Just watched this movie for the first time and mostly enjoyed it. I'm puzzled as to wht Jimmy killed his friend at the end (he comes out of the bowling alley) ?
Probably I've missed something so sorry if it's a dumb question!
Ok, the man with the plan put a hit out on all of Jimmy's crew, including Jimmy. The MWTP also had an assassination attempt at one point, hence the reason he is in wheel chair. Jimmy wanted to hurt TMWTP, or kill him. Since TMWTP's wife was killed (Cynthia), all he had left in the world was his idiot son Bernard. So Jimmy knew killing Bernard would be like a final "Feck You" to TMWTP.
shareThanks for clearing that up...my mistake - I didn't realise that Bernard was TMWTP's son. Now I think back I can see that of course it was, and that's why he thew his cap to the guard at the door....thanks again.
shareHow on earth did you watch this movie and not realize that Bernard was TMWTP's son? That's the whole plot...otherwise nothing makes sense...like the job to begin with....??????
shareI think it was a bit more subtle than that. Jimmy thought that The Man with the Plan would set out to punish him by slaughtering everyone he cared about, because he knew that Jimmy wasn't scared of the Man... or dying. That would ultimately involve the girl. Remember they knew about her.
Jimmy had to find a way to make the Man KILL HIM. The only way he knew to do that was to kill dumb Bernard. That would make the Man lose it big time and so kill Jimmy. Once Jimmy was dead the Man would not pursue anyone else, because with Jimmy dead: Who gives a flick? Jimmy was essentially giving his life for the girl.
Of course at the end Jimmy was going to be killed anyhow... but he did not know that. Irony upon irony. Evil begets evil. Dumb Bernard died for nothing. The Man reaped what he sowed.
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Nah, watch the movie again, and see what the old guy at the end had to say about it. He said something like "Jimmy killed the man with the plan, but he didn't have to scale no walls, or wrestle with no goons to do it, he just took Bernard for a ride". It wasn't about saving the girl, it was about making it so TMWTP never shed a drop of blood again.
shareYeah, you may be right. Maybe he did kill Bernard purely to hurt the Man. My problem with that scenario is three-fold.
First, it makes Jimmy the Saint a real mean s.o.b., to murder Bernard, (who he appears to like in a sad kinda way), just to get back at Bernard's father.
Second, Jimmy looks really upset when he stabbed and levered Bernard's life away with the knife. If he was just a cold-stone killer why would he have any regrets?
Third, why throw Bernard's hat to The Man's bodyguard? Why announce what he had done? He wanted to leave no doubt about who was responsible. He wanted to die for it.
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1. Jimmy was a man put into a situation beyond his control. He lost control of everything he knew as soon as TMWTP had him do an "action".
2. Jimmy wasn't really "friends" with Bernard but felt sorry for him since he was such a psycho. Jimmy didn't want to kill Bernard, but he knew that he had to, it would be the only way to strike back at TMWTP.
3. Jimmy WANTED EVERYONE to know that he killed Bernard, thats why he threw the hat at Elliot. He wanted to know that they may kill him, but he got the last laugh so to say.
you guys are missing an important point...
TMWTP had already called in the brothers from New Mexico.. Jimmy was the last one left... his death sentence was handed down long before he killed bernard...
but you are right.. it was the last way to get back at him, he took the only thing he had left of his family and destroyed his will to kill...
and jimmy probably felt bad because he wasnt a killer, but it's not like he murdered a nun, this guy was trying to grab a little kid at the beginning of the movie fer christs sake...
"Its a brain thing with Bernard not a balls thing".
shareThe bottom line is, Bernard was a dangerous pedophile without the sense to know what he was doing wrong, and with a psychotic gangster father who would be there to bail him out. Being a man with a heart, Jimmy might have felt bad about killing anyone, especially his mentally deficient semi-friend, but essentially, what he was doing was putting a dangerous rabid dog to sleep.
Jimmy was also a proud man who wouldn't beg for his life, and who had the courage and conviction to walk into a business meeting and beat up a rapist up, in front of two dozen of said rapist's associates. Though he knew his own death was inevitable, Jimmy was not about to be taken out without bringing his killer down with him.
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Yes. He killed Bernard to effectively kill TMWtP in a spiritual sense - thus, making whatever time remained for him more void than it already was. It was a more brutal action than killing The Man himself, as he now has to suffer the rest of his miserable life without anything.
It also puts the weight of his death's son upon him. Because the original shake-down of his ex-girlfriend's boyfriend and the subsequent murders were all about Bernie, and vocally so - it is The Man's fault for his son getting involved.
And, lets not forget that Bernie was not a saint, either. There is no reason for sympathy for him. He beat a man to death, attempted to pummel a small girl, ect. because of his loss. Jimmy killed him for the above reasons, on top of the fact that he was increasingly dangerous; liable to commit the same atrocities as his father in the future.
