Why live underground?


Forgetting about all of the time-travel stuff, I'm curious about the initial premise: Only a fraction of people are immune and the virus kills the five billion others. Fair enough. But since all of the survivors are already immune, why go to the effort of moving underground?

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"But since all of the survivors are already immune, why go to the effort of moving underground?"

How the survivors got together and moved underground can only be left to speculation. Perhaps the survivors who were immune to the "original" virus went underground before it mutated into a form they weren't immune to?

It's possible the underground complex was built before the virus was released and was intended to be used as a fallout shelter. The animals on the surface can roam around freely. Even though they're not affected by the deadlier form of the virus, they may be carrying it.

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But since all of the survivors are already immune
Who says?

The place they live in appears to be air-tight, given all the precautions Cole has to go through coming and going outside. Not to mention, why bother even going out in biohazard gear if he's "already immune".

I'd say these survivors were just the lucky ones that hid in this and a few other places before they got infected, by the original or any mutation.

I bet there were some interesting untold stories of the infection getting inside. This bug was so deadly precisely because it gnawed away at you for two weeks before showing any signs. I'd imagine that, in the early days, entire "safe communities" like this were wiped out by a single infected person who got inside.

The stakes are so incredibly high in this story. It may very well be a dark comedy, but like Dr. Strangelove, which also talked about people hiding in mine shafts to avoid "The Doomsday Machine" bomb, it's about the end of the world, effectively.

Amazing movie. Gotta watch it again. Been a couple of years now.

Links to "Twelve Monkeys" Pages
www.tempesta-tormenta.ca

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[deleted]

Who says?

I do. It would take time to build all of that stuff which they wouldn't have if people were dying off quickly. That means that the people who did build the shelter would have had to have been immune.

Furthermore, being under the surface isn't going to protect one from airborne infection any better than any sort of construction that could been build much faster and cheaply above ground.

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I do. It would take time to build all of that stuff which they wouldn't have if people were dying off quickly. That means that the people who did build the shelter would have had to have been immune.


Your conclusion is the result of some pretty spurious reasoning and is predicated on both a fundamental flaw in logic as well as a lack of regard for some petty obvious data points which are evident quite early in the film.

At *no* point does the film indicate that the survivors are immune to the virus. In fact, all of the evidence we see early on in the film quite clearly indicates otherwise. As someone else pointed out, the film's protagonist, James Cole, is outfitted and equipped with a pressurized biohazard hazmat suit at the beginning of the film for his mission to the surface to collect samples. Also, if one listens to the instructions being given to him while he is "suiting up", we can hear a taped voice detailing what sounds like a series of safety protocols, the purpose of which is to protect him from contaminating himself and bringing it back into the facility upon his return. In fact, the voice in the recording quite clearly states that if his suit is in any way compromised while he is on the surface, he will not be allowed back in. Furthermore, he exits the facility by way of an airlock where over-pressure is clearly being used to mitigate the possibility of any airborne pathogens from contaminating the facility. On Mr. Cole's return he undergoes a series of decontamination procedures and submits blood samples. Again a taped voice in the background mentions that any evidence of exposure to germs will result in his being denied access to the rest of the population. Following this process, he is eventually "cleared from quarantine" and is readmitted to the facility.

So, I am not sure which "stuff" it is to which you are referring, but my guess is that the underground facility in which the population is living was some sort of preexisting underground civil defense shelter/bunker. Various levels of government in most western countries have these sorts of facilities in place for just the sort of situation described in this movie.

Furthermore, being under the surface isn't going to protect one from airborne infection any better than any sort of construction that could been build much faster and cheaply above ground.


