOVING runway

try doing it on a heaving carrier deck at night in 150 feet!
(not kidding)


As to the O.P.

Yes military inaccuracies do get to me when they are glaring and blatantly stupid, but the minor stuff that most pepole wont notice (even most military with pause,digital zoom,and frame-by-frame)then the nitpicker gets to me.

Take "Behind Enemy Lines"

The shootdown scene and the Bouncing Betty mine scene were HORRIBLY ATTROCIOUS

but when someone starts whinging on about some officer's ribbons being out of order, well then STFU

Note it for factuality.. but dont keep whining about it.

That being said... this movie was a COMEDY, it was not MEANT to be accurate.
Yes there were things that were quite stupid from a military point of view but this IS a comedy and really who cares.

I'm just glad my old ship made a cameo in it. (one of the decommed ships behind Stingray when they were refitting her was my old USS Halsey CG-23, and her sisters of the Leahy and Belknap class Guided Missile Cruisers.

What I find interesting in this movie is that while technically inaccurate and shown in a comedic way, many of the tactics employed by Stingray to avoid Orlando were real tactics.

Deceptive Lighting: Puting up the light on the Periscope shears and running on one diesel to simulate a fishing boat.

Bottom Capture: losing contact with a vessel on the bottom due to the sonar bouncing of the ocean bottom

Sonar Decoy:Sonar's tricking Orlando with imitated whales is much like our torpedo decoys which simulate recorded submarine sounds to seduce away passive homing torpedoes.

Also there is the facts that a loud contact can mask the sonar signal from a quiter contact such as with the Tanker and the Stingray at the end (though the whole "coming in between the screws" was stupid

And a Hull DOES compress several inches on deep submergence so the whole bit with the string across the hatchway was real enough as well.

The whole Whiskey in the mix to get a few more RPM was BS, however there are a few real tricks the old Diesel Boats used on real patrols to get a few extra knots of speed. Leavfing the Low pressure Blower motors on would send a stream of bubble out from the bottoms of the free-flooding Ballast Tanks and around the sides of the hull. This would cut down on the friction between the hull and the water streaming along the hull and allow the boat and extra knot or two of speed. This was used in real life by at least one Sub Commander during WW2 (O'Kane/USS Tang. Source: Clear the Bridge, the 5 war patrols of USS Tang by Dick O'Kane)





I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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Thanks Sailor, I am now sea sick lol. There is a terrific rush that comes from a plane taking off then turning blue on a boat/ship.

I did not know "Down Periscope" was pretty much factual, thanks for letting us know.

Here is a question from me that confused the heck out of me.

The Lt that was the "pilot" kept giving instructions: 1 degree down bubble, 2 degree down bubble, amidship... What the hell does all that mean?

I am thinking bubble=altitude (in water)
amidship = ????????

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The Lt that was the "pilot" kept giving instructions: 1 degree down bubble, 2 degree down bubble, amidship... What the hell does all that mean?

I am thinking bubble=altitude (in water)
amidship = ????????


bubble is not altitude in water... That's Depth.

Attitude is more near the mark.

bubble/angle is interchangeble. Sometimes you will hear 5 degrees down angle rather than down bubble. Bubble comes from the old inclinometers used to measure angle on the boat. What they are doing with those orders is altering the fore to aft pitch angle of the boat as it rises or decends in the water.

Zero bubble means the submarine is perfectly level in a fore to aft (front to rear) aspect.

X degrees down bubble(angle) means the bow is pointed lower by that amount of degrees

X degrees up angle(bubble)is just the opposite, the bow is angled up that many degrees.


Amidships is more ambiguous, and depends on the context.

In Helm orders it usually refers to rudder orders and is heard as "Rudder Amidships" This means to center your rudder so that the ship/boat is not turning either to port or starboard. The boat will travel straight ahead.

Amidships can also refer to a general location aboard ship usually around the middle of the ship. "The missile struck the destroyer amidships at the waterline" means the hit took place in the middle of the ship (between bow and stern) and right above the water.

