MovieChat Forums > 12 Monkeys (1996) Discussion > I don't understand this movie

I don't understand this movie

posted 10 years ago by negativeions101
7 replies | jump to latest

I just saw this for the first time. I don't understand the point of this. If everything is going to happen regardless of what they do, what is the point in getting information? What is the point of doing anything? What is the movie saying? That you can't change the past?

Also, I don't understand why, at the end, the woman who was previously on the team of scientists that sent Bruce Willis's character back, now on the plane socializing with the supposed virus terrorist. How does this *beep* make sense?

I guess maybe it's supposed to be kind of surrealist with many things that don't make sense/are left unexplained. I guess structurally it's ok. Well, I mean it bookends. But.. as surrealism, I wasn't feeling it. At all. I'd rather watch Mulholland drive in a second. Not a huge fan of Terry Gilliam's directing either.

[–] greg-233 10 years ago

"What is the movie saying? That you can't change the past?"

That's EXACTLY what the movie is saying. The only reason the scientists sent Cole back in time was to locate the source of the virus in its pure form, before it mutated. The scientists needed a sample of the original virus strain so they could study it, understand how and why it mutated, and then make a cure so they wouldn't have to keep living underground. They didn't realise that sending "volunteer" time travellers into the past was what had caused the trouble in the first place. ("Careless talk costs lives", as the saying goes.)

"Also, I don't understand why, at the end, the woman who was previously on the team of scientists that sent Bruce Willis's character back, now on the plane socializing with the supposed virus terrorist. How does this *beep* make sense?"

The scientist was sent back to get a sample of the virus once they knew who was responsible. She shakes the man's hand when she introduces herself as "Jones". She wasn't really in insurance, that was her cover story.

[–] Pearljammer910 10 years ago

"What is the movie saying? That you can't change the past?"

That's EXACTLY what the movie is saying. The only reason the scientists sent Cole back in time was to locate the source of the virus in its pure form, before it mutated. The scientists needed a sample of the original virus strain so they could study it, understand how and why it mutated, and then make a cure so they wouldn't have to keep living underground. They didn't realise that sending "volunteer" time travellers into the past was what had caused the trouble in the first place. ("Careless talk costs lives", as the saying goes.)

So you're saying that the message of the movie is that you can't change the past but then say that sending volunteer time travelers into the past is what caused the trouble....Thus...Changing the past.

[–] greg-233 10 years ago

"So you're saying that the message of the movie is that you can't change the past but then say that sending volunteer time travelers into the past is what caused the trouble....Thus...Changing the past."

Not at all. The past played out the way it always played out. It's just that the past happened to have time travellers scattered through it - a result of faulty technology that had sent people to the wrong years. There was never an "original past" without time travellers in it.

One of the volunteers had ended up in 14th century England, near Stonehenge, warning of a pestilence that would nearly wipe out the human race in 600 years. As far as the people he spoke to were concerned, this man was simply another prophet of doom, not a time traveller from the 21st century. Another volunteer (Jose) ended up in World War One. While recovering from wounds in a hospital, he claimed that he came from the future and was looking for a pure germ that would wipe mankind off the face of the earth starting in the year 1996. Another volunteer (James Cole) ended up in 1990. After being arrested and put in a mental institution, he said he was gathering information about a virus that would kill 5 billion people in 1996-97.

These time travellers provided material for Dr. Railly's 1996 lecture about apocalyptic visions, which happened to have been attended by the man who would go on to steal a virus from a lab and spread it around the world, killing 5 billion people. The scientists in the future hadn't changed the pattern of the past by sending back time travellers. They were, without being aware of it, simply putting the pieces in place that had formed the same pattern all along.

[–] cassbtt 10 years ago

Not at all. The past played out the way it always played out...

Expert analysis.

They were, without being aware of it, simply putting the pieces in place that had formed the same pattern all along

You're an old pro here, even more than I am, but I'd suggest there's a chance that the scientists had it all figured out, in some cases even to the next moves that were necessary to "make the past happen".

That's where this gets a little quirky.

But, since they also understand there's no changing things, including and especially where they (the scientists in their grim environment) are now, it also means almost anything goes.

Again, a bit quirky.

As I went on from my fan fic sequels in 2008 to write four of my own time travel stories, I frequently wrestled with this paradox.

Links to "Twelve Monkeys" Pages
www.tempesta-tormenta.ca

[–] greg-233 10 years ago

The voice in Cole's head said "You're lucky you didn't end up in ancient Egypt."

It would have been ironic if one of those volunteers had mistakenly arrived in the Middle East about 2000 years ago, and got themselves crucified. Then the body would mysteriously disappear from the tomb...

Something like that actually happened in Michael Moorcock's time travel book Behold the Man.

[–] Sunikota 10 years ago

I thought the entire plot was pretty straight forward.
Maybe give it a second viewing.

It was told a couple of times in the movie that they did not intend to change the past, but just to find a cure.
Also, "Jones" the insurance woman was trying to be buddies with the crazy terrorist so that she could maybe finally get a sample of the virus in pure form which is in the suit case.

[–] Sussexfilmlad 9 years ago

I think the key word is 'insurance' - she is the insurance against Cole's failure.