MovieChat Forums > Beautiful Girls (1996) Discussion > 13-year-old girls don't talk that way

13-year-old girls don't talk that way

posted 10 years ago by lanis_cupus
55 replies | jump to latest

"So now I'm Marty. Just Marty. A girl named Marty. It is the bane of my existence."

Yeah, no.

The writer must have been very proud of this bit. If only he/she'd found an appropriate character for it. To have this come out of the mouth of a 13-yr old is to insult the intelligence of pretty much anyone over 13.

I would have appreciated the story more if Marty had turned out to be a construct of Willy's imagination. If the brother had said, "Nobody's moved in next door that I know of." This would have meshed with the fact that Marty has no parents and seems to just show up on the scene at every opportune moment. Yeah, it would have been a little hokey, but at least it would have worked.

Either way, she's not real. And I say this having liked the movie.

Note: Marty's even less real than Portman's Mathilda in The Professional. Mathilda, while equally precocious, was credible because she'd gone through severe trauma at a young age which caused her to take on certain adult characteristics. At the same time, she was revealed to be still a child in significant ways. Marty is straight up Tinker Bell.

That's the most you'll ever get out of me Wordman. Ever. -Eddie Wilson

[–] Naughty-God 10 years ago

She's rare and she's precocious for her age, yes, but that doesn't translate as unrealistic to me as a viewer. Nothing that came out of her mouth offended or insulted me as an adult so I think your reaction speaks more to your own issues. Young teens who are beyond their years in terms of personality and perception are a common theme found in literature and film and I think the Marty character somewhat plays off of those inspirations

[–] lanis_cupus 10 years ago

Yes, I am speaking from my own perspective, and from my perspective the Marty character isn't credible. As a point of reference, I offered an example of a young, precocious character who *does* seem credible.

As a writer, rather than presenting a dubious character as someone who's "beyond their years", one has the option to simply make the character older. This goes for literature as well as film.

That's the most you'll ever get out of me Wordman. Ever. -Eddie Wilson

[–] Naughty-God 10 years ago

If they made her older to fit your perspective then they'd have to change her character entirely. The age difference is a key aspect to the a budding romance that will never be. Both of them know that and it is that which makes their short friendship bittersweet and even a little pathetic.

[–] lanis_cupus 10 years ago

Not really, they could have made her 16-17 and it would have worked just as well since that is also a period of high transition in life. I'm not saying the movie would have been better, just that the character would have been more believable.

They actually made Marty seem like she was mature enough for an adult relationship, which is where things get sketchy.

That's the most you'll ever get out of me Wordman. Ever. -Eddie Wilson

[–] Naughty-God 10 years ago

Um, it's supposed to be sketchy that Marty is of interest to Willie whose twice her age. It sounds like you're problem lies mainly with your distaste of this plot line due to Marty's age. Fair enough, but your disapproval doesn't really mean that it's not believable that she seems more mature for her age, and it didn't bother me that she was written and performed this way for the film.

[–] lanis_cupus 9 years ago

But why should it be sketchy if Marty really IS mature enough for an adult relationship?

Do we ever see any indication that she's not?

[–] amazingm08 10 years ago

it seems pretty real that a 10 year old who can exceed limitations of that age to also believe their superior

[–] VoltaCabra 10 years ago

I find her believable. She's precocious, mildly obnoxious, and full of herself. That's quite common, actually, for thirteen year old children.

[–] isundling 10 years ago

We don't know her story....she us probably an only child...she is always alone..she was very believable to me.

[–] amazingm08 10 years ago

Not to mention with the way she talks it would probably scare off her peers

[–] Rubygirl214 10 years ago

My niece was exactly like Marty at 13....wise beyond her years, incredible vocabulary and very introspective. It's absolutely plausible.

[–] lanis_cupus 10 years ago

I will put it another way, then. Writers and directors shouldn't portray young characters in this kind of way. For one thing it might make other kids that age self-conscious. And even worse *MUCH WORSE* it gives the impression that someone can be an adult at age 13, which opens the way for all kinds of social issues.

It would take so little to correct the problem. One scene where her mom or dad (if she had a mom or dad) comes out of the house to scold her about not doing her homework, or one moment where she says something obviously immature regarding sex or some other adult matter.

