MovieChat Forums > Breaking the Waves (1996) Discussion > An Absolute Nihilistic Garbage

An Absolute Nihilistic Garbage

posted 17 years ago by inbar_sh
66 replies | jump to latest

I saw Two and a Half films of 'Von' Trier: 'Breaking the waves'' Dogville' and Most of 'Dancing in the dark' and I felt the same about them all. an Awful Moviemaking. It Combines Sick mind, Immature Characters, Rediculus Plots and above all, Preverted and Mean point of view about the world and the Human nature, Superficial and disrespectful attitude about Religion and Angloamerican culture ,Uglyness , cheap Photography and Production.
I would not bother to comment on those films, but The sad fact that Trier is so Highly appriciated and so much (Over) Rated I feel that I must put my Unpopular view on the table and say : This king is naked. There is absolutely nothing there.
I will try to make a short Comparison Between Trier and David Lynch Who is in my opinion, a Great ,Unic and Underrated filmmaker. some people found similarity between him and Von Trier. In Lynch films there are so many beautiful and pure things like a perfect Aesthetics, Sadness and yearning to a lost and innocent world. The Evil in Lynch films is always balanced with a Good and Humane behavior. The good is always within reach. Although There is some similarity between them, especially in repersenting Females as Tragic victims in most of Lynch and Trier films The difference in both Artistic and Moral point of views is Huge.

Inbar Sh,
Israel

[–] SlipGun 17 years ago

Lynch is hardly underrated.

[–] karaladh 11 years ago

Agreed. He has a pretty thick cult following and a lot of notoriety.

You're not a vegetarian, are you? I've never met a vegetarian I liked.

[–] pipp5 17 years ago

You missed the point completely. The film was an analogy of Christ's life.
Bess = Christ "All you need is love"
Exclusive Brethren = Pharisees
Sadistic sailors = Romans.
Bells in the sky = resurrection
miracle of Jan walking again.
... and much much more.

View it again - you'll see how clever it was.

[–] tep24 17 years ago

Yeah, like pipp5 sort of alludes to, you really have to see any Lars von Trier film as a fable, rather than take them literally, at face value.

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] HDcreepy 17 years ago

Not a good argument. Please try again.

[–] lathe-of-heaven 16 years ago

Heh heh... Absolutely!

ESPECIALLY for someone who is a Brian Eno fan as I am

ILOVEtrading films!I've got a HUGE..uh..collection!Please ask!

____L@th3

[–] munspel 14 years ago

I get so angry every time somebody says "The king is naked" and crap like that.
I really liked this film and it spoke to me on many levels.
It is OK for you to not like it but don't make it sound like you have found an objective truth about a piece of art!

[–] amnesiac-kid 10 years ago

are you a christian d-bag?

[–] tommyuk 17 years ago

I watched this for the first time yesterday and I kind of gathered that it had deeper religous undertones.Each chapter starts with a panoramic landscape( Prob Matte Painting special effect) that looks like a stained glass chuch window.I thought it might have had something to do with the 12 Stations of the cross.
I still didn't like the story all that much though.Lars Von Triers has a very unusual directing style which I don't quite like all that much.I didn't like the character Bess all that much.I didn't like the way she was just self destructive and going nowhere.It was a waste of time watching it.I thought Polanski's Bitter Moon was a superior film.I would have prefered if Bess's character had of become more empowered in the wake of her husbands paralysis like Mimi did in Bitter Moon.I thought that was a much more interesting dynamic.Although having said that Bitter Moon was a thriller , this film was more of a drama.

[–] przgzr 16 years ago

Mimi and Bess can hardly come from more different environment, culture, tradition. Just see few details from 'Waves': women are not allowed to speak in church, they are even not allowed to go to funeral. Obedience is the most appreciated characteristic of these women. All they live for is to serve God and husband. So all that Bess does is following these rules. A simple psychic structure as she is can easily be influenced, and when she is still not certain if she should obey Jan's orders, she understands some Dodo's, mother's and doctor's suggestions as not only approval but order to do it. And when this seems to be against her religion, she creates a communication with God. It reminds on split personalities what is again not accidental: simple structure as she is, maybe a bit retarded, is not far from child mental status, and children in traumas and situations too hard to handle can form split personalities for their own protection.

