Lack of Climax?


This is an interesting and thought-provoking film, with great visuals and performances. But something about it just didn't work for me--this despite the fact that I usually welcome ambiguity and slow pacing in movies. I've been trying to put my finger on the problem, and I think I may have found at least a part of it. So far as I can tell, this film has no climax. Does anyone else feel the same way? Is there something I missed?

If I were an emoticon I'd probably be winking right now...

reply

So if Carol were not inorgasmic, her condition would improve?

reply

Not only does this move lack a climax, it lacks a point of view. It's like a documentary, following the woman with an imaginary disease as she attempts to find relief. It's very well done, but it's not a documentary so you expect something more. I've known people who thought they were chemically sensitive and they're just like that. You can't talk then out of it. The guru/leader of the refuge camp is telling them they're making themselves sick, but they don't seem to get it. Instead, the idea veers off into some mushy sentiment of "love yourself." At the end the Julianne Moore character appears to be trapped in a narcissistic bubble, not getting worse, not getting better. The igloo symbolizes her bubble of self-absorbsion. In which case it really is a kind of horror movie, ending in an austere white antiseptic hell of perpetual self-reference. This same material could be used for some wicked comedy, but in this case the irony is so subtle as to be barely detectable.

Ken

reply

What makes you think there *aren't* chemically sensitive people, or that the character in the movie wasn't one? I'm not saying there was nothing else wrong with her life, but she had several real physical attacks out of the blue. Even if it did all originate with her mental distress, that doesn't mean chemical sensitivity isn't real in the real world. As for the "guru", I thought he was a real a-hole. He revealed himself to be domineering and dismissive. And look at that mansion he lived in (that wasn't shown for nothing). His statements that people only get sick because they make it happen is absurd, and his idea of destroying all "negative thoughts" is unfair and unhelpful. He was no one I'd want to follow.

_ _ _

"Why spend your life making someone else's dreams come true?"

-- Ed Wood, the movie

reply

About the Wrenwood founder - I agree he's a walking contradiction. He gives talks about letting go of shame and guilt, and in the next breath condemns a dying and then dead man for causing his own disease. If we are all the cause of our own disease, then why has he gone to extreme pains to create a chemical-free zone around himself? Wrenwood (and particuarly Claire, the director) have been created for his own benefit, but even he doesn't know what he really wants. It's also no accident that poor old Lester keeps popping up and hobbling about painfully. Lester might genuinely be chemically sensitive but beyond the chemical-free zone he's getting precious little help at Wrenwood and might actually be being driven completely bats by Dunning's philosophy.

reply

Most of the 'chemically sensitive' people I've seen are hysterics--their symptoms are always diffuse, non-specific and entirely self-reported, not objectively observable. The very idea of 'chemical sensitivity' is amorphous because everything in the world is 'chemicals,' either as elements or as compounds. I can understand that some people can be allergic to specific substances, but those 'sensitive' people are allergic to everything, and by definition, nothing. Time has revealed a lot. In the last 6 years 'chemical sensitivity' has fallen out of favor as a trendy imaginary disease to be replaced by 'electro-sensitivity' and 'chronic lyme disease' among others.

reply

That is the only intelligent thing I have read on this board about the film. When the revolution comes and I acheive my ideal of fascist power, you will not be flogged with the rest of them. Well done.

reply

"That is the only intelligent thing I have read on this board about the film."


Should we assume that this is the only thread on this board you've read then? :)

Because there's been lots really intelligent and insightful comments/posts around here over the past few years.....

reply

"He graduated with a degree in Art & Semiotics from Brown and the Semiotics department at the time was where all the film courses were offered so he had definitely absorbed a lot of film theory at the time. (The intro film course was called "Cinematic Coding and Narrativity," which a lot of people on campus called "Clapping for Credit.")"

That's really interesting to know, and understandable when you watch his films. Ignoring the 2001 inspired tone of Safe, the entire thing just oozes symbolism and deft scripting. He's one of the few directors I can watch over and over again, a lot of the fun being in reading the semiotics.


"Anyhow, during the Q&A, Haynes mentioned that his film courses had led him to be very critical of what he called "heterosexual closure." In plain English, this is where you end the film at exactly the point where the male and female lead characters are about to pair off/get married/have sex etc. etc. As a gay director, I think he liked playing with the idea of denying this form of closure to the audience."

Wow, I never new he was gay. It's really interesting when you filter his films through this perspective. But regarding the ending, why does a film need closure anyway? It's a beautifully ambiguous ending and for me the highlight of Safe is Julianne talking to herself (us) before the credits.

I doubt Haynes designed the ending to be a statement on Hollywood sexuality and trends. He probably just reverse rationalised this, as artists sometime do. The ambigious ending, at least to me, just seems to flow naturally from the story. Will she get better or won't she? Why do we need to know anyway? The entire story oozes ambiguity and tacking on some false climax wouldn't fit at all.


"Rape is no laughing matter. Unless you're raping a clown."

reply

HANG ON - if there was no climax in the film, what was that heart-stopping moment when Carol fainted in the dry cleaners having a seizure? No-one else found that exciting and climactic?! It's also the catalyst for the third act of the film at Wrenwood.

reply

I actually went to a screening at Brown University where Todd Haynes did a Q&A session about the film Poison. (It would had to have been between 1991 and 1994, because I graduated from Brown in the latter year.) Since the Q&A session was before he had completed Safe, I think it gives some insight into what inspired him in making the later film.

He graduated with a degree in Art & Semiotics from Brown and the Semiotics department at the time was where all the film courses were offered so he had definitely absorbed a lot of film theory at the time. (The intro film course was called "Cinematic Coding and Narrativity," which a lot of people on campus called "Clapping for Credit.")

