MovieChat Forums > Underground (1997) Discussion > Am I the only one who didn't like this f...

Am I the only one who didn't like this film?

posted 19 years ago by rooprect
45 replies | jump to latest

I wouldn't say it sucks, but I wouldn't recommend it, either. If you're expecting to see something like Arizona Dream, you'll be disappointed.

While the storyline is quite original and clever, the presentation lacks lucidity. And in Kusturica's effort to convey a surreal existence, he sacrificed character development. None of these people seem human. So it's hard to sympathize with their struggles or rejoice in their victories. UNLESS... (read the last paragraph)

[Aside to the people who have seen this movie: Who is the protagonist supposed to be, anyway? There was only one character with whom I sympathized (you know the one), but it was a minor role.]

The director failed to make me care. Europeans will disagree with me, because they DO care. This is their story. Kusturica weaves a lot of original WWII footage to drive that point home. I can only imagine the nostalgia. Unfortunately, to an outsider, it doesn't hold the same charm. (Anyone care to watch 3 hours of my family's home movies? Didn't think so.) So, by itself, or as viewed by an alien from outer space, Underground is not quite the masterpiece you've been led to believe. It's more like a grand inside-joke that you may not get. Hope this was helpful.

***EDIT (few months later)***

Thanks to this thread, I now realize that I saw the USA theatrical version (167 min) which has been severely condensed from the original 8-hr version. So, yeah, everything I said still holds true, but now I don't blame Kusturica; I blame the film editors!!!! >:( Carry on.

[–] Lakroy 19 years ago

When I first saw this film I hade the same oppinion as you "rooprect".

But when I saw It again, about 1 mounth ago, I really loved It.
I can understand that people don't care about this, I don't care about the civilwar in America, It have been made houndreds of films about this war but I still don't care and the story don't make me feel much at all.

It's this way It is with movies like this, I think that the film was mostly made for the people on Balkan. The people from Balkan can watch this film and both laugh and cry, because they UNDERSTAND.

Sadly It's how it works, when you have to translate something you can't never get the same feeling och enjoy the film to it's max.

But everybody has a right to think what they want about this film.

I WOULD recommend It to all of you people out there, it dosen't mather if you cant understand ALL of the jokes/situations/people ect... in this film.

It's still one of the best movies ever, I think It's a real masterpice and It's one of my favorite films of all time, Kusturicas best film ever!!!

WATCH IT, ENJOY IT...

[–] rooprect 19 years ago

Yes, I watched it again and enjoyed it a bit more. But still, it doesn't elicit the sympathy it was designed to. I blame that on the cultural & historical disassociation.

However, I will say that a master filmmaker can transcend these cultural barriers; for example, Jean-Pierre Jeunet recently did a film about the French perspective of World War I which I found very captivating, even though I've never studied French history.

I think in this case, Kusturica was not interested in the audience outside of Europe. That is unfortunate for me, because I do enjoy Kusturica's more cosmopolitan works.

[–] Blazes_Boylan 19 years ago

Jeunet isn´t a master...

[–] freebiescrap 16 years ago

Rooprect said it all. I'm a Serbian, living outside of my country for the last 4-5 years. The only person that liked, and actually had this movie in his collection, was one Russian person that followed closely the politics of Balkans.

Westerners (especially Americans) are culturally very far to understand many, many parts of this movie. Metaphors are just out of their reach. Even if they learned the history of the area (which one? there are many versions...), and if they knew somebody from that area, still they would miss out on a lot of small metaphors that are in the movie, because in order to pick them all up, you simply had to have lived in there, for at least 15 years...

It was made mostly for the people from Balkans. I love this movie as my top 10 ever seen, but as rooprect said, I wouldn't recommend it to an American, without him explicitly wanting to learn more about Balkan culture.

[–] ixta_coyotl 19 years ago

i agree, the film stinks. the only thing it has going for it is the sexy cover photo. i cannot see what the appeal is: unattractive, unsympathetic characters; low quality cinematography and general production values; meandering, pointless plot... what's not to love?

[–] milan-andrijasevic 19 years ago

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
u r either too young or... gotta pay attention a bit more...

