First, let me say that in regards to friendly-debate-(A): I'm well-versed in the art of screenwriting and one of the many things we learn about ending a film is that you have to have a payoff at the end of the movie that will please the audience, not just morally or ethically (i.e. "the right message at the end of the film",) but you must make the ending sensible and it has to coincide with the "setup". During the film, the "setup" regarding Louis' character has been that he is a man capable of deadly warfare and that he actually does care about his brother. The screenwriter/director and the editor placed enough clues (such as Louis sharpening his combat knife) to prepare you for the ending. If they had not, you might be surprised in a negative way. They prepare you for an ending that you feel is "not entirely expected, yet not unexpected either". As to the comment made about Louis maybe not caring about his brother Butch, it is clear that is not the case. If he didn't care about his brother, he wouldn't have worn his formal uniform (that could have EASILY been bought via mail-order form back in the 90's from an SoF magazine) for Butch's funeral. That was done out of respect and love.
So, I feel that ending the movie at the burial would have been anticlimactic and there would have been no epilogue, no payoff, nothing. The ending where Butch is avenged by his brother is more satisfying to the audience and it makes sense that he would do that.
I missed that setup. I never saw Louis sharpening his combat knife. There's a scene with him soldering a silicon board, a scene where he waves his knife around at some kids while dribbling about Sun Tzu and a scene where he emerges from the folliage carrying his modified assault rifle explaining, "It`s just a little something I`ve been working on. Can stop a tank at fourty yards." So that sets up a number of possible scenarios for the ending. If you take his quote literally you could think it was a pun and he intended to gun down Tank with the rifle. He could have been soldering a trigger device. At the end of the day 'Professional' would have been any deadly means that let him complete his mission and get away.
Sure the last scene looks and feels cool, hell it even has a cool line, but if it hadn`t been there in the first place would you really miss it?
I agree wearing his 'formal' uniform and crying at the funeral showed he cared, as did his reaction when Ruby told him he loved him. I was taking his feelings into account. He cared about Butch, but he hadn't forgiven him for playing hoodlum in his house and stealing from everyone to buy drugs. I came to the conclusion that someone so concerned with fortifying his room and patrolling his house with assault rifles and tasers wouldn't welcome a street war so close to his bed.
As far as friendly-debate-B is concerned: I think it's interesting that there is a debate on what method Louis' character "should" have used to murder Tank. Using a gun doesn't make sense for a "character" such as Louis. For one, killing with a gun doesn't require much skill. Two, it's impersonal. Three, it's not something a person who has literally "dreamed" of assassinating enemy targets would do. It's the exact opposite of the aforementioned reasons that he would have chosen the knife.
His "assassination" of Tank was conducted like a Special Ops mission, it was personal and it required skill, and therefore it fulfilled Louis' desires to both avenge his brother and to "engage the enemy as a skilled specialist" would.
Louis' character clearly did not want to communicate with Tank's character. He didn't speak to Tank's character at all. He spoke aloud after Tank was dead AND after he had symbolically placed the rat onto Tank's body.
As to the concerns that Louis could've/should've/would've shot him and made it look like a robbery gone wrong so as not to point suspicion at the Stein family. Gimme a break. Louis doesn't give a rat's ass (well, actually he did give a rat's ass to Tank, literally) about making it look like a robbery gone wrong. That would defeat the point of symbolically leaving the rat on the body. It was symbolic to him and he didn't care about anyone finding out anything. On top of that, Tank and his buddies (if he had any real buddies left) wouldn't know who killed Tank anyway, he had plenty of enemies to choose from and there's no way in hell that rat would have just sat on the body long enough for anyone to find there. Also, do you really think that Louis would mind a "war" with anyone that wished to wage one on him? Definitely not. He's insane.
I don`t buy that Louis doesn`t care about the consequences. His reluctance to welcome Butch back into the home he stole from isn`t just based on his own personal loss. He doesn't want his family hurt again, but there's also a hint of jealousy. He doesn`t like being treated like Butch`s younger brother, which he clearly is as soon as the favorite returns home from prison. He does get a bit whacked when he flips, like in the kitchen when he wants to order that stun gun. In the last scene there's no sign of that frustration. The revenge comes from the vestiges of his normal personality. That`s why I think, if you're going to include that scene at all, the special forces method is wrong.
And if your theory about him fulfilling his fantasies of being a G.I. Joe are correct there was a more suitable device suggested earlier in the story. The gun (I'm guessing close to the model issued in 'Nam) he`d been working on modifying for who knows how long was just as personal. He could have taken out the whole crew in the limo with that thing. Ambush, hit them quick and hard and there would be no one to retaliate.
So I don`t think it would have been an anticlimax if the movie had ended with the graveyard. For me the payoff you spoke of was Butch`s sacrifice. His attitude clearly changed after Ruby got the knife through his hand to full out self-destruction. He knew he was out of control and had to find an end before it took someone else down instead. It would have been a clean exit for the story. There were more L-Train precursors throughout the film than any that would indicate a man on the edge, grinding his dentures and polishing his knife. Let the L-Train carry Butch out of the story I say.
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unamerican_heckel
18 years ago
You know, I felt the same thing that they could have just stoped the movie after Butch's death, that is the payoff, the moral lesson ... Mickey Rourke dies in a lot of his movies (Rumblefish, Angel Heart (well, he goes to hell actually) and Johny Handsome) so maybe the director just took a different direction (or similar, if you think about it).
But this movie is like a hard shot, right from the scene where Flocko gets his eye shanked.
Anyway, I think that it would have been bigger 'payload' to have scene Louis use his modified gun on Tank (sober) and just blown a big ole hole through him, and then have the camera just catch Tanks death expression as Louis reveals himself... Fade to black.
-OR- maybe have Ruby drive into Tank (like he did before), now that would've been even more twisted.
-OR- if you want a kinda 'standard' - it could be between Paddy and Tank (like the shoot out they had in the restaraunt)
just a couple of possibilites
Amazing movie.
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twilght20027
18 years ago
Everyone who wrote here made some good points personally I think he looked out for his little bro even when butch and his homeboy were robbing the house and the cops were driving by here comes older bro to the rescue he kept the cops busy so his brother wouldn't get caught. I think he was doing the older bro thing and watching out for his siblings just cause someone is crazy doesn't mean they don't know what's up. He had his brother's back and I think that there isn't much more to it. I suppose they could have left it as Butch being dead end of story but I think a brothers revenge made the story all come together brang a more reality to the story cuz on the streets in real life it never would have ended without some sort of revenge. I think that was the greatest part of the movie.
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18 years ago
[deleted]
costass-3
14 years ago
Hi there.
*-=-=-Major Spoiler-=-=-=-*
I read almost all of the replays to this topic and really appreciate it all.
I watching this movie recently and in my opinion last scene is not good for me.
It's different from all the movie that was shown before. First of all, when or where you see Tank be alone & drunk like *beep* This is the first thing that look most unconvincingly. Then , like from nowhere older brother just find without any problem, most dangerous street gangster in the middle of night, second thing that is very unacceptable for me. Yes, I know that, Lewis follow Bullet at some parts in the movie, but I still cant accept that he will find and follow Tank so easy.
And at the very end, he just put the rat on the dead body of Tank, what's the point desecrate the dead guy or just for revenge.
Anyway , when I was younger I love this scene with all this revenge stuff out there and bla bla, but now I just see it with another point of view, and just didn't accept it.
All other parts of the movie is amazing.
For me the end could be great (like some one write) with Butch's tombstone, then fade to black.
Thanks for reading.
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