Preliminary voting results - Dark Skies (1996) Discussion

[–] madp 11 years ago

My vote:
Brimstone

Now it has just occurred to me we could have yet another second tie...

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[–] dtmuller 11 years ago

And, of course, I'll vote for my nominee:

Awake

If it's still four of us next time, I'm going to suggest some tie breakers. But I don't want to change the rules now.

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[–] madp 11 years ago

How would the tie breakers work?

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[–] dtmuller 11 years ago

There are several things we could use, so we'd have to agree before voting on which ones to use and the order to apply them. We would apply them only to the series that are tied after the initial ballot. Some examples:

Total number of votes, regardless of 1st/2nd/3rd place. (This favors the one that the most people expressed a willingness to watch.)

Number of 1st place votes only. (This favors the one that people felt most strongly about.)

The show that is oldest (or most recent), based on the broadcast date of the pilot/first episode. (This will always break the tie, unless we manage to find two shows that debuted on the same day.)

Coin flip. (Not literally, of course, but choose a random number that's readily available, like the first digit to the left of the decimal place in the Dow Industrial closing for the next day. One show wins on "odd", the other on "even".)

And there could be others as well. But we'll talk about all of that next time.

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[–] madp 11 years ago

by dtmuller » 10 hours ago (Sat Jul 27 2013 05:27:28)
IMDb member since July 2003
Post Edited: Sat Jul 27 2013 05:28:37
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There are several things we could use, so we'd have to agree before voting on which ones to use and the order to apply them. We would apply them only to the series that are tied after the initial ballot. Some examples:

Yes, that's what I was thinking, I just wanted to confirm it.

Total number of votes, regardless of 1st/2nd/3rd place. (This favors the one that the most people expressed a willingness to watch.)

Number of 1st place votes only. (This favors the one that people felt most strongly about.)

These would be my first two choices exactly. My next criteria would be:

- The show with the fewest seasons - so one-season shows would get precedence.

- The show with the fewest episodes - because the shortest ones go quickly.

However, show age makes as much sense as choosing the shows in alphabetical order...

The only problem is that we cannot apply any of these right now because that would be the same as choosing the show. I think these rule complements could be used as of the next voting.

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[–] dtmuller 11 years ago

madp (in another thread): Caprica is also growing on me. It's still recent, so I'm not sure I'd want to see it again so soon, but it's another welcome suggestion. Awake was a curious show with some really WTF moments, but again, way too recent. Like a good wine, it needs to be matured in TV history.

madp (this thread): However, show age makes as much sense as choosing the shows in alphabetical order.

Hmmmmm...

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[–] madp 11 years ago

Which just means I put great value to alphabetical order... Har, har. Gosh, I feel like a politician being quoted and all.

But now I'm not sure why I even came up with the wine analogy since I don't even drink wine... What I was originally thinking is that I've seen Awake and Caprica recently, so they haven't matured in my memories long enough. It's an interesting experience to rewatch a show I watched many, many years ago, and see what different conclusions I'll draw now. But a show I just saw last year, well, there's little fun to me in that. And I wouldn't have any objections whatsoever in watching a very new show which I haven't seen.

Now, about the age of the show, I'd say that a newer show is more likely to be bearable by someone who didn't choose it, while an older show would be more in tune with the philosophy of the group, which is watching old cancelled stuff. Yep, perhaps "maturing like a good wine" in TV history makes sense after all.

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[–] dtmuller 11 years ago

I feel like a politician

Gee, I didn't mean to be that offensive! Just having some fun while waiting for charmed to check in.

I've also taken to playing with this new "Emoticons" button. Maybe we need to come up with icons for each show. So, charmed, is it gonna be Awake or Brimstone?

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[–] wlcebtg 11 years ago

Awake is O.K. with me another series I've never heard of.