[–] ilieMoromete 19 years ago

well, i'm sure there's more than just one person who might not like this film, but if so, they'd better have good reasons :p

"the film stinks" re-he-heaaaally? well, let's see:

"the only thing it has going for it is the sexy cover photo"; so, in order for a movie to not stink it has to have a sexy cover photo, ok, got it

"unattractive, unsympathetic characters"; well, to each his own i'll give you that, but i disagree; if by attractive you mean good, beautiful, well-ntendede [maybe sexy?] characters, it is not the movie for you; if by attractive you mean human, weak [still, well-intended], loving [not just sexy] characters, than maybe you need to look again; i was rarely as sympathetic to movie characters as i was when seeing underground

"low quality cinematography"; i'm afraid i lost you here; are we still talking about the same movie? 'cause this is some of the most beautiful cinematography ever to be seen; belongs with the classics

"meandering, pointless plot"; well, you definetely got it wrong here: there is a very original, complex plot to be followed and numerous symbols that are neither to hard to discover neither simplistic; the title-phrase pretty much says it all: once upon a time there was a country...

[–] johnny_O 19 years ago

i watched it last night for the first time and think its brilliant. The cinematography was one of the best characteristics of the film, as was acting performance and writing. Its really hard to say which part was better. There are many little pieces that can be missed that mean alot. Like the Tito references... the title....the germans...i mean come on...you can go on and on. This is one of the best films i have ever seen and i graduate from film school in 2 months.

[–] spasic_ivana 19 years ago

Sure, not everybody has to like this movie, but some of the comments I've just read...I do not know if I should laugh or cry...

rooprect: "because I do enjoy Kusturica's more cosmopolitan works" ...More cosmopolitan?! Maybe you get a good dictionary and see what the word really means...Isn't it art itself cosmopolitan?

Next time we can ask Kusturica to make something commercial so that everybody is able to understand.

[–] rooprect 19 years ago

Main Entry: 2cosmopolitan
Function: adjective
1 : having worldwide rather than limited or provincial scope or bearing

wtf dictionary do you use, bro? Or are you talking about vodka & cranberry juice lol

[–] srkis 19 years ago

No, you are not. My wife didn't, either...

[–] thisisthegirl011 18 years ago

i also didnt really like it. loved the music and dancing scenes though, esp. Natalija's theatrical dancing and singing!!

[–] katknit 18 years ago

why would anyone expect anything like arizona dream?
why do you need A protagonist?
i'm european indeed. i just think you're a dumbass.
so you watch your movies with aliens?
*beep*

[–] andrej_666 18 years ago

In all honesty,the movie is loaded with jokes,situations and characters that appeal mainly to people from ex-Yugoslavia(not all of them I should say).
The movie IS brilliant but not for everyone!

[–] rooprect 18 years ago

Yes... but I'm afraid all that highbrow humo(u)r escapes me... like sticking a rose in an obese whore's ass. Ah-ha-ha. Funny stuff. [/sarcasm] Now come here and give me a kiss, you great big spaz. You, MissKate130, need to chill.

"Why would anyone expect anything like Arizona Dream?"
Um, maybe because it's by the same director, filmed in the same year? :roll:

"Why do you need a protagonist?"
It's good form. Take Literature 101 and then report back to me, please.

"You watch your movies with aliens?"
As a matter of fact, Solyaris & 2001: A Space Odyssey are great films. Got a problem with that?

Hugs & kisses

[–] andrej_666 18 years ago

Funny that....one of my friends,for example doesn't appreciate Monty Python humour but pisses himself laughing when he watches movie like Deuce Bigalow....other friend is a huge fan of Indian movies(dancing and all....maybe because his Nepalese)and he laughs his ass off at all their jokes in the movie but can't understand why I laugh at Eric bana in "Chopper"-you see,different people-different cultures-different views and opinions-sticking a rose in an obese whore's ass can be quite funny(try it sometimes)....most of the time in ex-Yu and Serbian movies humour is too detached from real life as most of us wish were living some other life anyway!!!There,I said it!
Seeya

[–] rooprect 18 years ago

sticking a rose in an obese whore's ass can be quite funny(try it sometimes)....

