MovieChat Forums > A Walk in the Clouds (1995) Discussion > End is cheating * SPOILERS *

End is cheating * SPOILERS *


I loved this beautiful romantic movie, but...I feel that in love triangles, the screenwriters are cheating if they either kill off the spouse or, as is the case here, have the spouse having their own affair and wanting a divorce. I think this dumbs down both the plot and the character portrayals. Here we get the fairy tale happy ending we all want but Paul doesn't have to look like the villain of the piece by leaving his wife. The lovers should be forced to make the difficult choice, one way or the other. Anyone else agree?

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I understand what you are saying, You want the decision to be more difficult, but i think that if they had made Paul a villian like person or whatever-if they had made them have to make the difficult decision i think the movie would've lost some of its romance-- but that's just me- i dislike movies where the spouse cheats on spouse, etc. Unless it is done' tastefully.

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I saw Paul as a hero because he was willing to stand by his wedding vows even though he was tempted by Victoria.

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In the original movie, he was willing to stand by his vows. He didn't cheat on his wife, and then goes back to his wife at the end of the movie. So I think that the original poster has a point, and that this was the type of hard choice that the Keanu Reeves remake was too chicken to deal with.


11... 92... 12...

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If Paul had stayed at the vineyard, he may have always wondered about his wife. He would not have been free to marry Victoria, (or so he would have thought)and more importantly I just kinda think it was "meant to be".

I think we can all agree that real life choices are never as easy as the outcome of a fairytale......



Janice


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I see what you’re saying, but I don’t agree. In reality, nothing is as easy and cut and dry as it is in the movies. Life is hard, complicated, and sometimes relationships leave you feeling terrible.

That’s why we have movies like this. Romances, Fairy Tales, Fantasies…we only need a small amount of conflict to pull us into a familiar level with the characters, but for the most part we want to see “Happily ever after”.

Here’s another reason why not: Let’s say Paul’s wife was faithful and waiting anxiously for him to return home. He comes home and reveals he’s no longer in love with her and he wants to leave. Tears, screaming, fighting…then Paul gets back on the bus and falls into Victoria’s arms. How many people who have been dumped for another woman (or man) would want to see that? Could you really be happy for Paul and Victoria thinking about the poor heartbroken women he left?

Anyway, sorry to babble. I just think all the realistic conflict should be left to night time TV dramas.


When the hurly-burly's done. When the battle's lost and won.

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Sir John Rossman

Knight Of The Jersey Shore

Owner and Proprietor Of The Laughing Loon Inn

Just one word here Purple Niobe:



AMEN! :) :) :)

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This was NOT dumbed down. MANY girls were put in the position of being attached, married or not, to a soldier going off to war, and did not have the heart to tell them they weren't in love with them. In the beginning, Paul states that he only knew this girl a few days.

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This is a story about fate. What is it people hate about that? Magic? God? Not in this modern pessimistic world. Goodness? It's all relative! When good things happen? Oh, no! Something bad didn't happen! Now I'm disappointed. Bah! Not surprisingly, you'll find that the very same people who say we're all nothing but determined phenomena in a meaningless and godless universe are the same people who hate beautiful stories with perfect endings. I suppose it amounts to the general hatred of all things good and beautfiul in this world. It's like the minds of everyone in the last century were raped and pillaged of decency. Hence, all the declarations of hate for this great film in this forum. People who call the this masterpeice the worst film ever and such. Why? Because it is a story of perfection, they way things should be. I'll tell you what; I despise almost every other film ever made, especially those made after, say, 1950. They are nothing but exercises in self-pitying drivel. Wherever you find something truly moving, there is a hoard of losers ready to make fun of it. Ready to declare some brainless and mediocre blood and guts thriller or some new cheap action flick is "soooo amazing!" It's like zombies in an orgy of simple minded garbage worship. And I'll tell you something else, I don't even care how lowly the majority of people are, how foolishly they fall in love with noise and meaninglessness. You may think I've gone over the top, but judging from the other reviews around here for great films, this entire site is plagued with basically tastless people and I haven't nearly gone far enough. I just hate, basically. But not this, and not other great things that represent the truth of things. No supposedly realistic film is ever realistic. It's all a bunch of parlor tricks ending in moral relativism and nihilism. You can have it. The world has really gone to hell.

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Hi Everlastingman

Wow!!! That's some write up. I don't entirely agree, but I like your passion. I have noted somewhere that this is the kind of film that people either love or hate (somewhat the way people feel about Physics or Math). No one is indifferent.

I don't think this film is realistic, but neither is it a fairy tale. Because of that, because each character is exactly who they are without tricks and special effects or symbolism, I'm especially taken by them. It is sumptuous and yet delicate the way Victoria is. It is steadfast and strong the way Paul and Senior Arogon are. I think we can agree on that, or do we?

I like the films say from 1930 to 1972. Not all of them were blood and guts. And some of the films in the 50's where. Those dark film noire films weren't called that for nothing. I just think there are good films from any era and if they demand a quality we do not have, then of course our first instinct is to reject it as you noted, and even make fun of them.

Take good care from Jerome

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Here we get the fairy tale happy ending we all want but Paul doesn't have to look like the villain of the piece by leaving his wife. The lovers should be forced to make the difficult choice, one way or the other.
I am actually just rewatching this dvd at the moment and I have to say I see things a little differently.

Right from the start, I didn't think his wife sat twiddling her thumbs waiting patiently for Paul to return from war. She was busy "negotiating" a pay rise for him with his boss, working on her self-improvement, entertaining other men. All these things she does in order to achieve HER goals. By the time he does return, their expectations and needs are poles apart. Betty tells him she wants "things" like she never had before - he wants things too, heartfelt things like a family and belonging, whereas she is more focused on the material things in life.

