How could so many think this was an original show?
How did Paul Donovan, Lex Gigeroff and Jeffrey Hirschfield avoid a law suit from Jodorowsky and Moebius?
And my final question: Why didn't they just film the Inkal books instead?
How can anyone liken this in any way to Battlestar Gallactica? Other than it is a SF show and it has some space craft flying about a bit and stuff. I'm not a comic book freak so I'll pass on the John Difool comparison.
What is the point of your post other than taking up space on the web?
Battlestar Galactica had bad direction, bad writing, bad actors and bad special effects, as did Lexx. There's the explanation for me likening them.
As for you not being a comic book freak and 'passing on the comparison', that answers your second question, as well as the three questions I asked. As long as you can get away with stealing ideas from another medium, somebody is bound to do it, unless some freak (in this case me) points it out.
Sorry to waste that valuable resource that is the Web on trying to enlighten others. It is obviously futile anyway.
Well I'm not defending Lexx in any way, I just tend to think of it as more of a cross between "Red Shoe Diaries" and "Doctor Who".
Anyway anyone who has not been living under a rock (as I'm sure you haven't) realises that this is the age of the post-modern, where all aspects of culture are intermingled, recycled, mined and regurgitated. Ever seen the Simpsons? Concepts are taken from one dimension/market and nurtured in other media to other audiences. Ever heard of Tarrantino? (which of his Original Scripted films were Original? - City On Fire, etc etc - mining HK cinema for plots/ideas and refining them making them his own). What about The Matrix - steals so many ideas from other more obscure films (eg. Ghost in the Shell - where one scene is almost ideantically recreated in the Matrix) - is it any less of a film because it draws on other sources?
Originality is so over-rated. In 17th century England, to be "original" was to be somewhat mad, go figure.
Anyway you base your comparison to "Gallactica" on the fact that it has bad special effects (thats the majority of SF series out there), bad writing (again in good company) no disagreement on your third point.
Your attempt to "enlighten others" with your clearly superior wit and knowledge is commendable, I thank you, for all those hapless oafs out there who seek enlightenment on IMDB...
Peace,
BadP.
...Simpsons...Tarrantino...The Matrix - is it any less of a film because it draws on other sources?But in all cases here, there was a discernable independent talent that would have expressed itself in some other form without the influences you mention. In Lexx, there was none. It was less of a film because it did nothing else than draw on other sources.
...attempt to "enlighten others" with your clearly superior wit and knowledge...As for my wit, I don't see me trying to be witty in any of the above posts; personally, I think they are unfunny bordering on the dull, and I wouldn't have bothered to reread them if you hadn't forced me with your comment.
You put your point across well BennyM. Also I just realised you were referring to the recent mini-series of Battlestar, not the original 70s TV show, which is what I was thinking of (which had cheesy stop-motion/CGI-less special effects btw. :))
Also excuse me being a bit flippant in my last post, I always felt that Lexx (the TV series, that is repeated pretty much constantly on late night TV over here in the UK) was quite idiosynchratic and a lot less of a "cardboard cutout" of a show, unlike the countless sci-fi clones that make their way over here from the other side of the Atlantic.
Still I think this subject is dead and buried and I think we'll both agree that we've expended far more energy discussing something which really does not merit the attention...
ciao
It is probably the most original Sci-Fi series in a very long time. I would compare Lexx to a cross between Monty Python and a good Derrida or Foucault essay. If you check out a book by the last 2 authors you will start to see that the writers and directors are actually winking at you.
I worship his Shadow was a great movie from the opening. I loved the "sameness" of all the pathetic Assistant back-up deputy mail carriers that were all the same and even acted the same---much like a Warhol painting. It is very obvious that the writers depict Tweedle as the everyman much like Cipher was the everyman in the Matrix. Although everyone wants to be Kai or Zev or Neo, we are all Ciphers and Tweedles whose only crime is being human. I could go on all day about each episode, but if you want to understand this series I would recommend checking out some books by foucault or Derrida, or Beaudrilard. Hope this info helps.
I had to register for the site just to remark that this was the most interesting flamewar I've ever had the priveledge to witness.
shareAsk yourself one question.... how much of the TV films, comics, books whatever out there today is truly original and not somehow based on combinations of something else?
Most of the films I have seen lately have copied stuff, or been based on other stuff, like various comic conversions and remakes of cult films/TV/comics (thunderbirds, spiderman, he grudge to name just a measly few).
Hell I've never read or even heard of em, but I bet you could make a list of stuff that was 'copied' in the Inkal books.
Just get over it, its a fact of life that almost everything is just something else with a slightly new spin on it.
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So What if the Lexx writers borrowed from other sources. It is done all the time in Hollywood with lesser results. LEXX was and remains one of the most darkest, yet funniest science-fiction shows EVER. It puts all other shows of the genre to shame - and that includes the modern Battlestar Dramatica and Stargate SUK 1.
shareRagnarHairybritches: ... probably the most original Sci-Fi series...No, it was not.
Of the entire internet of boards and such...i've only heard of two people including you to not understand that the show Lexx is not just for watching. This show isn't there to make sense so blatantly. Every episode doesn't have a lesson to teach or to show you a side of you that you never would have figured. The show is actually a good compilation of the wacky and weird world we live in. Shows that are "normal" are boring and this show puts emphasis on what that would look like and then gives you a pool sized shot of the true strangeness that is around us and sometimes is us. Sure a love slave, a dead romantic assassin, a fool in a red outfit, and a super smart, but super annoying robot head is a little out there. BUT that is the real point of SCIFI. Is it not?