The reason for all the slight changes of angle on the boat that Lt Lake was giving was because they were attempting to ground the sub on the ocean bottom. You don't want to have any angle because you want to touch down level, but you still have to get down to the bottom and that needs a slight angle for the sub to swim down. Subs dont change depth by altering their Ballast/bouyancy, They maintain neutral bouyancy and swim the ship up or down by their motors/screws and change the angles on the boat to swim the ship up or down in the water column.

Subs CAN change depth just by altering bouyancy rather than swimming up and down but that is not good for both tactical as well as practical considerations.

Tactically because blowing and flooding your tanks to alter bouyancy is noisy and you want quiet.

Practically because while it is easy to get negative bouyancy (sinking), all you got to do is flood your tanks with seawater. it is more difficult to get rid of negative bouyancy and regain neutral (floating) or Positive (rising) bouyancy, You have to pump out that water with high pressure air (which is in a limited supply and can only be regained on the surface).



I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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Hello Sailor, (sorry, cheap pun)
Seems we've crossed paths before.
Just thought i'd ask a man in the know, Is it possible for a sub to come in between the screws? & why not just come in below them & rise up again below the tanker?

The Gunslinger smiled. "On the way to the Dark Tower," he said, "anything is possible."

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No it's not really.
The turbulence would be far too great and the sub and ship would be damaged. A Modern sub may not be destroyed, but a WW2 Fleet Type Sub would have most likely been destroyed. That scene was PURE HOLLYWOOD BS.

What the scene did represent in real life as I have stated before is that a strong contact on the same Line-Of-Bearing(LOB) can mask a quieter contact.

They dont have to be directly under the contact, just on the same LOB. Also what is a quiet/noisy contact is relative, not absolute. A quiet contact very close could be louder than a noisy contact far away.

RADAR is very good, very accurate. Once radar contact is gained on a target, it generally is not lost until:
a)Target moves out of range
b)Target destroyed
c)Radar is jammed
d)Target drops below radar horizon

Other than that, radar is pretty straight forward.
Sonar? Not so much...


Sonar is still almost as much art as science in trying to maintain contact.
Sound travels thrrough water in a predictible manner. Problem is, those predictions are mased on sertain conditions and variables. WAY TOO MANY VARIABLES and they are almost never all known.
Convergence zones
Direct path
Bottom Bounce
Thermalclines
Salinity Factors
Water tempuratures
Currents
Marine life
Surf noise
Maritime Merchant traffic
Background noise from the Arctic/Antarctic Ice shelfs

to name just a FEW.

If a sub is in the same LOB as another strong noise source, and the sub has a lower radiated noise level. it will dissapear from the scope unless one of three things happens.
a) The Bearings change so that they are no longer on the same LOB
b) The Radiated noise level chages so the sub is louder
c) The sub has a descrete tonal frequency that can be detected despite the background noise.

A Broadband Display will show noise in the water in a Bearing over time waterfall display. I will use a Game screenshot for clarity,
http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~ianboys/sub50.gif
The randon dots on the screens are noise in the water. from left to right is the bearing (Direction) the noise is on. The display does not show range, from top to bottom is TIME, not DISTANCE. the top display shows a period of 1 minute (60 sec). The Bottom display a 30 minute period. Niose currently being detected is at the TOP and the direction by how far left or right it is. over time the dots move down the screen This is why it is called a Waterfall display.