LMAO!

Agreed... I should try things first before I judge :)

[–] benemy 18 years ago

i saw this movie YEARs ago..and absolutely adored it. seen many underground european movies before and loved this so deeply.

his latest movie black cat white cat is incredible too.. so colourful, happy, funny, insane, etc.. anyone who hates it really has no heart.. its not a sappy, shallow *beep* hollywood movie.. its insane, party, crazy, wild...

wowowowowow

just watch it

[–] arcanus_aequitas 18 years ago

Well obviously the movie is not 4 anyone...
to rooprect: Dude, by the fact u liked arizona dream more than underground i understand that u r superficial blockbuster fan who hollywood makes most of their money on... this movie is amazing, cant argue with that and ppl who say it sucks either dont understand it or used to effects and instant pleasure... Kusturuca himself dispies hollywood and thinks of Arizona dream as his "less prefect" works( i know this cuz i drank beer with him in a pub on his tour in israel)...
bottom line rooprect: if u infact havent liked Underground maybe u should stop watchin quality movies and stick to "alien" flicks... And by the posts u wrote im positive u didnt meen the tarkovski version of "Solaris"...

[–] rooprect 18 years ago

Yes, I meant Tarkovsky. And Bela Tarr is one of my favourite directors, so get off your artsy fartsy highhorse and try to be objective about all this. Sheesh.

to anus_equinox: by the fact that you abbreviate words like "ppl" and "u" I understand that you may be a certified moron. Congratulations. You have not yet learned to criticize (and I mean CRITICIZE, not BASH) a film based on discussable criteria.

My criticisms of Underground are as follows:
#1 - There's not as much character development as there should have been. We the audience do not necessarily sympathize with anyone, so their tragedies are muted and ineffective. Example of how to do GOOD character development without wasting a lot of time: _12 Angry Men_

#2 - It's rather jerky in storyboard. Scenes zap back & forth in an "MTV" fashion that detracts from the gravity of the story. I would like to see the scenes breathe a bit. Understood, Kusturica uses the rapid collages to acheive a bizarre mood (a la _City of Lost Children_), but in the case of _Underground_, it doesn't fit well, because there is so much substance to the story we would otherwise like to digest.

#3 - I found the acting a bit over the top. Now this may be a cultural difference in that I prefer films that typically use a lot of subtlety (Wenders, Salvatores, Welles, Tarr, Kieslowsky). When compared to these other directors, Kusturica seems a bit spastic.

Please, people, respond in an intelligent fashion. Otherwise, you can take your attitudes and shove them up your arse (with a rose) ;)

[–] andrej_666 18 years ago

I KNEW IT!!!!YOU ARE THE COMIC BOOK GUY FROM THE SIMPSONS!!!!!

[–] Rgerpu 18 years ago

"#2 - It's rather jerky in storyboard. Scenes zap back & forth in an "MTV" fashion that detracts from the gravity of the story."

Well, the Serb fans of Kusturica's work will say he's too big an artist to be tied by the traditional storytelling rules, and all that crap, blah-blah-blah, but the real reason is actually more prosaic: The theatric version you saw is merely cut from the 8 hours long TV-series made for Serbian television. (Sounds megalomaniac, doesn't it?) So, it's nothing but a good-ol'-fashioned bad editing, nothing else.

[–] rooprect 18 years ago

For real?? Gawd, that explains everything. I mean, really, I've probably come across sounding like a Kusturica-hater, but the fact is that I love his work, and I just thought Underground (the version I saw) was sub-par. But if the full version is 8 hrs long, I can imagine it had all the elements I missed. Thanks Rgerpu for explaining this!

[–] kosovo1389 18 years ago

Yup, Underground is actually a mini-series. I still enjoy the Theatrical Cut, but the mini-series is much better. I think that if you saw the uncut version you'd also like the cut version better. Sometimes you just don't have 8 hours to kill.