Underground bunkers actually make excellent places in which to survive any sort of NBC (Nuclear/Biological/Chemical) incidents, far superior to freestanding structures, for a host of reasons, the primary one being that it gives those who are holed up in it very well defined points of control in terms of restricting access to the facility. This holds true for restricting both large biological threats (Bad People) as well as microscopic ones, such as your conventional nasty biota (through air filtration, maintaining positive air pressure, etc). In a freestanding structure, breaches can occur any any point in the external perimeter which can make securing the thing an absolute nightmare and prohibitively difficult, perhaps unrealistically so. This also holds true for defending the facility against attack when society and rule of law break down. Furthermore, with regard to airborne pathogens, people are often under the misconception that this means that the air is just teeming with virulent germs of viruses, which is not the case. These sorts of pathogen still require a vector in order to spread, they just do so via the air, usually in the form of an aerosolized excretion ejected from the source vector (think a sneeze or cough). In addition to the obvious route of direct transmission in this scenario (breathing in the excretion) it can also settle on objects in the environment which then may be touched and later ingested via the mouth or a mucous membrane. So, in short, we do not have clouds of nasty germs blowing around through the air as some might imagine. The long and the short of it is this, bunkers Good, buildings Bad.

As someone else has already mentioned, Terry Gilliam has given us a great setting here with the potential for many, many great story-lines and characters. I just hope that the television show can live up to the promise.

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In the first hand 12 monkeys ist a quite symbolic movie. So take living in the underground not literally and look out for the wider sense.

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For every virus out there, there will always be 1% of the population immune to that particular virus.
But that's only for that 1%, but what about future generation(s)?
I assumed that living in an airtight underground facility as a whole (together with the 1%) was to safeguard the rest of the future generation, at least until a cure is found.

Throughout the show, they have shown us that they had no idea what the virus was, or who started it. But the only flaw from the show, was why the surviving scientists didn't get a blood sample from the dying people and create a cure by using the blood of the 1%.

But then on second thoughts, they did mention many times that they need the virus in pure form.

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Living underground seems to be a required plot device for most post-apocalyptic/dystopian movie - Terminator, Matrix, Demolition Man, Logan's Run, Planet of the Apes....



Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

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Pre-existing facility is the only logical explanation.

...then whoa, differences...

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`Forgetting about all of the time-travel stuff, I'm curious about the initial premise: Only a fraction of people are immune and the virus kills the five billion others. Fair enough. But since all of the survivors are already immune, why go to the effort of moving underground?`

Obviously some people were immune to the original virus. However, it was stated that they wanted to get an ´original´ sample prior to the mutation of the virus which the people werent resistant to.

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My thoughts were that they were afraid they wouldn't be immune to any mutations that may develop in the wider world and so isolated themselves from the world completely, and/or they were reproducing and their children may have no immunity at all.

Obviously some people were immune to the original virus. However, it was stated that they wanted to get an ´original´ sample prior to the mutation of the virus which the people werent resistant to.
I assume you're asking 'why do they want the original if they're immune to it(?)'.

If so I maybe it's easy to have the base model to experiment with or something sciencey like that? Or perhaps they are all carriers of the original and want to at least be able to immunise their offspring against it. I'm just stabbing in the dark lol.

...then whoa, differences...

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If they're immune to the original, then the "sciencey" thing about that is it typically passes to their children. However, that immunity may not be transferable to the rest of humanity, via transfusions or extracting the antibodies or whatever from their system.

This latter proposal is called passive immunity, and is typically temporary, if it works at all, vs. active immunity, in which somebody survives a bug attack and their body's immune system develops permanent or "active" and ongoing protection.

Anyway, besides immunity inheritance (passing to your children), being immune means that the virus may be/is in their body, and they can get it that way. It's floating around in there.

Of course, while it is, it's not making them sick because... they're immune, or so the theory goes.

But why then would they then need the original virus?

In that regard, I've never quite understood the logic of needing that source bug.

Unless... they are immune to one or more of the mutations that happened quickly in early 1996. Perhaps it was some variation that wasn't fatal to everybody it came in contact with.

In that case, they would still be very interested in the source bug, indeed!

(I had to do all this sort of research in 2008 when I wrote some fan fic sequels of this amazing flick)

My old 12 Monkeys links page:
http://www.stevegarry.ca/tempesta-tormenta

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