morgan and wong - Millennium (1996) Discussion

[–] SilentDues 14 years ago

Personally, I feel they added a spectacular extra depth. The first season kinda seemed awkwardly caught between generic "police investigation dramas" that nearly outrun reality shows these days and some serialized story telling. Then with Season 2, Millennium becomes roughly 75% serialized story, giving us so much more mythology and revelations about this show's namesake Group, conflict between Frank and the Group, personal conflict that gave an engaging subplot arc between Frank and Catherine through the whole season, a couple interestingly hilarious stand-alone comedies, and some key eps that led to IMO an epic two-part finale. In theend, I think Morgan andWong get much more flak than they deserved, all because they veered the show into a different direction than its creator whom wasn't even showing real interest.

Any Buffyverse comic that's post-"Not Fade Away" is non-canon, my PoV says. Denny Crane!

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[–] sisterdebmac 14 years ago

SEASON THREE ruined the show. Period.

I'm a HUGE fan of Morgan & Wong. I love their work on The X Files, and S2 of Millennium is the only one I will ever own. I have the box set of Space: Above & Beyond too. Love it! I also really dug their remake of Willard with Crispin Glover. It was absolutely insane.

After one time through it, I've never had a desire to see Millennium S1 again and I wouldn't take S3 if you gave it to me for free.
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[–] DingusStudley 14 years ago

Yeah season 3 did far worse then season 2 did. I can understand how someone could dislike the direction of season 2, but season 3 made things even more screwy and bizarre and conspiracy laden. I guess if your ONLY dislike of season 2 was the religious stuff, then season 3 prob was a massive improvement. Otherwise though, yeesh, season 3 was just weird. It all still ended awesomely of course, season 3 got over its shaky start and turned into a great season.

They definitely didn't spoil the show.

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[–] waspfan33 14 years ago

IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT YOU THINK...

season 3 was good.i call it the manchurian candidate season.the whole idea of creating killers from people who have potential,or the easiest ones to turn,was just creepy.ill always remember"oh i know,i know everything now.why ed cuffle did what he did.why he drilled holes in peoples heads.why me,why did they choose me.i guess i always had it in me didnt i?" drillllllllllllllll.makes me wonder if and how long thats been going on,and how easy it is to make someone a killer.

spectre can

suck it.

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[–] mwhite182 14 years ago

I just recently got the box set of the entire series and have only watched a few episodes so far. I watched the series during it's original run in the 90's but don't remember much of the over-all story arc. I do remember thinking the 1st season was the best because it was much bleaker and darker than it later became. I also remember thinking during S2 that it was becoming more like The X-Files with it's bizzare conspiracies. I don't remember any of S3. I can't wait to rewatch the series because I always did really like it.

I do remember my least favorite episode was from the 2nd season and was all about a demon and his personal problems. I always thought it was the dumbest night of television I ever watched.

I demand episode 201 of South Park be uncensored.

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[–] brodiebruce_405 10 years ago

"the whole idea of creating killers from people who have potential,or the easiest ones to turn,was just creepy.ill always remember"oh i know,i know everything now.why ed cuffle did what he did.why he drilled holes in peoples heads.why me,why did they choose me.i guess i always had it in me didnt i?""

That's Season 2!

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[–] CasseroleWorshipper 11 years ago

Willard is such a good film, really overlooked. Crispin Glover is a revelation in it.
I don't mean to impose, but I am the Ocean.

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[–] zerobeat 14 years ago

Morgan and Wong's 2nd season is easily my favourite. I just love most things they do. Think Different?

Season 1 was also excellent. I disliked the vast majority of Season 3.

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[–] bsthorrortownusa-346-913090 11 years ago

Repost: Chris Carter never meant for the show to turn out the way it did.. It was pretty much based on the movie 'Seven' with a subplot of pending doom "the return of the Millennium".. The Millennium group were the good guys, based on an actual investigation firm "The Academy Group".. Morgan and Wong took over season 2 of the show, Carter was busy with The X-Files movie.. Morgan and Wong tunred the Millennium group into an evil cult..

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[–] ravenking81 11 years ago

Morgan and Wong tunred the Millennium group into an evil cult..

No, they didn't. It was far more ambivalent than that. The group was neither clearly good nor clearly evil. They had their own agenda, yes, but their morality was rather complex. What Wong and Morgan hinted at was, that sometimes you have to do evil things to avoid greater evil from happening. Ironically it was only in S3 when Carter returned that the group became one-dimensionally evil.

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[–] bsthorrortownusa-346-913090 11 years ago

Season 2 starts off with Frank searching for catherine, the millennium group pops up out of nowhere.. Frank learns the group has known all along who the guy was.. Sending him the photos, they never bothered to tell him.. Season 1, ep 2 - Mike tells Frank he could not turned up any evidence, doesn't have a clue who is responsible for the pic's.. Now clearly Mike is a high ranking member of the group.. So either he was bsing Frank or the group was keeping him out of the loop.. Now in season 2 the group has a much more secretive attitude "cult like" more focus on controlling the world and now has the ability to predict earthquakes and other disasters.. Evil Cult..