All the other female characters were flawed and/or had serious baggage. Think about that.

That's the most you'll ever get out of me Wordman. Ever. -Eddie Wilson

[–] Naughty-God 10 years ago

As I said in another reply above. You're trying to imprint your disapproval of the Marty's characterization as some sort of moral failing due to the age difference between her and Willy. The film doesn't give them a payoff in any shape of form, no romance, not even a parting kiss at the end. Deal with it.

[–] TxMike 9 years ago

" Writers and directors shouldn't portray young characters in this kind of way. For one thing it might make other kids that age self-conscious "

This isn't a movie for kids, it is for adults. I understand that it struck false to you, fine, but don't try to extrapolate your feelings across the broader viewing audience. Her character is quite appropriate for the story and her age was an appropriate choice. This is fiction and, in case it hasn't yet occurred to you, fictional characters are most commonly written and portrayed as exaggerations, as are essentially all the characters in this movie.

..*.. TxMike ..*..
Make a choice, to take a chance, to make a difference.

[–] lanis_cupus 9 years ago

No respectable writer creates an "exaggerated" character in a story with a human premise. The other characters in the film seem (impressively) real to me which makes Portman's character stand out even more. There's nothing appropriate about her--she doesn't even have parents. It would have been more credible if they'd had a spaceship land and a cute young alien girl walks out and starts speaking English.

Is this to be an empathy test?

[–] TxMike 9 years ago

You just won't let this go ... even now that you know you are dead wrong!

..*.. TxMike ..*..
Make a choice, to take a chance, to make a difference.

[–] cjbarrett 8 years ago

Hmmmm...
I seen to remember a character named Juliet created by a fairly respectable writer named Shakespeare.
Juliet also 13 years old.

[–] lanis_cupus 8 years ago

Yes, but Juliet is exposed as a precocious *child* by the 3rd act. Marty's not. That's the whole point.

Is this to be an empathy test?

[–] cjbarrett 8 years ago

Yeah, not sure what you mean by "exposed"?
Still think you have a personal bias here.

[–] lanis_cupus 8 years ago

It means that one can only put on an act so long before the truth is revealed.

Is this to be an empathy test?

[–] lanis_cupus 9 years ago

I let it go, but suddenly someone has arrived who seems to share my perspective. So I must now question whether I am in fact "dead wrong."

Maybe 13-yr old girls really don't talk that way? Just something to think about.

Is this to be an empathy test?

[–] buckfandan 9 years ago

The way she talked reminded me of lolita.

[–] tallkennj 9 years ago

which is why Natalie Portman struggled so much with her dialog. I still think she was right for the part and played it great. it's just that the dialog, as you point out, was awful. It was an old dude writer trying to think like a smart, witty 13-year-old.... and failing.

[–] JFMJJ88 8 years ago

It was an old dude writer trying to think like a smart, witty 13-year-old.... and failing.

So I take that you know or have known a great many smart, witty 13 year old girls who don't talk like Marty? If not, how do you know that the writer failed?

[–] mfitzgerald03 9 years ago

I agree with you that Natalie spoke way beyond her years as a 13 year old but sometimes you have to suspend disbelief and just go with it. It didn't get in the way of me enjoying the movie.

[–] lanis_cupus 9 years ago

I enjoyed it too the first time, but then my analytical mind kicked in and I started to question things.

Children are the most vulnerable members of society so I'm very sensitive about how they're portrayed in film/media/etc. Making children too mature for their years always sends a bad message. But again, there are exceptions. In The Professional, Portman was shown to be quite mature but that was in part because of all she'd gone through in her family life (note that she actually had a family in that one). And then at the end, we see that she's not as mature as she'd been pretending to be. So it all added up there.

In short, since Beautiful Girls doesn't contain any fantasy elements, I expect the characters to be credible and I think the writers could have achieved this without detracting from the story.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] lanis_cupus 9 years ago

If there ARE children out there like this, it's not because they are "old souls." It's because they are being pushed to grow up faster and faster, which indicates that society is placing less and less of a value on children. But I guess it's not the worst of crises as they all go back to being kids in their 20s these days.

Anyone who thinks they know who they are at 13 is in for a lifetime of identity problems.

Is this to be an empathy test?

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] lanis_cupus 9 years ago

Thanks, you might be an exception.

Which is good.