Can women go to war?


Can they?

Sometimes it's the smallest decisions that can change your life forever. - Felicity

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Please, answer me!

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yes they can but they are never put or allowed at the frontline infantry combat

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Yes, they can and do.

There are women in every branch of the armed forces and there are very, very few jobs closed to them (Infantry, Armor, Special Forces; not sure about Artillery in the Army). Since the idea of a "front line" is becoming more and more abstract, women are seeing combat in mubers that are unprecedented in the American Military experience.

And doing a damn fine job, too.

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Women are not allowed in artillery units in the U.S. Army. The rest of your list is spot-on.

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You Americans probably don't care, but I'll let this be said...

In some countries, like Canada and Israel, women can join the combat arms. The Combat Arms being Infantry, Armour, Engineers and Artillery...

In fact, only a few weeks ago, a female captain was killed in Afghanistan, she was a forward artillery observation officer.


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I thought that Females could join SOCOM, but not the actual teams, as in support and such....

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[deleted]

[deleted]

ok, ignoring the homophobic stereotyping, I'm also fairly sure that women are not permitted to be on submarine crews, but that may have changed. Is that correct?

-JM

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"The only women who go to battle carry Ellen's photo in their backpockets?" What the beep is that supposed to mean? That only lesbians have muscles or that only lesbians aren't content to stay at home and have kids? Either way, it's bull. Try offering an educated opinion

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Oh dear. Do we have to endure that ugly and arrogant word "homophobe" even in this thread? Can't we even discuss this issue without reference to homosexuality??

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My sister would disagree, and as she's an Apache pilot, I think she'd be more than willing and able to track your sorry butt down and blow it up for saying it!

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Women can serve in Field Artillery and Air Defense Artillery units.

Women can serve as:

13R - Multichannel Transmission Systems Operator/Maintainer

13S - Field Artillery Surveyor

13W - Field Artillery Meteorological Crewmember

14E - PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator

14M - Man Portable Air Defense System Crewmember

14T - PATRIOT Launching Station Enhanced Operator/Maintainer

Warrant Officer Jobs:

131A - Field Artillery Targeting Technician

140E - PATRIOT System Technician

Women also serve in infantry units: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/12/AR2005051202002.html

Women also serve in Special Operations PSYOPS and Civil Affairs units serving in a myriad of jobs and duties.


"Toto, I've [got] a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore."

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A intresting post I found regarding this subject....

women are trained to be in combat. the question should be if they should be allowed in combat units as infantrymen, mortarmen, etc., and the answer is NO.

it is not about how well a female is with doing PT or carrying a rucksack. the Army needs to field a fighting force that presents the least problems and mixing men and women in combat arms units is inviting trouble.

i have served in the infantry and support units and i can tell you that i would not want my combat arms forces to look anything like my support units.

that is not saying that females can't do their duty, they can, and they do a great job. the problem would be that a female would not be able to have a family or expect to standout in a all male infantry unit. her chances of success are almost zero.

if she gets pregnant by her husband, her career in the infantry is basically over. she would be a liability to the unit (because she would not be able to train for over a year). if she gets pregnant while on r&r in iraq and she holds a leadership position, imagine the impact that has on a unit (i've seen what it can do to a support unit in iraq).

people want to ignore these issues in the name of equality and they don't understand that a female going into the infantry (no matter how hard she is) is doomed to failure, unless they lessen the standards and completly change our doctrine.

it is a damn shame that men and women have seperate PT standards, but now people want to all of sudden want the combat arms to comform to their warped sense of "equality" by adding females into the ranks.

well, there is no equality in the combat arms and there never will be. the mission is to field the strongest combat force and adding females will not make the infantry stronger, there is nothing to be gained, except more issues that have nothing to do with killing the enemy.

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Women have been in wars since forever. Either they are medics, supply clerks, personnelmen, chauffers, cooks, laundry, and recently, they have been in combat. But there have been documented cases of women disguising themselves so they could join (Revolutionary War, Civil War, Joan of Arc).

I was in the Navy when Diane Fienstein (D-CA) and Patricia Shroeder (D-CO) began pushing the bill thru to get women into infantry and on the frontlines. They argued that a woman could do anything a man could do and have the ability to keep a clear mind when under fire.