Paul is very gallant, an officer and a gentleman; he is doing the only thing he can think of (on the spot) to rescue Victoria and in the process develops genuine feelings for her (unlike those he has for his wife whom he married 24 hours after meeting and which were most likely based purely on the physical). He does not act on his feelings for Victoria (even though she is quite willing) because, even if his marriage to Betty is meaningless, he IS still married.

I don't think Paul and Victoria are "baddies" or that the story was dumbed down by Betty conveniently leaving him. The writers could easily have made Paul's character as single to simplify matters, but I think having Paul married was a deliberate tool to show how much he is a man of his word. And how by that very nature, he fits perfectly into Victoria's proud but honourable family.

Sorry this post is so long, but your view got me thinking!

jc
"What say you?" ~ RotK

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theWyleyOne---I don't agree with your view of this film, however, if you look at this movie again, you will find that Keanu's character was a sergeant, or a Non-Commissioned Officer, and not an officer. My own father, who is now in his mid-eighties, retired as a Sergeant First Class after having served in WW II (and afterward), and we are very proud of him and all of the other millions of other Non-Coms and enlisted GIs who served in that "Great Crusade" against the forces of fascism, racism, and hatred.

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Do you know that this movie is a remake of an Italian film (Quattro passi tra le nuvole) done in 1942? There were even a French version with the actor Fernandel.

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Arm61, it's OK if you don't agree with my view, each to their own, but I don't understand the rest of your post!

I have NO IDEA what rank Paul held; by "officer and a gentleman" I simply meant he was a gallant and chivalrous guy who didn't hesitate to step in and help a complete stranger.


jc
"What say you?" ~ RotK

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TheWyleyOne: I understand you now!

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the term "officer and gentleman" is often meant to provide a description of a man's character - not his rank!

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[ well... ok, time has passed and probably you won't be reading this, but i reply anyways :) ]

i completely agree, and i add that the very conflict (paul's marriage vs. his love for victoria) helps build his character, helps him grow and learn what he wants in life (he did say earlier on that he wasn't sure, right?). the obstacle of his marriage also is needed to test his (and victoria's) love.

what i didn't find quite convincing was his protests to his wife that he wanted really to make it work. i would have expected him to have admitted having come to the same conclusions she (betty) had reached while he was away. and her affair too seemed a bit "rushed" (we had no clue she was having an affair when paul returned home, and after all he hadn't stayed in napa valley for that long, just three days, right?). certainly the first scene of his return and reunion with betty screamed of the mismatch (she never read any of his letters and wanted things; he wanted family and a real job, not just selling chocolates). when he left the next morning, i imagined (not knowing the film was a remake of "four steps in the clouds", 1942) that he was leaving her and try to make it in the real world.

why did he want to reach sacramento? did he have connections there? that detail seems to have been dropped along the way, or else i have missed the point...

it would be unfair to compare this movie with the original story (which was much sadder: once he's assured he has reconciled the father with the daugther, the hero returns to his bitchy wife and lousy life. but that was real wartime, and it was italy, and it was the dawn of neorealism...
unfair as it is, still it's unavoidable!

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what i didn't find quite convincing was his protests to his wife that he wanted really to make it work.

Interesting point- please don't hate me for saying this, people, but with a better actor (Keanu is still great), you might not be questioning that so much. I think we are supposed to get the impression that he feels bound by duty, even if he doesn't love her anymore. He's the good guy; he's the polar opposite of the professor who knocks up Victoria and then ditches her. He honors his commitments. He's Edwards Ferrars from Sense and Sensibility if you're a Jane Austen fan. Exasperating at times, but always honorable. Perhaps a better actor could have made us feel the struggle he goes through more strongly. Having said that, I still think Keanu Reeves does a very nice job, and I did sense the inner battle raging in Paul.

I need to get my drink on- Pearl http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=8093247

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I absolutely agree with you.

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In general, I would completely agree with you. Having an all too convenient happy ending annoys me. I'm all for happy endings, but you have to make me believe them. Good example of a book that doesn't do this- Anna Karenina. Anna's husband doesn't get killed off, she has to deal with the consequences of her decision. That's the way it should be.

That being said, I don't think this ending is convenient or trite. If Betty had seemed a loving, faithful wife in the beginning, and then had suddenly, out of the blue wound up being an adulteress, I would say- stupid ending. But we are prepared for the likelihood that her character will be unfaithful. As TheWyleyOne pointed out, she was busy for four years working out life to meet her own needs. Do you think she sat at home like a perfect little wife and went without sex for four years? Does she seem like that kind of person? Um, yeah, I don't think so. Our director here, Alfsonso Arau, actually does a beautiful job of setting up a marriage that is doomed for disaster. Before the story even gets going, we know these two crazy kids are not going to work it out. So in the end, when she's cheating, it shouldn't and doesn't feel like a cop out. We expected it. She's probably been cheating on him everyday since he left for war.

The fact that she already got an anullment may be a bit convenient, but beyond that, Arau isn't asking us to stretch our credulity that far.

I need to get my drink on- Pearl http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=8093247

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"As TheWyleyOne pointed out, she was busy for four years working out life to meet her own needs. Do you think she sat at home like a perfect little wife and went without sex for four years? Does she seem like that kind of person?"

oh i think there was no question on that. but this reminds me of "the marriage of maria braun", and maria certainly didn't roll her thumbs while waiting. she worked hard to make her marriage the best she could... but there their marriage was based on love. the marriage between betty and paul was based on a whim.
i just think that it would have been a bit more convincing if we had had some hints in the first encounter that she had taken care of her feelings too.

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