Louder noise, shows up as brighter dots. Over time this develops into a line moving down the screen from top to bottom. A line that is slowly angling to the left or right show a change in bearing to the contact. The rapid shifts you see on the bottom display are from cource changes by the sub the sonar is on (Ownship)

here is a real Waterfall Display
http://www.naval.com.br/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/waterfall-sona r-display.jpeg

Narrowband Sonar takes a single bearing and displays by descrete frequency the noise detected on just that bearing. From this can be determined the identity of the Contact. Most navies develop a large frequency database on most military ships and subs.
http://www.mille-sabords.com/images/articles/dw_usni52.jpg
The top display is the same as the broadband, only showing the current time, rather than dots moving down the screen and brighter dots being louder, the loudness is shown by spikes in the waveforms. the Middle display is taking the spike at bearing 051 and breaking it down into it's descrete frequencies. We can see this contact at 051 has noise frequencies radiating at 50, 155, 450, and 1100 hertz. According to the database (lower display) this is probably a russian KILO class sub.


Sonar is still very chancy and hard to track as you can see by all the variable. thats why Accidents such as the USS Greenville/Ehime Maru collision and sinking happen.

We do build them tough though
http://www.maritimequest.com/in_the_news_pages/uss_san_francisco_groun ding/04_uss_san_francisco_damage.jpg
http://marcvaldez.blogspot.com/uploaded_images/sf_e-710341.jpg
http://www.solarnavigator.net/images/Sonar_submarine_SSN-711_nose_dama ge.jpg

USS San Francisco ran into an uncharted underwater mountain at maximum speed. 500 feet below the surface. One sailor was killed in the collision. The sub was able to emergency surface and was able to make it back Guam for repair.





I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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Nice one, thanks for that. I'd always wondered about that. thought it was probably hollywood cr@p but now i'm glad i know for sure. cheers
Just watched it a couple of days ago again.
The other thing i wondered about too was (sorry, i won't ask you every detail of the movie) when Grammer says "No time, gotta shoot from the hip"
Can you actually "shoot from the hip" on a sub? or would you need exact co-ordinates?

The Gunslinger smiled. "On the way to the Dark Tower," he said, "anything is possible."

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"Shoot from the hip" is a colloqial expression meaning to "fire without aiming"

In reference to firing the torpedoes, Dodge was meaning to fire the torpedoes using best estimates and not a good firing solution.

Torpedoes, Modern or WW2 era, dont use co-cordinates like Latitude and Longitude. Old WW2 torpedoes were what was called Straight running Torpedoes. They had no guidance system.

Prior to firing, the torpedo would be loaded with certain information such as:

Run Speed (how fast the torpedo travels, only on variable speed torpedoes)
Run Depth ( how deep below the surface the Torp runs)
Gyro Angle (the degrees left or right the torpedo turns after leaving the tube)

After firing, the torpedo will turn to the preset gyro heading and run straight at the set depth and speed until it hits a target or runs out of fuel. It has no ability to detect a target and home in on its own.

The Sub Commander must use multiple observations of the target to develop its Bearing course speed and range. this is input into a analog computer along with the subs course heading and speed. The result is the firing angle needed to hit the target. This is the gyro angle the torpedo is set to.

In the above example, Firing from the hip would mean imputing the Targets information based on the commanders best estimate without any tracking or multiple observations. a Best guess.

Modern Torpedoes do have their own active passive sonars and are capable of detecting, lockign on to and homing on a target all on their own after launch. But they still have some inputs that must be set before firing. The better the inputs, the greater the odds that the torpedo will lock on to the target. Again, firing from the hip means foregoing the usual set up and just firing.

In Modern Subs it would be considered a Snapshot. A Snapshot is where you fire a torpedo down a certain bearing and have it look for a target on its own without having time for a proper lockon.
Why would one do this? As a defensive move.

EXAMPLE:
Your sonar tech detects high speed screw inbound bearing 350. Someone just fired a torpedo at you. You do not have anything on the submarine that fired on you, just the torpedo itself. So you would Snapfire your torpedo down the bearing 350 hoping that it will detect the firing sub. Even if it doesnt, the enemy sub must now make evasive maneuvers against your torpedo and possibly break the control wire of his own torpedo (if it is wire-guided).

One of the problems with "Down Periscope" is that Stingray is an old WW2 Fleet Type Submarine of the Balao class. It would not have the proper Fire control systems to use a modern Mk-48 ADCAP torpedo. Dodge would have been using the old straight running torpedoes like the Mk-23, Mk-14 Mk-18 etc..