- It is the exception that confirms the rule -

[–] rooprect 18 years ago

"I feel as though a great weight has been lifted from my body!"
- the dude with creepy teeth in Star Trek V
(see? I do watch scifi)

Well, now my faith in Kusturica has been restored... but at the same time I'm going crazy because I want to get my hands on the real version. Does anyone know if a DVD set exists? VHS?

[–] DrTrannySurprise 18 years ago

Hmmm... So "Arizona Dream" is a cliched hollywood "blockbuster?"..... Learn something new everyday!

myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=494429&Mytoken=20050322191031

[–] rooprect 18 years ago

Yeah haha... apparently any movie in English is Hollywood tripe. Personally I think Arizona Dream was the most offbeat of Kusturica's films, but just because it had a few famous American actors, apparently it's not fit to be considered in the artsy genre.

Btw, to all non-Americans: Arizona Dream was never shown in any major theatres here. It was generally screened at college campuses or obscure film festivals only. I saw it at GSU with a total of 6 other people in the room. Hardly a blockbuster!

[–] somers_tim 18 years ago

rooprect,
it looks like you know a lot about good movies (I personally think that Underground qualifies as a good movie, to be recomended to others, but that's just my humble opinion) and your criticism is well funded, I mean that you bring arguments to prove your point. Good thing!
I think you have a good taste also: Solaris, 2001 A space odessey, 12 angry men, ... So to be clear about this: I have no disrespect four your opinion about the movie, just like their is no reason to disrespect other people's opinion here.

BUT!

In one of your first posts, there was something that really hurted me, and that probably hurted a lot of other people (europeans probably): to compare archive footage of the terror of WWII to your own home made family video's, is way out of line I think. It confirms the image a lot of Europeans have on Americans: if it not happens in america and/or with americans, I do not care.

You probably didn't mean it that way, because you seem a reasonable guy, but yet, I felt like I had to react. Hope you get my point!

Greetings,
Tim-the-belgian-guy-who-works-for-a-large-American-multinational

[–] rooprect 18 years ago

Hi t.t.b.g.w.w.f.a.l.a.m,

Thanks for bringing that up! I had no idea it would be offensive, but now I understand, yes, it is. So I apologize. Americans are funny... we are so overwhelmed with tragic images that we have become desensitized to them. (This is how all people are, but Americans are especially susceptible because we have so many gruesome news channels on tv.)

That's why it is a difficult job for a Kusturica to make such movies for an American audience. It's not that we're bad people... it's just that we are emotionally isolated. And like Stalin said: "A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic." Sad but true. It may be more effective for Kusturica to focus on a single character rather than an entire country's history (if he wants to capture an American audience, that is).

Of course, I'm not trying to excuse myself (or America) for its apathy. I'm just explaining why it exists. Your point is well taken, Tim!
Cheers,
Rooprect-the-American-who-works-for-a-small-Canadian-outfit ;)

[–] somers_tim 18 years ago

Apology well taken as well, rooprect!
Good to see there are still some well educated US citizens who don't consider an apology as a defeat. Eat this Mr. President! (Am I on the CIA's black list now?) :-)

ps: good point about the american apathy as well I think.

T.-the-brainwashed-by-a-sports-brand-one ;-)

ps: If you are, by any chance, a republican in heart and soul, I hope you won't go nuts over the President line. Consider it European humor ;-)

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] A_Fistful_of_Pennies 12 years ago

I thought it was ok.

[–] cafesff 18 years ago

I think it's more than normal that there's a lot of people not liking Underground... Kusturica is not director who makes "easy to swallow" kind of movies...

for me this is Kusturica's finest work... it wrap ups a rather tragic story with lots of humour... outrageous characters... and all those little things that make it a Kusturica movie such as weird cool music, wedding parties and lots of animals!! what's there not to like? it's brilliant... :D

and by the way... I'm european... but that doesn't make me care more or less about this movie... if it's about world war II or not... I don't think it really matters... it doesn't bring back any memory... but I still care... it's a bunch of people who were stuck in a hole all their lives cuz they thought a war was going on up above... it's not a question if it's happenned or not... it's still sad.

[–] JocMet 18 years ago

sick portrait of a sick people!

no, you're not!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114787/board/thread/3978519