MovieChat Forums > 12 Monkeys (1996) Discussion > Wonderful movie but 2 Questions

Wonderful movie but 2 Questions

posted 9 years ago by I_Created_U
4 replies | jump to latest

1. Why did Kathryn feel like she knew Cole even though Cole was the one who experienced the airport scene in his childhood, not her? Are they hinting at the idea that she might remember past loops or something? In which case that wouldn't make sense because it would mean that the past IS in fact alterable. What am i missing? Thoughts?

2. How did the scientists in the future deduce from Cole's last phone call that Dr. Peters was the one behind everything and that they had to send Jose back in time with a gun? I mean, it seems to me that there wasn't enough material in that phone call to infer the identity of the real culprit.

Love the movie by the way, even better than i remembered. Love the unending temporal paradox loop idea and also love this old trope of one being the very instrument of one's own demise insofar as it is his very own murder that Cole witnessed as a kid that presumably caused him to suffer from sociopathic and violent behavior later in his future, which in turn will necessarily send him to the very prison wherein the time travel experiment is carried out. Which will obviously end up killing him. Again. And again.

Good movie overall, just increased its ratings from 7 to 8/10.

People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs

[–] AudiSpeed 9 years ago

It's been a while since I've last watched the movie, but I'll share my two cents (thanks for the invite ☺)

1. Why did Kathryn feel like she knew Cole even though Cole was the one who experienced the airport scene in his childhood, not her?

My thoughts are that it's the old trope fate/destiny, or possibly the human experience transcending the physical universe. Hell, even Interstellar took a stab at this with "love transcends our experiences/existence... The 5th dimensional beings needed us to locate the right places in time through the emotion of love.". In the other thread http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114746/board/nest/216794079?d=224212549#2 24212549 I discussed Einstein's block time, which considers the timeline to be static and unalterable once events have been dictated (this doesn't negate free will, etc, it only implies that what happened has always happened. However, Einstein's block time is only a theory and there are many theories--one such is branch time which would mean that changes to the timeline branch off into other timelines. Therefore, your interpretation that

Are they hinting at the idea that she might remember past loops or something

is still a quite valid interpretation. But overall, I took it to mean that there is some human connection that transcends time and our experiences. She was fated/destined to love Cole, and thus, they always shared a connection even when they could not have logically had one. EDIT: Another thread on here mentioned that he was in the WWI photograph and that she may have had a subconscious recollection of him from that picture--learn something new every day!

2. How did the scientists in the future deduce from Cole's last phone call that Dr. Peters was the one behind everything

My take on this is that they had already gathered enough clues from Cole's mission to finally zero in on the final subject. While not shown how they did it, we know they were already on to the lab and that the scientist was an employee there. But this is a good question, and I don't have an exact answer.

Good movie overall, just increased its ratings from 7 to 8/10.

Honestly, this is one of my favorite movies of all time and I rate it a 10/10. Even Terry Gilliam's set design to use retro elements for the future, means that the time travel elements don't age as the film gets older (it retains it's "rewatchability" and doesn't feel dated). One of my favorite scenes is where Brad Pitt's character is ranting to Cole in the insane asylum while the cartoon noises play in the background (genius). I think it is par excellence of the time travel genre. Another great time travel film is Timecrimes (spanish). IMO Not as good, but still very good.

Cheers.

[–] Heat014 9 years ago

The answer to the first question is simple, is she had pictures from World War One up on her wall. He was in one those pictures remember after he go shot. It was a picture of him and Jose.

[–] cassbtt 9 years ago

2. How did the scientists in the future deduce from Cole's last phone call that Dr. Peters was the one behind everything

My take on this is that they had already gathered enough clues from Cole's mission to finally zero in on the final subject. While not shown how they did it, we know they were already on to the lab and that the scientist was an employee there. But this is a good question, and I don't have an exact answer.

My oft-stated thoughts on this is that there's lots we didn't see. While we're dwelling in the story of 1996, those guys in the future were sending back all sorts of time travelers (in adventures that we didn't see). It might be interesting to know what happened in those, but the rule of storytelling is to tell the "best story", and I think they did that here.

However, it's one difference between a 2 hour movie and a 13+ hour TV show. The film is over quickly but still has to tell the story, so a lot has to be left to the imagination to contemplate possibilities or the intellect to figure out probabilities.

Check out the "making of" documentary, a full hour and a half on-line and a wonderful companion to the film. Classic bits include "how much to put in, will we lose the audience?":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN5XoI_BzW4

Fan Fic "12 Monkeys" Trilogy of Sequels (not remakes)
www.tempesta-tormenta.ca

[–] artistathome 9 years ago

Old man from the future said they had a way to see everything. So they c9ould see and hear everything Cole did. Just because he removed a tooth does not mean he didn't have a chip someplace else too.

Kathryn deduced it from the pic in the paper after she saw the guy who bumped into her.
She remembered him from his rantings at her book signing.

The question of how the woman on the plane Knew who Dr Peters was will never be fully answered.
But knowing that it was someone besides Twelve Monkeys led future scientists to speculate who would have had the virus. It wouldn't be too hard to figure it out...
They could read newspapers too.

There is a lot you have to reflect back on that the director KNOWS, but perhaps the viewer doesn't remember everything.