Contrary to what Mr. Loach's film would have you believe, the vast majority of those in the International Brigades were afiliated with their respective Communist Parties, and thus bad old Stalinists. The FAI and the POUM, with their insistence and burning churches, raping nuns, and being oh-so-rrrevolutionary COST Republican Spain the Civil War and aided Franco's fascist victory.
shareWould these be in any way related to the nuns that the german army were raping during WW1? Whilst, of course, crucifying babies on church doors. Blimey, why is it that nuns are always the first casualty of war? Methinks you may have over simplified the reasons why the Spanich republic lost the war. Or, maybe, you have just sold your soul?
sharePersonally, I couldn't care less about nuns. However, convents were looted, burned and pillaged by the FAI -- when FAI militias where desperately needed at the front. The FAI was also always very eager to round up and shoot "rightists." This isn't even mentioning the May '37 events in Barcelona which caused Republican troops to have to be diverted from the front to put down the FAI/POUM rising.
As for selling my soul, I've had it up on Ebay for years -- no takers.
"The FAI were always very eager to round up and shoot 'rightists'" , well that makes a refreshing change from rounding up and shooting your own class. There never was a FAI/POUM uprising in Barcelona in 1937. There was, however, a defence of working class gains in the face of Stalinist counter attacks, unfortunately sold out by the leaders of the CNT. I'm afraid you've still missed the whole point of the film, and of the war. The war was nothing without the revolution; the revolution was made by the people, whether CNT, POUM or miners from South Wales. Still, always trust a Stalinist to miss the point. At Cable Street in 1936 the CPGB were calling for a march in defence of Spain, the rest of the working class were calling for mass mobilisation to defeat Mosley's Blackshirts, with days to spare the CPGB changed their demonstration to catch up with the real political vanguard, The war in Spain was lost, not because of the POUM or the CNT, even though their leaders were useless compromisers, but because of the obscene tactics of the Stalinist Soviet Union. The very same shoddy outfit who invaded Poland in 1939, left the Warsaw uprising to be stifled in 1944, who killed thousands in Hungary in 1956, who constructed such a perfect paradise in East Berlin that they had to build a wall to keep others out. Yes, such a great legacy. We had it all, on a plate, and you gave it away. Thanks comrade.
shareDon't thank me, thank Joseph Vissarionovich that you're not living in Greater Germania right now. Although, living under the "Pax Americana" isn't much better -- we can agree on that I trust.
Still, back to the Spanish Civil War: The Republic desperately needed an organized, disciplined, 'professional' army in order to win. All the FAI/POUM offered, to be generous, was enthusiasm. Sorry, that ain't enough. The FAI/POUM split the anti-fascist front at the exact moment when utmost unity was required for victory. That makes them objectively counterrevolutionary. I'll geant individual FAI/POUM members the sincerity of their beliefs: however, their organizational actions (read betrayal) was tailor-made to ensure Franco's victory.
Oh, Paulchitty - you've gone and spoilt it!
I really enjoyed the fact that no-one replied to sad-boy Dr Faustus' rubbish posts.
Don't encourage him!
Sorry to disappoint you, on several counts, Daniel-La-Poubelle. I need no encouragement to defend the revolutionary and heroic struggle of the Spanish Communists against Fascism AND counter-revolutionary traitors such as the FAI and POUM. And, I'm not at all sad. Quite happy, actually, to see that history has vindicated the PCE and condemned the trots and anarcho-farts to the rubbish bin where they belong.
shareDo you know that German crucifying babies on church doors was an invention (one of many) of wartime propaganda?
shareYou know what I smell? I smell stalinist lies.
shareThis debate is increasingly resembling two bald men fighting over a comb.
shareYep! You definitely DO smell.
shareStalinist criticism at its best. If only Stalin let everyone off in the 1936 Moscow Trials by saying, "You definitely DO smell".
You dickhead.
Force is the midwife of every old society pregnant with a new one
But they DID smell: They smelled of treason and fascism.
You buttmuncher.
Lets see we have a reformist named Stalin on one hand who allied with Hitler and later became part of the Allied forces with Britain and the USA. On the other hand we have the brave anarchists who weren't fighting with capitalists but instead against capitalists. Now who betrayed the revolution? The ones fighting with or against the capitalists?
shareLet's see. . . there are two possibilities. . .
1. Every single revolution in the history of the world from the French Revolution on has been betrayed by nasty old "bureaucrats"
0r
2. The anarchists are mistaken.
Huh? So how do you feel supporting a statist who betrayed communism and the proletariat revolution?
shareI feel very good defending a revolutionary who resolutely fought against revisionism and counter-revolution, defeated fascism, and helped spread the proletarian revolution around the world.
shareThe closest the world has been to true communism was in Catalonia and Stalin squashed it. Stalinists are pathetic....... worse than Nazi's.
shareYou're WORSE than a Nazi. You're a hypocrite. You talk about the mass killing of class enemies, yet a adopt a high moral tone to accuse others of the same thing you advocate.
shareClass enemies? You mean enemies of the proles? Yes I think that killing the enemies of the workers were justified. You on the other hand believe that the workers are the enemy. At least that's what it boils down to when supporting what Stalin did.
shareNo, I believe that spoiled petty-bourgeois brats playing at being oh-so-rrrevolutionary are the enemies of the working class. Starbucks anarchists and cafe radicals, such as yourself.
shareWow.... how did you know exactly who I am? That's right I am part of the Starbucks Brigade of anarcho-capitalists...... you got me :\
shareNot yet. . . but sure we will one day. The cyber-cheka never fails!
shareWow, so interesting you posted twice!
shareSo interesting it SHOULD have been posted 1,000 times. Alas, the dual posting was due to the IMDb.
shareI'm watching the movie now. I think overall it's an entertaining movie but yeah it's Trotskyist nonsense. The fact is that without the "Stalinists", the republic would have lost the war almost as soon as it began. It was the Soviet Union, led by Stalin, which was the only country in the world that was sending significant support to the republic. And the Spanish Communist Party was the only leftist force in the conflict that had a strategy that could actually win the war. The Trotskyists and anarchists were ultra-leftist idealists who put abstract ideology and theory ahead of the concrete facts on the ground. The Spanish Communist Party and the Soviets understood that the republic was fighting a massive, well-armed, organized armed force which was heavily supported by the fascist powers and the bourgeoisie of non-fascist countries, and therefore if the republic was going to have a chance in hell of winning, it needed an organized armed force of its own with a centralized command. The militia system of the POUM and anarchists was ineffective. The odds were always against the republic and it may never have really been able to win either way, with almost the entire world arrayed against it, but if it weren't for the big bad "Stalinists", it would surely have fallen a hell of a lot sooner than it did. And let's not forget that it was Stalin who finally defeated the fascist alliance and brought socialism to half of Europe in the end.
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