Superman was way too mortal.


He was vulnerable to EVERYTHING! And he had to wear a frickin space suit? wtf?

"I just want my phone call"- The Joker
Dark Knight #1 on IMDB, get over it

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Where have you been? That's how he was in the mid 80s to late 90s. The show was in keeping with a more vulnerable Superman.

Always-Severus Snape

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Oh ok. I think I get it now. But still, SUPERMAN needs a space suit to go into space?

"I just want my phone call"- The Joker
Dark Knight #1 on IMDB, get over it

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Not necessarily a suit, but definitely oxygen. We've seen in several episodes of Superman and Justice League that he can survive in space, but he will still eventually need to breathe.

Mostly, it was probably just done to sell a few extra toys. You know, Spacesuit Superman or Underwater Superman. That type of thing.

Always-Severus Snape

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I did feel he was a bit too vunerable but I would rather see a superhero that is very vunerable then too invunerable like in Superman Returns.

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The producers felt that making Superman really really powerful would make him less interesting because then less stuff would be dangerous for him. They amped up his power level later in JLU.

Supermodels...spoiled stupid little stick figures mit poofy lips who sink only about zemselves.

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I prefer a hero with some vulnerability. It forces him to be more creative.


Half Man/Half Amazing

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It's not about how many times he gets hit, it's about how many times he gets back up again.

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Yoo, Adriane!

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I like what they did with Superman. He still is the most powerful of all the heroes but they made him struggle a bit and that made him seem a bit more human. That's what they did in the comics because he was becomming way too powerful. Basically this show closely follows post-crisis continuity (No Superboy, Luthor a Businessman, Batman comes before Superman and their different methods/opinions..etc) but with some pre-crisis elements thrown in there. And if they didn't 'decrease' his power, each episode would be over in about 7 minutes.

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"Batman comes before Superman"

Post-Crisis, I believe that Superman and Batman are supposed to have made their first appearances at around the same time.

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I have this comic The Man of Steel #3 and it's kind of implied, just like in the show, Batman appeared first.

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I'd have preferred him to be a better fighter in this show. I understand his enemies can kick ass but you tend to hear Superman grunt in pain a bit too often. Character-wise, he was too stiff. I loved how Reeve's Superman was as nice as he could be and positive, but when it came down to business, no *beep* Superman in this show was kind of like a plank.

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I understand that they had to make him less vulnerable, but there was no need to make him into a puppy. I mean come on (mostly 90% of what was fired at him HURT him)....The fact of the matter remains that Superman is not human. Why do you guys think they felt it necessary to amp his powers in JLU? Because after a while, the writers must have realized they went a bit too far.

Superman needing a space suit, a diving suit...come on.

I think the writers lacked creativity in making him not silver age level, but at least sufficient (current modern level) enough to feel that you are actually watching/reading SUPERMAN. You can tell by this that I did not care much for the Byrne's revamp. Only DC writers, for some reason, cannot balance (more extreme to the left side, or more extreme to the right).

I did not care much for the artwork either. At least the upcoming "Superman/Batman: Public Enemies" looks great compared to it.

"RESPECTING ONE'S OPINION IS THE PINNACLE OF MATURITY"

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So he's a puppy because getting shot with a rocket hurts him? How many puppies do you know that can stand that?

For love denied blights the soul we owe to God.

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He's gone toe-to-toe with Doomsday and Darkseid. An itty bitty rocket? Riight.

Supermodels...spoiled stupid little stick figures mit poofy lips who sink only about zemselves.

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Yep, and Doomsday and Darkseid both hurt him. He's not invulnerable to everything.

For love denied blights the soul we owe to God.

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Superman's strength & stamina will probably always be inconsistent no matter who's handling him. Just look at the Chris Reeve movies - in #1 he was strong enough to restore the fault line & in #4 he actually moved the moon(!), yet in #2 he was floored by a bus which required a few minutes for him to get back up & in #3 he was eaten by a giant computer.

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You guys,taking a few hits is one thing but getting knocked around like a @#@$#@ to often is another.

I'm gonna die unless you kill me!

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That was the whole point of powering him down. So they could add some drama and action.

In Punk we trust.

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[deleted]

I think the issue was that sometimes he didn't seem like Superman. I can dig him not instantly decimating everything that comes in his way. But, it was like every episode the enemy would somehow just have some gun that could knock Superman back.

There were also occasions where it seemed his various powers weren't really being utilized; his super-speed mainly. Any time his speed could actually be useful suddenly he doesn't have it! He flies at a snail's pace or can only run normal human speeds. But, oh, now the danger's gone he can zoom behind Lois Lane to catch her or something.

I also didn't like how, apparently, every alien somehow has Superman levels of strength like its not even something special. It kills the "Super" thing.

Most of the drama should be from whether Superman can save the supporting cast or not. That's why Superman has the best supporting cast in all of superherodom: so they can have all kinds of craziness trying to kill them. Will Superman get there in time? How can Superman possibly stop the missile from blowing up the orphanage, keep the villain from escaping, and catch Lois Lane all at the same time? Only occasionally should there be a villain who can stand toe-to-toe with Superman, rather than just any joe schmoe with a laser pistol to exosuit or something.