I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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So as long as he was pointing in the right direction & had the right Run Depth, he'd hit his target?

Nothing like the Red October then? :)

Thanks for that info, very interesting. Nothing like what i would have expected. maybe i've not watched enough WWII Navel movies with me Dad :)

The Gunslinger smiled. "On the way to the Dark Tower," he said, "anything is possible."

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Nothing like the Red October then? :)



Red October showed Modern torpedoes equiped with their own sonars as I stated above. Straight running torpedoes were from WW2. and were weapons for attacking Surface ships ONLY. They really could not be used against submarines unless the sub was surfaced. Stuff like you see in U-571 with two submarines firing at each other while both were submerged was BS.

If you are interested in WW2 subs and how they fought, A couple of good books I recommend:

Clear the Bridge: The war patrols of USS Tang
By: Richard O'Kane

Torpedo Junction
By: Homer Hickam


CtB is a Biographical account writen by Dick O'Kane, the CO of USS Tang for all 5 of her war patrol. Tang was one of the most decorated and successful boats ever to fight the Japanese, until she was sunk by one of her own defective topedoes that circle ran on her.

TJ is more of a historical account of the Submarine war off the US East coast and is very graphic in its depictions of life at sea and the hunting of the U-boats as well as the dangers merchantmen faced on being torpedoed at sea.
The Author, Homer Hickam is the same man who wrote October Skies, His biography of growing up in a coalmining town and his strive to be a Rocket Scientist. (Made into a Movie starring Jake Gyllenhal as Homer)



I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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Nice one, cheers Sailor.

I'll give them a flick. I'll read anything me, especially bios. Dick Winters book "Biggest Brother" is one of the best i've read. Probably not up your street though, being a Navy chap :)
Thanks again for th info

The Gunslinger smiled. "On the way to the Dark Tower," he said, "anything is possible."

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Dick Winters book "Biggest Brother" is one of the best i've read. Probably not up your street though, being a Navy chap :)

Not really but I do read some. Mostly navy for me though. My little Brother however was Army (101st, Air Assault, before he went MP) and reads a lot on Army/Landforces books and He would be interested. I'll pass it along. He Loves Band of Brothers.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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Since I'm not a Navy man, I'll throw this at you, to get an expert opinion...

Another thing I noticed was at the end when Adm. Graham went to Adm. Winslow and started off with "Sir this entire exercise is invalid..." he failed to salute him. I realize they're both Admirals, but since Adm. Winslow was a three-star, and Adm. Graham was only two, shouldn't he have saluted him before addressing him?

Also, at the beginning, Adm. Graham is running down Dodge's fit-rep, and he mentions that the Murmansk brushing incident was only three years earlier, and that Dodge got his infamous tattoo (which we find out later came immediately after that incident) as an Ensign. Is it actually possible for a man to go from Ensign to Lt. Cmdr. in only three years? And maybe even less than three years, considering that was the third time Dodge was up for his own boat?

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Good catch on the second part. No... there is no way to go from an ENS to a
LCD in only 3 years or less.
That would be a Film goof.


It has been a while since I saw the film. I know the scene in question about the two admirals but don't remember the exact circumstances of the meeting.
Was it indoors?
Was it part of an ongoing conversation or immediately upon meeting the other Admiral.

Navy does not salute indoors or uncovered.
Also you only need to salute upon meeting, not every time you speak.
Graham may have saluted Winslow earlier (off camera) and then the film cuts to them in the middle of the meeting.




I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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The scene with the two Admirals was on the docks, as Admiral Winslow was walking from his car to meet the crew of the Stingray, and Admiral Graham had just landed in the helicopter returning from the Orlando. It did not appear to me that he could have saluted before he was on camera, since we see Admiral Winslow returning the salutes of other personnel in different directions, but not returning a salute in Admiral Graham's direction.