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[–] madp 11 years ago

by wlcebtg » 5 hours ago (Sat Jul 27 2013 10:22:43)
IMDb member since April 2007
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Awake is O.K. with me another series I've never heard of.

So, two votes for Awake, one for Brimstone. So now it's up to charmed whether we'll be awake in the next weeks or burning in the indecisive limbo of another tie.

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[–] charmedwon666 11 years ago

Not trying to be difficult but I'm going to have to go with

Brimstone......

Just got home from travel......took a little while to catch up.

http://codenamestone.blogspot.com/

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[–] dtmuller 11 years ago

OK to break the tie, since I'm the only one who didn't vote for Brimstone in the first place, I'll change my vote.

I avoided it in part because I couldn't locate it anywhere. But I just discovered it's on YouTube. This time, though, I'm not going to make the same mistake as I did with Dark Skies. I'm downloading the entire series first. (Then again, if I'd stopped watching Dark Skies in mid-run like that, I would have missed all of the shark jumping.)

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[–] wlcebtg 11 years ago

Brimstone it is... Only a few shows should be a piece of cake...
I just realized China Beach is out on DVD. May have to re-watch that..

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[–] madp 11 years ago

OK, now that it's settled, let me just summarize the suggestions given for tie breakers:

In case of a future tie, the winner should be the show that...

1- ...has the most votes in general.
2- ...has the fewest seasons.
3- ...has the fewest episodes.
4- ...is the oldest.
5- ...is the first in the alphabetical order.

What do you guys think? Can we implement that? any other suggestions?

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[–] dtmuller 11 years ago

After giving it some thought, I'm not sure it's a good idea to get that complex. I know I proposed several rules, but are we really going to remember all of that? After all, this isn't like a city commission election or who gets into the playoffs. We don't really have to choose just one if we're seriously tied.

I propose:

Take the first, weighted ballot with 1st/2nd/3rd choices.

If tied, vote between those with the most points.

If still tied, most votes overall in the original round.

Finally, if we're still tied, we do both shows, starting with the one with the fewer episodes.

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[–] madp 11 years ago

by dtmuller » 1 hour ago (Mon Jul 29 2013 05:50:47)
IMDb member since July 2003
Post Edited: Mon Jul 29 2013 05:51:48
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After giving it some thought, I'm not sure it's a good idea to get that complex. I know I proposed several rules, but are we really going to remember all of that?

Don't worry, I'll remember. Besides, there's no need remembering, and we just have to check this board again, or write it down somewhere. And really BESIDES, what you said is practically what I just said except for a few details. OK, having to watch BOTH shows is a different thing.

Just one more thing. What do you mean, "Take the first, weighted ballot with 1st/2nd/3rd choices."? We weigh 1st, 2nd and 3rd choices by the points system, but you list the points criterion in second. That was not clear to me.

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[–] dtmuller 11 years ago

And really BESIDES, what you said is practically what I just said except for a few details.

Actually, what I said dropped four of the five tiebreakers you proposed.

But I don't want to turn this into a project. I'm OK with whatever the group wants to do.

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[–] madp 11 years ago

OK, but most importantly, what did you mean by that?

Take the first, weighted ballot with 1st/2nd/3rd choices.

If tied, vote between those with the most points.

Aren't "weighing ballot with 1st/2nd/3rd choices" and "voting between those with the most points" the same thing? At least that's what I've been doing and weighing the first positions precisely by means of points.

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[–] dtmuller 11 years ago

Those two steps are what we've been doing all along.

First, we take a ballot with each of us voting for three shows, and those are weighted by first, second or third choice. Highest point total wins.

If two (or more) are tied for the hightest total point score (as with Brimstone and Awake this time: both had 6 points), we take a second vote between just the shows that tied in the first vote.

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[–] madp 11 years ago

Oh, I see. Now I get it. My misunderstanding was that I was thinking the tie-breakers were going to eliminate this second voting at all, so eliminating this extra step. This way we'd always get a show in the first ballot.