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Maybe because I have watched too much Smallville, but I don't think this Superman is that "weak" or vulnerable. I personally did not like the spacesuit and the diving suit, but I understand why they decided to go that route and I respect them for going there.

Lois Lane=Leia Lane

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I agree. It seemed no matter what story they were doing and no matter what the setting, there was always a villain there who could go toe-to-toe with Supes like it ain't no thang. The showrunners said they were desperate to avoid relying on kryptonite every week so tried to create threats in other ways, but I think they went a little too far and created a situation where not only is Superman a little bit of a pansy but almost every villain ends up just having a prolonged fistfight with him. For Christ's sake, in one episode we're expected to believe that a friggin' robot kangaroo is a serious threat!

I think it says a LOT that Superman's most popular villains are brooding puppet masters like Luthor, Brainiac and Darkseid, while characters who go up to Superman and start punching him in the face (Metallo, Parasite and so on) are B-list at best. The reason is obviously that Luthor et al can challenge Superman in ways beyond the physical, and that's what makes Superman stories interesting. I like a lot of the fighting plots, but with a character like Superman you can't do them every week; it just becomes cheap.

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Yes I a gree, he's way to weak in this series.

Anytime a writer takes on a legendary character.. and by now Superman is indeed, a modern legend, you are agree to taking on certain constraints.

For example, you don't write a modern Sherlock Holmes story where Holmes is a bumbling fool or a Robin Hood story where Robin robs from the poor and gives to the rich. Unless you are intending to write a satire, which Superman is clearly not.

He's not a flying version of Spiderman. He's basically a super hero's Superhero.

It's a shame that in a cartoon which basically allows special effects to cost really little to no more than regular scenes, Superman is less powerful than his live action counterparts.

There are plenty of things that can challenge a Silver age Superman

a) Kryptonite (multiple colors)
b) Villains with similar powers - Bizarro, Zod etc.
c) "the Red Sun" environment
D) Magic
E) Some scientific discoveries (Virus X) as shown in the comics - but used sparingly.
F) The classic "I need to be in 2 places at the same time" problem.

De-powering Superman creates as many problems as it solves. For example, why should villains even bother with Kryptonite? Just a throw a big enough bomb at him and he's dead anyways.

Superman deserves better.

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Because a big enough bomb is as hard to get a hold of as a chunk of kryptonite. He withstood the equivalent of a nuclear blast. How much bigger of a bomb would the bad guy's have?

Straightedge means I'm better than you.

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When did he get hit with a nuclear blast in this particular series?

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Justice League. Different series, same continuity.

Straightedge means I'm better than you.

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SUPERMAN GETS BEAT UP A LOT,LOL!!! BATMAN DOESN'T HAVE SUPER POWERS AND HE STILL DOESN'T GET BEAT UP ANYWHERE NEAR AS MUCH AS SUPERMAN!!!

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[deleted]

Batman threw Superman across the room in "Worlds Finest".

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Superman's invulnerability is a common criticism.

I'm glad that the writers took it down a notch.

To call for hands of above
To lean on
Wouldn't be good enough
For me, no...

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Superman's invulnerability is a common criticism.

I'm glad that the writers took it down a notch.


His powers had already been taken down a notch in John Byrne's run in the comics, then STAS came along and took it down much further, further than necessary IMO.

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Nah. John Byrne's version worked well for the comics, but not for a series.

Straightedge means I'm better than you.

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Why wouldn't it work in an animated series?

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You know this turned into an on again/off again argument between me and a friend for years. At this point she's genuinely convinced that Bruce Timm "ruined Superman for a generation" with both this & Justice League because of the inconsistent power levels issue. The thing is Superman's power levels have always been inconsistent across multiple incarnations, and when I pointed out that the old Max Fleischer cartoons (which are awesome) and the old Super-Friends cartoons (which are horribly lame) had the exact same problems she was all like "Nu-uh, I'm not gonna criticize those because they were made in a different time" which I personally think is an extremely flimsy reason not to criticize those earlier versions, but in the case of Super-Friends she probably has nostalgia issues (personally I hate Super-Friends and everything it represents but that's another story); I mean c'mon, it's one thing to like Super-Friends despite how bad it is but saying its flaws don't count isn't fair. Hell, by her logic pretty much every incarnation of Superman "ruined the character for a generation" since no one's ever done a particularly good job of keeping his power levels consistent.

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'Superman was way too mortal.' Superman was definitely de-powered a great deal, basically his power scale was original 1938 level but with all 1990's powers.

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Perhaps his power levels were scaled back a little too much, but it's preferable to pre-Crisis "move planets and fly to other galaxies in seconds" power levels.

I'm Heather Langenkamp's husband in another universe.

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Sure.

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he is still moving planets isn't he? i saw a recent comic in which he was sun deprived and benching the weight of the earth for 5 straight days...

Look inside yourself and understand the universe

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