Also, Jimmy killing Bernard is a metaphorical "buckwheats" to the TMWTP. Now, TMWTP will suffer a long agonizing "death," having to "die" the rest of his life without his son.
shareAgreed- If you recall during the conversation that the group had after the botched "action", "Ever since the Man got shot, he's had so much security around him, it'd be easier to whack the President". Jimmy figured out that there was one way to hurt the Man, and that was to take away the only part of his beloved Cynthia that remained- Bernard.
The ultimate buckwheats hit? Quite possibly. After all, Jimmy was dead long before he took Bernard for a ride...... he just hadn't fallen over yet.
In my opinion Jimmy really did hold his head up with pride.
When Bernard and Jimmy were in the restaurant Bernard said to him how noble he was, then told him how he would rather his ex-girlfriends happiness than his own.
In my opinion Jimmy really was a noble man and took Bernard for his word, killing him - rather than having to disclose to him the fact his ex-girlfriend, the single person he cares about, is dead.
Jimmy was a Saint
I say that Jimmy knew he was dead, so why not go out with a bang
shareWell its the fact that Bernard was the reason everyone was dead. Bernard was TMWTP's only son, and the only thing that TMWTP had to remind him of Cynthia (his wife). So by Jimmy killing Bernard, he knew that it would in turn kill TMWTP.
shareNot only go out with a bang, he was able to remove a child molester from the world at the same time. I was pleasantly surprised to see this twist occur.
I have to agree with Putter b here. This is just a classy but subtle film. It would be on my top 5 list for sure
sharei think killing Bernard was revenge for tmwtp killing William forsythe after he gave his word.
shareThis all being said, didn't Jenny McCarthy look fine?!!!
shareHe also killed him to safe him. Remember that bernie told Jimmy that if only she could say it to his face that is was over, he could finally go on with his life. But Jimmy knew that would never happend because she was dead.
Sorry for bad english, im danish!
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So the movie tells us that by killing his son, Jimmy stopped TMWTP ever killing anyone again? Because he was so heartbroken? Riiight, yeah that's what would happen no doubt.... or maybe Walken (sorry, can't type Man With The Plan twice) would say 'so you thought that would get me? I'm just going to kill everyone you ever knew that's what I'm gonna do.'
But the film doesn't make sense anyway. They all should've just left town immediately as told. So they died, cos they were idiots, good.
It's also about legacy.
By killing bernard Jimmy makes sure TMWTP has no more family (and no more chance to make new family because of his *ahem* condition). Thus, when TMWTP would die, all would just fall to pieces. His estate, his power, everything.
And despite the fact that Jimmy actually dies, he has that much as an advantage over TMWTP. By impregnating Lucinda he ensures that he does have a legacy. He lives on. TMWTP won't.
(SPOILERS) Jimmy was going to die because after he begged TMWTP for the life of his girlfriend TMWTP ordered a buckwheat on him as well. Jimmy wanted to hurt TMWTP but couldn't do it himself because he was so well guarded. TMWTP was just a talking head as Critical Bill pointed out, he was respected and feared based on his past alone. I believe that when Jimmy killed TMWTP's son who was protected by those two hired goons, he turned TMWTP's organization against itself. Those two goons messed up but do you think they would let TMWTP call buckwheats on them as well. Jimmy may not have known the end result but by killing TMWTP's son he upset his organization. It is up to the viewer to determine the extent of damage. But it is said during the final boat drinks dream that Jimmy killed TMWTP, that may have been a figurative statement though.
shareHe did it cuz Bernard was just bad news all around. He couldnt get over his woman, started beating people, molesting kids (or trying to) and his old man loved him so much he'd do anything for him. Including ordering beatings on innocent men and the deaths of men he employed.
The only truly innocent person in this whole film was the girlfriend, Meg. And she has no real spoken lines, just muffled garbage and screams. HER story is actually quite sad, but because of the nature of the film, we never see it.
I thought that the scene ruined the movie, almost, making dude completely heartless and a little bitch, killing a dude just to get back at his dad, or killing him because he felt like his life was over because dude tried to touch a little girl.... I mean, guy already killed dude's love... now he's killing dude? Pretty bad.
but then it shows him crying about it and I think he just felt like he had to do it since HE was already "dead"... he had to do something in retaliation... so yeh. No other choice. No easy answers. I like that scene now.
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Shuji Terayama forever.
I'm going with 'a little of all the above'. TMWTP's bloodline needed ending and Bernard was the last of it. If he'd been allowed to live he could have impregnated someone meaning that TMWTP would have effectively 'lived on'. Jimmy accepted his fate and impregnated his hooker friend to ENSURE that his bllodline would continue.
The only thing that surprises me about this place is that I continue to be surprised...
The name of the movie........killing "MoonCalf" is a thing to do when your "dead".
Who said anything about slicing you up,man? I just wanted to carve a little z on your forehead.