Then Hollywood started coming out with Courage Under Fire and GI Jane, mocking the women in combat, and showing women as weak and unprepared or guinea pigs, and the issue was swept under the carpet....until the whole Jessica Lynch ambush four years ago. The jury is still out, but I guess someday women will be in the Seals, ReCon, Green Berets, etc....

Personally, I don't think women belong in infantry, but what do I know?

Cameron: Foreman, do you know who we are?
Foreman: Cameron. My dad. And the manipulative bastard.

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For 223fmj; a small technical point. females are allowed in air defense artillery units, (patriot missile units, etc), but they are not allowed in field artillery units as part of the weapon's crew, (cannons, etc)

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Northlite45-I take it you've been to war and seen this firsthand huh?
Ulitmatefigheter187-It's our country too. We should be able to fight for it actually some of us are...where are you?

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She's fighting in the military.

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are you referring to bodiemomma or levoices? Because Levoices IS fighting and she said so on a different board; bodiemomma's the one who mentioned a sister.

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Well, maybe she's not in service now, but she's definetly served in the past.

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Actually, I'm not so naive as you think. I've known plenty of hypocrites in my time and learned long ago not to take things at face-value. I believe what Levoices said because she gave specific examples of her time in service in another board and, as a matter of fact, she defended the idea that many women shouldn't be admitted because of lack of physical strength, which gave me the impression that she wasn't lying about being in the military just so she could have a defense for female soldiers. I have no plausible reason to think she's lying; if a man says he served, would you believe him or automatically wonder if he's lying?

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That honestly wasn't a shame tactic; I was genuinely wondering if you usually automatically doubt or question what people say online, not because I think you're a bad guy but because you seem kind of wary sometimes. That could be a good thing, though. In some cases, of COURSE I know you should question someone's words; I sure as hell wouldn't accept some online person's invitation to meet them just because they seemed nice. My main thing about levoices was that not only do I not really have a reason to doubt her, but I have nothing to lose by believing her. Still, I guess I could take it as a good thing that you think I'm good at shame tactics; that might be useful to me later.

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You said women shouldn't be in combat or the military...so would you take their place? You make yourself sound like you could handle the job...

As I said it is our country too. I am in the military. The USMC. I am not a whore nor am I butch (on the small side but muscular), I can carry a fullpack in full gear, run a high pft and I shoot all my weapons pretty well. As for fighting I'm pretty good at that too but have had my @$$ beat a few times but at least I made the other guy hurt.

As for the femanazi's...It is not 100% our country as there still is inequality in the workforce for women. Now if they aren't qualified I have no problem with a woman or anyone being hired. This definately includes jobs where strength is an issue. If you have to lift 150lbs minumum and can't, then that is why you weren't hired not because you have breasts.



Oh and before you say ASVAB waiver or highschool dropout know this, I am nearly finished with my bachelors degree and I have seen and worked with members from dozens of different governments. So if I decided to get into politics then I have some overseas work experiance.

Many in the military do online classes as it is available pretty much anywhere...even in Iraq and Afghanistan...friends of mine over there were able to finish their degrees whenever they had free time they would use it to do their schoolwork. Alot of us use the internet to keep in touch myspace, facebook and imdb in paticular. So maybe that would explain how I could post things...there is also a thing called leave or liberty in which a military member is granted free time.

Finally, If you think that everyone in the military fights for the politicians reasons then you are blind.

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This is too funny. I used to have a girlfriend who had done service in the U.S. military - like all the rest, for college money of course. Great reason for joining. Here in Sweden we have a conscript army, and women can join if they want to - and they always get the best positions, of course, always become corporals if they aren't outright retarded. I have talked to many of them, and not a single one joined because she wanted to defend her country. Instead, it was about having "fun," seeing if they could "make it," etc. The military has become one big Marxist propaganda field, like schools and many other government fields.

I remember from the first Gulf War, how a female captain in the Air Force was whining because they were going to ask female pilots to do war missions. I think in the end they didn't have to. GET OUT!

In the Izzy army, they have plenty of experience of females in the field. You know what research shows? Women don't cut it. Far more than men, they break under pressure and go "Why are we here? I want to go home!" Gee, could that have something to do with, I don't know, women and men being DIFFERENT? No, let's ignore studies of body chemistry and evolutionary psychology. Fanatical ideology is all that matters!