[–] poetcomic1 13 years ago

12? Stations? Of the Cross? More like 12 stopped up toilets.

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] garsed22 16 years ago

I'll admit I didn't see these analogies to Christ's life until my partner pointed out the scene where Bess is pushing her bike up the hill and the village children were throwing stones at her - like Jesus carrying his cross. Very clever.

Do people have any theories on the movie's title?

[–] markcody 16 years ago

How about a ***SPOILER ALERT*** next time friend!

[–] Cirkulis 12 years ago

Oh, I see.
So Bess is Jesus who, in order to heal Jan, has to *beep* Romans and say "I touch your prick" instead of "get up and walk". And that is the power of love.
Well, couldn't agree more - very clever indeed.. to be able to fool so many religious fanatics into believing that this despicable, shabby and abominable movie is some kind of masterpiece.

[–] LisaSA_456 12 years ago

Oh, I see.
So Bess is Jesus who, in order to heal Jan, has to *beep* Romans and say "I touch your prick" instead of "get up and walk". And that is the power of love.
Well, couldn't agree more - very clever indeed.. to be able to fool so many religious fanatics into believing that this despicable, shabby and abominable movie is some kind of masterpiece.

However one interprets the film, if you read the board, you'd see that religious fanatics actually hate this movie.

Purgatory...You weren't really s--t, but you weren't all that great either. Like Tottenham.

[–] KennethWasHere 10 years ago

to be able to fool so many religious fanatics into believing that this despicable, shabby and abominable movie is some kind of masterpiece

Because a film that literally equates organized religion with mental illness and portrays the majority of its religious characters as dogmatic, chauvinistic patriarchs is probably going to be a huge hit amongst the faithful crowd.

The bitter thinkers buy their tickets to go find God like a piggy in a fair

[–] the_alchemist79 17 years ago

Dear Inbar Sh,

With all due respect, firstly I have to say that your randomly assigned capital letters distract the reader from whatever you are trying to say...

Personally, whilst I am somewhat ambivalent about Von Trier's and his Dogma chums' films, I found Bess in 'Breaking the Waves' a deeply touching character, and I greatly admired Emily Watson's acting. To say the film is nihilistic garbage without merit is a bit harsh I think.

As for David Lynch, "a Great ,Unic and Underrated filmmaker" in your opinion, I have always had a nagging feeling that he creates mind-boggling storylines just for the sake of toying with his audience. He does not seem to allow his characters to display any kind of emotion that a normal person like me could identify with (see Mulholland Drive, a film that left me intrigued yet cold).

But that's just my opinion...

Yours,

The Alchemist

[–] igorincolour 17 years ago

I would just like to point out that what you said about Lynch toying with the audience is very very wrong. The films do make sense and there definately is no purposeful alienation at all. I think being able to identify with them depends solely on the experience the viewer has had. I personally identify with them probably more than any other films. I can assure you that sometime in the future you will be able to upon revisiting them.

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] veerybird 17 years ago

I agree with the Alchemist that Emily Watson's portayal of Bess can deeply touch. And I will add that the Bess character runs very deeply for me. Remember when her god told her that Mary Magdelaine was among his most beloved?

On the surface, Breaking the Waves can be a deeply depressing film. Women who sacrifice too much for love, like Dancer in the Dark's Selma character, are often depressing, aren't they? But let's take a look at why they make us so sad. It isn't their martyrdom to make us feel guilty or sorry for them...it is that we must be moved to profound sadness before we can know the true joy of love. I venture to believe that very many people have been profoundly moved by the Bess character for the better. I suspect that the Selma character was contrived to have the same effect, but there was nothing positive, such as the church bells ringing in heaven, to counterbalance her tragic end.