Not that I'm terribly surprised, mind you, since Admiral Graham spent the entire movie being unprofessional. I just wanted to clarify if I was seeing things correctly. And of course, Admiral Winslow cut him off in mid-sentence and rubbed his face in the fact that he just lost his first war game ever to a mere Lt. Cmdr. whom he had considered to be a screw-up unfit for command :)

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"If they don't understand something, I will raise my voice."

I sincerely hope you mean that you raise your voice if they cannot hear you well, or at all. Otherwise, that's pretty crappy leadership.

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Nope. I was in the Navy for 8 years, never once saluted an officer indoors.

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Being a Sailor myself I've simply realized that I can't look at all the details or it ruins the movie. As for the thing about being in civies boarding the ship, I checked aboard my first ship in civilian clothes. Granted, there were certain circumstances involved but even so it can be done. A retired senior chief once told me that out of every Navy movie he'd ever seen, this was the most accurate as to the general spirit of the navy haha.

Definitely on my top 5.

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chikitiki67 - I also have a friend who is retired Navy and he said the same thing. We were discussing sub movies at work one day and I asked him if any movie had ever come close to the real thing. He laughed and said Down Periscope was as close as anyone has ever gotten to what life on a sub and the types of sailors than man them was really like. He served aboard numerous subs and said there was a guy like Nitro on every one.

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It wouldn't be Hollywood without gross inaccuracies.
(I'm an Air Force brat, so I know how you feel)

NCIS-Is that anything like CSI?
Only if you're dyslexic

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Inaccuracies? In this movie? You gotta be kidding? The crew are about the most normal I ever did or would expect to have come across in the Navy. All the rank, insinia, civlian clothes and everything else? Walking the plank? Saluting below decks??? Ok, had this been 'The Hunt For Red October', 'The Last Detail', 'A Few Good Men', 'Men of Honor', 'Pearl Harbor' or any other navy fick which was remotely serious, then yeah, ok, but this, gentlemen, is 'Down Percope' and a requirement of watching it is to sit back, take the hair out of your a$$ and enjoy it!

That is all.

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For heavens sake its a film for entertainment not a navy training film!

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Broadsman,

You can be anything you want in life EXCEPT a movie critic/reviewer.

Your statement is not applicable with a movie that has a Military-style plot.



Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis is how many syllables?

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You‘re over looking the fact the crew consisted of hand picked screw ups who had one foot out the door anyway. Any mistake attributed to personnel or policy wasn‘t a mistake for the character.

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[deleted]

Why is everyone stating the class of the submarine saying Balao? The word is "Vallejo" class! Va-lay-ho is the California pronunciation.It is a city just Northeast of San Francisco and named after General Mariano Vallejo from early California History.


Why is everyone saying Balao? Because you are a moron.

They are not mispronouncing Vallejo... The Word IS BALAO.
Balao was the Sub class, very similar to the Gato class subs.

The Gato/Balao class Fleet Submarine was the pinnacle of advanced submarines for the US Navy during WW2.
The Balao (SS-285) class was conceived as an improved Gato (SS-212) class submarine. The United States Navy built hundreds of "fleet boat" submarines during the Second World War. One hundred thirty-two of the Balao class, the most common U.S. submarine of the war, were constructed at shipyards throughout the country. As part of this effort, beginning in 1940, an order was placed for 73 Gato-class vessels, "in response to the realization that the U.S. would probably become involved in the current war." Longer, tougher, and with more endurance, the Gatos were supplemented after Pearl Harbor by an order for 132 near-identical Balao-class submarines. The Balaos were slightly reconfigured for prefabrication and were built with a higher tensile steel that extended their diving depth 100 feet beyond the Gato boats' 300-foot operating limit

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/ss-285.htm

WW2 Submarines were named after Various Saltwater Fish.
The Balao is just such a Fish...
http://books.google.com/books?id=09SA7lO-DJwC&pg=PA102&lpg=PA1 02&dq=Fish+Balao&source=bl&ots=rbGCyYNxGQ&sig=JmmCRoGD xu24fOOHoQz7q1jh0-8&hl=en&ei=0vfaS5vgJ8L88AbB-7RU&sa=X&amp ;oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CAoQ6AEwAQ#v=onepa ge&q=Fish%20Balao&f=false

Many of the most famous and daring of Submarines from WW2 are of the Balao class, to include:
BOWFIN
CREVALLE
SEAHORSE
SKATE
TANG
ARCHERFISH
PERCH
SEALION
BARBEL
PAMPANITO
ETC..