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[–] DingusStudley 11 years ago

Things were left open in season 2. The group def appeared creepily shady, but there was plenty of directions left on where things could have gone. They most definitely did not make the group outright evil. It was season 3 that decided, right from the getgo, with no more buildup or suspense or mystery, to make the group all out, no bones about it, forget about the mystique and secrets, 100% pure evil. Very lame direction to start out season 3.

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[–] TheProdigalJerry_Returns 11 years ago

If Chris Carter was so concerned about the show, then why did he only contribute a grand total of six episodes (out of 67) and leave the show to focus on other stuff after Season 1?

Knowledge is limited; imagination encircles the world.

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[–] ghostdog2041 11 years ago

I love season two. It is one part season one, and one part a kind of Hellboy style saga. Demons hanging out, searching for the crucifix, etc.
Coming Soon... The December Man
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[–] pupenflagenhagen 11 years ago

I agree that it was the best part of the series. Season 2 was amazing.

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[–] metaspheres 8 years ago

Considering how fanatical braindead Morgan & Wong fanboys are (as fanboys in general are), you risk being attacked, vilified and spat on by these zealous mental defectives for even remotely suggesting their idols could possibly do any wrong. Morgan & Wong fans are about as rational and intelligent as your average member of the Westboro Baptist Church. A long time ago I would've thought such a comparison to be insanely absurd, but after having personally interacted with the Morgan brothers and some of their cult followers, I can totally understand why so many people in Hollywood dread and loathe having to work with these pseudo-religious weirdos. Wong isn't anywhere near as weird as the porn addict Morgan brothers, I'll give him that much.

I do find it interesting that Duchovny was willing to work with the Morgan brothers and Wong again considering the fact that they were not only aware of his sex addiction when they first began working together during the first season of The X-Files, but that they actually played a significant part in enabling his addiction and making it even worse by turning the Fox Mulder character into a sexually repressed porn fiend and inserting numerous in-jokes that only porn addicts would recognize, even going so far as to have a porn superstar make a guest appearance in the second season episode, "Blood."

Morgan & Wong fanboys absolutely adored and relished the constant porn references and encouraged them, but while they were all kissing each others asses about such schoolboy immaturity, in his private life Duchovny was descending into the worst kind of hell that ultimately cost him his marriage, even after going public about his addiction, which he is still struggling with. Sex addiction, especially when an obsession with porn is involved, is the most emotionally and psychologically destructive addiction, and the most difficult one to overcome, far more so than even heroin addiction.

But I digress. Fact is, Morgan & Wong are all about snark, like the hipster dufuses that love and worship them. Morgan & Wong fanboys are the kind of idiots who compulsively use and abuse outdated net jargon like "lol", "lmao", "rofl", "omg", etc etc ad nauseum. Any person with half a brain understands that anyone who uses lingo like "lol" is an absolute moron. Mind you, it's a great way of separating the wheat from the chaff, and in a similar fashion, one can deduce the intelligence quotient of a person by contrasting their reactions to seasons one and two of Millennium.

It's like this, those who claim the second season is absolutely and without question superior to the first are the very epitome of mental defectiveness, to the point that their brains are even more corroded and fried than your average toothless methamphetamine junkie. And as with any member of the "Faces of Meth" crowd, they are so hopelessly stupid and mentally handicapped that it well behooves you to avoid any manner of discussion or debate with such riffraff at any and all costs.

It goes without saying, anyone who does understand the first season to be more rationally aesthetic and narratively coherent than the second is, without any question, at the very least a normal and fully sane human being.

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[–] balthazar_bee 8 years ago

It's probably misguided to reply to this post, which is littered with gussied-up snark and strange allusions to the personal lives of people who are (presumably) strangers to you.

But about this:

It's like this, those who claim the second season is absolutely and without question superior to the first are the very epitome of mental defectiveness, to the point that their brains are even more corroded and fried than your average toothless methamphetamine junkie. And as with any member of the "Faces of Meth" crowd, they are so hopelessly stupid and mentally handicapped that it well behooves you to avoid any manner of discussion or debate with such riffraff at any and all costs.

It goes without saying, anyone who does understand the first season to be more rationally aesthetic and narratively coherent than the second is, without any question, at the very least a normal and fully sane human being.

You accuse these "Morgan and Wong fanboys" (which is a variety of fanboy I'm not familiar with, and may indeed exist only in your mind) of being "zealous" cultists who have some kind of fixation on the work the pair produces and will defend it at all costs.

Frankly, your post is one of the most zealous and strident things I've ever read. It's very nearly libelous, and for some reason tries to paint David Duchovny's sex addiction as being collateral damage to the nefarious influence of Morgan and Wong.

I mean, huh?

And, "It goes without saying"? It most certainly does not go without saying. Even if that were the consensus it wouldn't necessarily go without saying, and that most certainly is not the consensus.

The first season of Milliennium, while reasonably entertaining in fits and starts, is hardly a paragon of television. Conversely, the second season, while not perfect, does a much better job of maintaining dramatic momentum. It's also one of the most creative and fearlessly bizarre seasons of network television in history, and that alone is worth something, given the fact that as a popular art form TV tends to shirk strangeness of any kind whenever possible.

In short, I'd say the second season is leaps and bounds ahead of the first, but that doesn't mean I'd preemptively slander anyone who disagrees with me.

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