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[–] charmedwon666 11 years ago

In the beginning it was straight 1st place votes no tie breakers no weight on anything else that was selected just 1st place votes......
If middleman got 2 first place votes and brimstone got 4 seconds no first we would watch middleman pure and simple. Can't remember when we started point system.

http://codenamestone.blogspot.com/

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[–] madp 11 years ago

by charmedwon666 » 49 minutes ago (Mon Jul 29 2013 17:59:03)
IMDb member since February 2008
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In the beginning it was straight 1st place votes no tie breakers no weight on anything else that was selected just 1st place votes......
If middleman got 2 first place votes and brimstone got 4 seconds no first we would watch middleman pure and simple. Can't remember when we started point system.

Well, if the group wants, we can go back to straight 1st place votes. But then we'd go for only two suggestions and one vote only. It makes no sense to named three shows in order of preference if the second and third choices have no chances. We'd go for "pick your favorite show," count the four votes, and that's it. We might as well just do that next.

The points systems gives each of us a chance of suggesting more than one show, so even if our favorite one doesn't win, we can still suggest something we like, and that suggestion counts, even if it's not the show we feel most strongly about. And tie breakers are not necessary because of the points system. It's mostly because there's an even number of us (4 voters). If The Middleman got two straight 1st place votes and Brimstone got the other two 1st place votes, we'd still have a tie, and we'd still need tie-breakers. In other words, we'll need tie-breakers no matter the system.

Considering the results we had, if we were to apply the "straight 1st place vote only" criterion now, the winner would have been Awake. We can still go back to the straight 1st place vote and watch Awake then. Is that what you guys want?

SHOW................1ST.........2ND...........3RD......TOTAL........POINTS
Brimstone.............1...........1..............1...........3.................6
Awake..................2...........0..............0...........2................6
The Middleman.......1...........1..............0...........2.................5

However we can have the best of both worlds. We can elect the next show by the points system, but use as first tie-breaker the show with the most 1st place votes, not the show with the most votes in general.

Let me know what you think so there'll be no misunderstandings, and things can run more smoothly next time. Do you prefer the points system? Or go back to the "1st choice only" system? I'll only alert the next board on Sunday, there's plenty of time to change that.

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[–] dtmuller 11 years ago

No, we don't want to change anything now. Brimstone is the winner. Whether we do something different next time is something I think we can discuss in twelve or thirteen weeks.

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[–] madp 11 years ago

Great!

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[–] charmedwon666 11 years ago

I agree, no need to change anything now....Brimstone it is.....Alert the board.

As far as the system is concerned, I don't know which one is better or worse, the one we are using now seems perfectly functional, I was just pointing out the way we did it in the past, things have changed quite a bit and we don't have near the group we use to. at one time we had 9 people, we haven't picked anyone up from any of the boards we have visited in a while, so now with just 4 the dynamic has changed. Perhaps the brimstone board will be more populated and some folks will take an interest in us.

http://codenamestone.blogspot.com/

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[–] madp 11 years ago

I bow to your expertise in dealing with a large flock of people. Whatever you think we could do to recapture that will have my support.

As for the system, no system is perfect. In the example you gave, for instance, with 1st choice only votes, a show with two 1st places would win, but that would mean only 50% of the people would be involved and the others could feel like outsiders. In the points system in which a show with 4 2nd place votes is picked, that means the winner is a show everybody is involved in, but, perhaps, nobody really cared about it that much...

I guess for some people who feel strongly about one show and one show only, the 1st option vote would work better. But for a person who is thinking about two or three good possibilities, the points system would work better. Personally I feel I like the idea that the chosen show was among my choices, even if it was my third option.

But, again, no system is perfect...

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[–] wlcebtg 11 years ago

When do we move to Brimstone's board?

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[–] madp 11 years ago

The announcement is usually made on a Sunday, but now that we've clarified things, I can do that sooner, like tomorrow.