So now that you feel totally stupid, you might want to delete you post that shows your ignorance.





I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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Sailor:

Given I don't live too far from Vallejo it's also known as this:

If you pronounce it 'Spanish Style' it's: "Va-Yeh-ho"

IF you want to be sarcastic you call it: 'Valley-Joe';

Or you can call it 'Little Manila North' or 'Squid-town';


NM

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We have the same problem with a local town around here.

Refugio, Texas.

You'll get dirty looks if you call it Re-Fuge-Eo
Even the local common way of call it Re-Fer-Rio is technically wrong but thats how everyone says it.

But that Jacka$$, Amazon, Was completely missing the point.

Balao was not some idiot mispronouncing Vallejo.
It was that idiot, Amazon, that made the mistake of assuming the Sub was named after Vallejo, CA.
Rather than the Balao Fish.



I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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The Balao is the fish? AND all these years I thought it was pronounced 'Bally-hoo'; used to love that goofy looking fish back when I used to buy 'Saltwater sportsman' & all the inventive ways they would prep the darned thing for trolling.

NM

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I agree. All of them were considered "problem children" in one way or another and not only their reporting clothes choices, but also their dress uniform appearance at the end of the film shows that these goofballs probably couldn't pass an inspection if you held a gun to their heads.

I've seen people talking about the diesel chief being constantly out of uniform (Hawaiian shirt), but that can be easily explained in two words: "civilian contractor". Look at him in the close-ups and you can see how 'grizzled' he is. Face it, he's elderly, unshaven, and probably the best expert on that type of sub that they could find. Did Adm. Graham want Dodge to fail the war games? Yes. Did he want to be responsible for the deaths of a lot of sailors? No. So he brought on a contractor who was retired Navy and knew his stuff.

Nearly all military films have inaccuracies - IIRC, they are required to. This 'requirement' came to a head in this movie, especially if you look at the way the men continued to wear their uniforms while onboard (especially after the plank-walking ceremony) as well as the glaring fact of Buckman's weight, which would have definitely had him slimming down or shipping out before reporting for duty anywhere, I would imagine.

Yes, I'm ex-Navy as well and love Down Periscope for the lighthearted comedy it is. You want serious and/or accurate, look in the 'Drama' and 'Documentary' genres.

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Military movies are not required to be inaccurate. That's a myth.

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I'm just expressing my opinion.

You may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas.

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Nearly all military films have inaccuracies - IIRC, they are required to. This 'requirement' came to a head in this movie

This requirement did not come to a head in this film because there is no such requirement.

All films, Military or not are going to have inaccuracies. It's the nature of creating a fictional scene rather than filming a live event. The best films try to keep them to a minimum and try to be as accurate as possible but in the end it's impossible to be perfectly accurate.


What you are recalling as a "requirement" concerns military UNIFORMS. Even that, however, is wrong. Urban Myth.
Supposedly every Military uniform seen on film or TV is going to intentionally have at least one "mistake" in order to be legal. Because it is a criminal offense to wear a military uniform if you are not military and have the right to wear it.