Studies have also shown that in the field, men will abandon mission objectives in order to protect the females. Of course they will, they are men, and it is their instinct to protect women - that's how we survive as a species. Yet another reason to keep the women far away from the front lines.

What about service jobs in the military? Real smart. Those positions could be used for soldiers to get some rest from the front lines. But fill them with women, and the male soldiers will have to fight in the frontlines non-stop.

But wait - women want to fight too, right? Wrong. Like I said, I have yet to meet a single woman who joined up for the right reasons. (Oh, but I'm sure that all of the sudden, in this thread, we will find one. What a coincidence.) And look now, after the neocon invasion of Iraq: recruitment numbers fall for both men and women, yes, but much more for women. I wonder why?

Nothing like a little WAR to make women BACK OFF from the MILITARY.

They don't have the strength, they don't have the psyche for it. They get in anyway, because of leftist politicians and media. When they do worse than men, it is blamed on men - all that "oppression" and "discrimination," you know. Thanks.

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Nothing like a little WAR to make women BACK OFF from the MILITARY...

Sure some but not all same goes for men...I went active duty cause I figured either way I was going to Iraq might as well get it over with than wait to be deployed.

But wait - women want to fight too, right? Wrong. Like I said, I have yet to meet a single woman who joined up for the right reasons. (Oh, but I'm sure that all of the sudden, in this thread, we will find one. What a coincidence.) And look now, after the neocon invasion of Iraq: recruitment numbers fall for both men and women, yes, but much more for women. I wonder why?

Women don't join up in general...most women are not predisposed to the military...however a majority of female Marines are the ones who intiatited contact while the other services have to go extra lengths to get women...that's why recruiters get extra points for recruiting females because most girls don't think hiking in peanut butter mud, in the rain with an 80lb pack on your back and no showers for days sounds too attractive.

How many men join for the right reasons? What are the right reasons? I knew I wanted to serve ever since I was young. College was an afterthought and now while I am serving I almost have a degree and international experience...Ask many military members why they joined and they say college, didn't know what to do with my life, job security etc...not many join to serve their country but at least they are serving.

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There are some very sensible contributions in this thread. In particular the comments concerning the potential and inevitable issues - complications - that having women on the front will lead to. I think we all interpret the question as referring to fighting on the front, as opposed to support roles.

Signupforstuff commented "Studies have also shown that in the field, men will abandon mission objectives in order to protect the females. Of course they will, they are men, and it is their instinct to protect women - that's how we survive as a species. Yet another reason to keep the women far away from the front lines.".

I heartily agree. But for it to get to that stage means that the men in leadership of the country - and indeed men in general - are culpably guilty for having abandoned their natural role as protector of their wives and families by sending women to the front in the first place. Its tragic enough that men are sent to war to become canon fodder, but its the place of the menfolk to protect their women, not visa versa, and for a country to send its women to the front is despicable. Even where the womenfolk make noise over "equality" it is up to the men to show leadership, commonsense and love for their women by keeping them as far away from the carnage and unimagineable horrors of war as they are able. War is a "life and death" issue... not a time for making a point about equality.

That's not to say that women don't have an important role in war. Its true that had America not finally joined the fray when its own territory came under attack, Britain would have had a much tougher time defeating Hitler and the Axis. But without its womenfolk maintaining the flow of munitions, Britain would have gone down pretty early in the piece!

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For kevryl; (Signupforstuff commented "Studies have also shown that in the field, men will abandon mission objectives in order to protect the females. Of course they will, they are men, and it is their instinct to protect women - that's how we survive as a species. Yet another reason to keep the women far away from the front lines." I heartily agree.) I see your point. However, having been in combat and have spoken with many other combat vets, soldiers in combat have a tendency to protect one another anyway. A female would, of course, probably cause them to be a little over protective with her, which could also jeopardize the mission or the soldiers. The main concern seems to be when men and women continuously work closely together there will always be physical attraction, not to mention jelousy issues with spouses, girlfriends, boyfriends, etc. Female soldiers i've served with, and trained in OCS were very capable of performing any task they were assigned.

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Interesting to re-examine this post after the military has taken necessary steps to break down the gender barrier in the military.

"Toto, I've [got] a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore."

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