And I would like to address The Alchemist's comments about the works of Lynch. I too have often been suspicious that Lynch indulges too much in twistedness, but I saw the twistedness work to a unique kind of perfection in his Wild at Heart. Maybe the crazy wild perverse sweetness that made Wild at Heart a favorite among many is that Lynch kept trying to achieve it and finally did. For me, Mulholland Drive pretty much bombed in comparison.

Nihilistic garbage? A life that is worth living does not have to be a long one. We can believe that hope is always rewarded. One does not have to take Bess's death as tragic because she loved so fully all her short life.

[–] mad_men 14 years ago

You are wrong in believing there was nothing positive at the end of Dancer In The Dark to counterbalance the tragic ending. If you think about it, the Selma character wins in the end, she gets her way, her son gets operated and the last song (in the credits, wich is very interesting btw) talks about her ascension to heaven. And the message that is displayed on the screen, is there to tell us, IMO that if we follow our hearts, no matter what happens to us, even a horrible ending, we can still win, because even if people or society or our community judge us unfairly, they don't know us and the positive effect we have had on other people.

The same thing happens in this movie. Maybe heaven isn't a real place, but the hearts we touched with our love is true heaven, and no one who choses to judge us can take that away from us...

Also I think, these characters that are too trustful, or too emotional or too stupid or mentally ill in the eyes of uptight self-rightneous biggots and all that, maybe they have a better understanding of what life is about, simply because they just listen to their hearts and nothing else..

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] pammauriks 16 years ago

I couldn't agree more. David Lynch is actually overrated

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] chandler-47 17 years ago

"disrespectful attitude about Religion and Angloamerican culture"

In which way is he disrepectful towards angloamerican culture? Don't see it.

--------------------------
They don't give you the leads, they don't give you the support, they don't give you dick. (Dave Moss)

[–] giulia-snrgav 17 years ago

Dear Inbar Sh,
first of all in order to judge Von trier you should watch a bit more than 2 and 1/2 of his films. then you should read something about him in order to understand what lies beneath what you call "cheap Photography and Production". Then i don't really find any point in comparing Lynch and Trier being they make film for different reasons and they come from different backgrounds. It's pretty much like comparing Picasso and Christo.. but that's my opinion

[–] plugged1967 17 years ago

sorry inbar sh, but i think you're way off the mark here (although perfectly entitled to your opinion) i came to Breaking the waves from a recomendation by my fiancee, she saw it one night when i was out working, when i saw her the next day she told tale of the greatest film she'd ever seen! may not sound strange to film fans but to me,well i was amazed. This is a woman who i can't get to sit and concentrate throughout any movie, even a bog standard 1 hour thirty hollywood chic flick, well i was flabergasted (and just had to see this movie), got straight online found out what it was, ordered it, and when it came she watched the whole thing again with me!!, unreal, i mean, you talk about ridiculous plots regarding 'von trier' ((i hope you get the irony in this next bit!))well to me this recomendation from my dearly beloved was more bizare than anything David Lynch could have dreamt up in a million years, even more unexplainable than 'Mulholland Drive' (which i absolutely loved by the way). Anyway while we're on about mulholland drive, i'm yet to hear anyone (academics included) give a hand on heart 'i know what this movie is about, and i fully understand it' Ebert included (even after his week long Boulder seminar on the film he says he was even more perplexed than when he began), not that he's god or anything, but he does know a few things about film cmon.
Anyway after i saw Breaking the waves i thought it was an extremely emotional story, not disrespectfull toward religion but about a major struggle with faith in the face of love, and the fact that it was filmed in the style it was added to the emotional impact of the overall piece, it was gritty and realistic and i'm sure that was how it was intended to be, Mulholland drive on the other hand is visually impressive and helps convey the dreamlike (fantasy) mood that was intended. what can i say apart from 'thankfully' we have two individuals from different cultures who like to make movies and tell stories in their own unique styles. p,s if anyone read all of that you're as mad as both directors. thanks.

[–] giulia-snrgav 17 years ago

...i just did so i suppose i might be mad enough...hehe well said anyways

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]