Sounds plausible, and has some grain of truth to it. Most urban myths do.
It is true that it's illegal for a civilian to wear a military uniform and pretend he is military, to pass himself off as Military. Just as it is illegal to pass oneself off as a Cop. However that does not apply to ACTORS in the process of MAKING A MOVIE. They can wear a military uniform if they are playing a military character in a Movie or TV show, Documentary re-enactment, whatever. There is no requirement to alter at least one detail to make it legal.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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Wrong sunshine i can and have been a film critic and your rather ridiculous wish to have total accuracy it what is a comedy film just for entertainment is both childish and highly silly to say the least!
I repeat nobody in their right mind would expect this to be accurate other than a Navy watanabe!
IT'S NOT A TRAINING FILM BUT A HIGHLY ENTERTAINING COMEDY FILM!
SO Stick that in your Popeye play bubble pipe and smoke it!

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Other military inaccuracy. The enterance to the Chesepeake isn't deep enough for a sub to run under a tanker. In fact all they would do is push sand up the Bay.

Ask the Royal Navy sometime about having a Cruiser find a sandbar in the Bay after refusing a pilot. The Captain was quoted as saying, "I've been in this Bay 5 times, I think I know what I am doing."

The number of small boats that sailed out to look at the grounded vessel made the whole incident look like a regata. It finally took a high tide and two of the big tugs from Newport News Shipbuiling and Dry Dock to get her off.

Time wounds all heels.

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those who made the movie must have laughes so hard when they tought to themselves: "these little goofs will be debated 15 years from now"

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And you are doing a little more than Trolling the boards

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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Nobody would've known or particularly cared because they were just going for laughs in it.

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One thing I would like to know about this film, when they are on run being chased by the Nuclear Sub, the Stingray disguises itself as a fishing trawler, is it actually possible to effectively turn a submarine into a trawler

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Vessels at sea are governed in how their lighting is arranged. there are requirements about how high, where, and through how many degrees of arc that navigation lights, masthead lights, port and starboard running lights, stern lights etc... are shown, what colors, how bright, when and under what conditions. these vary from class of ship, whether it is sail or powered, the size of the ship. etc.

In the darkness of the oceans, those lights are all you have to go by visually.

In addition to those lights, many ships will display many more lights as well. A Cruise ship for example would be lit up like a Christmas tree with all the lights blazing away. A Ship engaged in diving operations or fishing, may have their work areas lit by massive floodlights. The possibilities are endless.

US Navy ships and other countries warships in general operate under what is called "Darken Ship" conditions. No lights are to be allowed or displayed topside at night. Not even smoking a cigarette. You'd be surprised at just how far a single cherry glowing on the end of a cigarette can be seen in the total darkness.
During peacetime, a Naval ship will ONLY display those lights required by law (Her navigation lights). During actual combat, or wartime conditions, even those can be turned out completely.

That being said... The USN and others often engage in a practice known as Deceptive lighting. This is the intentional rearrangement of the navigation lights and/or displaying of additional lights to disguise the ships identity at night.

During one such training exercise, we made our 7,900 ton Cruiser look like a 100,000 ton Aircraft Carrier. At least at night and from a distance. based on lights alone.
(White sheets from a Bunk stretched in a square frame and back lit by low intensity lights look amazingly like the lit open hanger bays of the carrier from a distance.)

By having R.J. place a light at the top of the extended periscope, and turning on the rest of the navigation lights that normally would have been off (for a naval vessel trying to hide) Cdr Dodge was engaging in deceptive lighting.

The US Navy does not use old diesel subs anymore so they (Orlando) was not expecting to come across one. By training one screw and running on the diesels on the surface, Dodge was again advertising their presence, something no naval ship trying not to be found would do.

One can only evaluate a target based upon known information.
What information did Cdr Knox have?

Surface contact
Diesel propulsion
Single Screw
lit up with navigation and running lights (including a masthead light 55' above the water)
Loud boisterous singing

Knox was looking for an unknown sub threat, in a navy that only uses Nuclear Subs.

Does the above information lead you to think this is the threat trying to sneak past you? or is it a boatload of beered up fishermen?

Remember, at night, especially in bad weather, all you got to go on is the lights themselves, you won't be able to make out the vessel itself.






I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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