So maybe you can't really relate to the show, and therefore you can't understand it or appreciate the little or big things it actually offers....does that really make it a bad show....its a quirky show and sometimes that extra quirkyness is put there for irony or maybe spontanaety(sp?) I know it seems weird but if you just engage into watching the show trying to find normalcy then why are you watching scifi in the first place. Sure the cgi effects aren't the best, but that is why you need a bit more imagination rather than a closed mind. Scifi is just as good in books, its just harder to express them in a medium that emphasises the points in the same way.....ooops gotta go to class...
Would it be too much to ask of the recent posters to read my original comments instead of just taking wild swinging guesses at what's wrong with me?
Me not like quirky shows or movies? Three of my favourite directors are Cronenberg, Lynch and Coen (My wife, on the other hand, has sworn never to waste time watching any of their films with me again, but that's another matter... and beside the point). But their films, high production values or not, are usually chock-full of original ideas (though I must admit to having trouble getting the 'idea' of Mulholland Dr.), the operative word here being 'original'.
So let me rephrase my original comment this way, so hopefully even the most die-hard fans of Lexx will know on what points to attack me:
Every character, storyline and/or IDEA in Lexx is lifted from somewhere else... no, wait, in the interest of unmistakability, let me come right out and say it: stolen. Most of it from Alejandro Jodorowsky's and Moebius' 'John Difool/Inkal' books (which apparently no other posters on these boards have read). And it saddens me to see that stealing something and calling it yours can win you a fan base.
And just to clarify further:
My comments here only apply to The Dark Zone Mini of 1997. I haven't seen the subsequent series and consequently wouldn't know if it got better.
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2003 question.
2007 answer: I'll check but I think the Sci-fi channel presented an adaptation of one of those works by either Jodorwsky or Moebius? It's set in a technologically futuristic world and one of the main characters is being used by a God, is that right? This main character is identified by a steel lower leg that was replaced by the God that is using him, right?
What you see is not necessarily what you get,
Not trying is dying, keep trying unto death....
That would be neither Jodorowsky nor Moebius, but Enki Bilal.
Here: http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0314063/
I'm really late here and I'm sure everyone is gone. I just have to comment on how to make a valid argument. There are generally two parts to an argument. A premises and a conclusion. Something along the lines of B.G and Lexx both have A.B.C.D.E.F.G. in common plotwise and A.B and C characters are eerily similar thus Lexx ripped off Battlestar Galactia. I only see a conclusion here absent a premise. Saying stuff about production values and budgets doesn't make a show a ripoff. I have seen both incarnations of B.G and have seen all of Lexx and I can't for the life of me see where these two shows overlap in areas that would cause one to accuse Lexx of being a ripoff worthy of a copyright lawsuit. There are no plot lines, characters, themes, places, really anything in common besides being set in space on a ship on the run. Would you now say that Stargate Universe is a giant ripoff of Lexx? Unknown Space, Living Ship blah blah blah.
sharePremises:
1) The "original" Battlestar Galactica was cheap, cheesy sci-fi.
2) The writers of Lexx "borrowed" a multitude of story elements from John Difool and added nothing of value.
Conclusion:
Lexx was cheap, cheesy sci-fi, with nothing original to redeem it.
Just to throw more fuel on an old fire...
I liked Lexx quite a bit. I really don't care if it's a blatant ripoff. In fact, I'll have to look into the works that BennyM has mentioned, since I might like them a lot as well.
I found Lexx to be dark and funny, and take its story to places that not many films or shows will go. F@@k yes it's cheesy as all hell sometimes, and has its moments of pure stupid, but I still liked the movies. I never saw much of the series, but it does get pretty good (better production, etc.)
Now, off to find out what the hell 'John Difool' is.
More than a decade later, I discover this thread. BennyM, if you're still out there, I've read The Incal books--I'm a huge Moebius fan. I also think there's a strong influence on Lexx--Stanley is very John DiFool, and there are many other wacky elements in Lexx that seem to be inspired by The Incal--the same can be said of The Fifth Element, as well (Moebius worked on the film as a conceptual designer, and, oddly enough, he and Jodorowsky even tried to sue Besson over similarities to The Incal, but that case was tossed out).
Anyhow, instead of causing me to dislike Lexx, those things actually make me like Lexx more. Often, for me, it's not about whether creators come up with ideas that completely new but whether they share the same aesthetic as I. That can often cause me to appreciate their works all the more.
I would argue that as a television show, Lexx is original. I wish there were more shows like this one.
I also hope that Nicholas Winding Refn does make The Incal into a film--he's expressed interest. Also, from what I understand, he's pals with Jodorowsky.
It's not as if John Difool didn't have precedents. Honore Balzac may want a word with you.
Even there, it's it's not necessarily a bad thing. The movie "Alien" was a very inflential, sort of "holy clams!" movie. It was basically a pastiche of "It Came From Outer Space," "Dark Star," and "Planet of The Vampires."
And yet "Alien" was one of the scariest movies ever.
But yeah, The Incal had a huge number of precedents. If you're going to complain, I'd say Lexx drew more off of Blake's 7.
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