Anyhow, during the Q&A, Haynes mentioned that his film courses had led him to be very critical of what he called "heterosexual closure." In plain English, this is where you end the film at exactly the point where the male and female lead characters are about to pair off/get married/have sex etc. etc. As a gay director, I think he liked playing with the idea of denying this form of closure to the audience. You can see how he does it in Safe. James LeGros and Julianne Moore walk toward Moore's antiseptic igloo, but LeGros and Moore do not touch each other in the slightest, IIRC. LeGros and Moore part uneventfully and then Moore recites the affirmation about how she loves herself directly into the camera. I guess the point is that Moore is better served by improving her relationship with herself and satisfying her own personal needs, rather than substituting her husband with somebody else (as might have happened in a more conventional "Hollywood" movie). Far From Heaven similarly denies the audience a sense of "heterosexual closure," because the last scene depicts how the racial prejudices of the community ensured that Julianne Moore and Dennis Haysbert could never be together.

Another interesting opinion Haynes expressed in the Q&A was that society paid a lot of attention to Gulf War syndrome, because it was a sickness that primarily affected men, while similarly hard-to-diagnose syndromes suffered by women would be dismissed as hypochondria and hysteria. I suppose that this might have been one of the ideas that inspired him to write and direct Safe.

reply

'I guess the point is that Moore is better served by improving her relationship with herself and satisfying her own personal needs, rather than substituting her husband with somebody else (as might have happened in a more conventional "Hollywood" movie).'

jpenning, I think you've identified one of the most relevant issues in the film (if not the most relevant issue)

nice:)



there is a harmony in our voices that is a comfort if you choose to listen.

reply

[deleted]

The film meticulously creates a world in which a rich American woman freely decides to live alone in an igloo in the desert, to have her air recycled by monstrous contraptions, spouting creepy new age shibboleths into a mirror, and all the while presents her decisions as imminently rational. If this isn't a helluva of a climax I don't understand the meaning of the word.

Nothing left except Clorox bottles and plastic fly swatters with red dots on them!

reply

I have always liked this rather downbeat ending to the film. It isn't a climax in the explosive sense, but it's a helluva culmination just the same, and perfectly in keeping with the cool and detached style of the whole movie.

reply

I thought the movie was very good, but it really could have used a better ending.

reply

'I thought the movie was very good, but it really could have used a better ending.'


I'm just curious..........what do you think would have been a 'better' ending to the film?

Personally, I love the ending as it is. Given many of the comments I've read, I think most people see the ending as being almost unbearably bleak ~ Carol, completely isolated, perhaps more 'lost' than ever..........but I think the ending can be seen as being possibly more ambiguous than that.

Yes, one could definitely read the ending as I've described above, but I also think that the final scene could be an actual 'beginning' for Carol ~ because for the very first time ever, she's actually looking within rather than looking 'outward' for answers (which is why I think that final image of her looking in the mirror is significant)

I'm not sure if anyone else caught this, but with this final image ~ for the first time in a 'mirror' scene ~ we're not seeing a reflection of Carol (unlike earlier scenes in the film, where we always see her relected image and not her 'real' face). This struck me as being potentially significant.

Hmm, I seem to have been babbling...........anyway, I really like the ending as it stands and I can't imagine a more 'appropriate' one ~ an ending that would, say, 'tie things up' better would have felt have felt wrong to me, given the tone of the rest of the film.........but I'm really interested in hearing what others think might have been a 'better' conclusion :)






'I'm in my tree, I'm talking to the Dixie Chicks and they're making me feel better.'

reply

"At the end the Julianne Moore character appears to be trapped in a narcissistic bubble, not getting worse, not getting better." I felt that in the end she was worse than ever. It is the perfect ending.

reply

[deleted]

Lee said: "for the very first time ever, she's actually looking within rather than looking 'outward' for answers "

I think i'm with celr and SheBear on this.
i don't think narcisism is the solution to impoverished relationships with others.

one thing that i got out of the film is how tricky this line is - when am i being self-sacrificing, and when am i just obliterating myself for another's convenience? when am i building myself up, and when am i just becoming obsessed with an aspect of myself at the expense of my relationship with the world beyond me?

my 2cent.

reply

You have to stop hating and being angry. You are responsible for your disease. The world is an evil place and I've stopped listening to the News any more. You must take responsibility and love yourself. It's your responsibility to block out the world and become a narcissist.

Don't notice that you're getting more and more ill. Repeat.

reply

There's an excellent analyis of the film on a Wikipedia link - basically, the director is critical of both Carol's lifestyle, the medical and psychiatrist profession that can't cure her, and the New-Age philosophy that can't cure her either. It's all a bit long-winded, but the crux seems to be: it's her life, her role in society (of lack of one), which is making her ill. The illness gives her a purpose, so she revels in it, but ultimately everyone fails to cure her - and she'll always be ill - until she looks at the wider problem.

reply

"Psychiatrist profession that can`t cure her".

Yeah, actually, the obviously big league head shrinker Carol visited, struck me almost as much a snake oil salesman as that country resort ringleader. Seems that basically all you gotta do in order to impersonate a psychiatrist, is dress sharp, look all wise and earnest and just sit there nodding your head with a sort of a smug condescension, asking some inane questions every now and then. And then write a prescription for some expensive-ass drug so the pill manufacturing industry could keep making its billions.



"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

reply

To me, an ambiguous ending is the most appropriate "ending" for this film. It parallels the plot of the film itself, in that Carol continually seeks, but finds no real answers to her plight. I have a feeling that she will only continue to travel along the same path --- more symptoms, no answers, more treatments, different healers and healing methods --- I really don't think that the compound she was residing in at the end of the movie was her last.



There is no God. Free yourself from the oppression of religion.

reply

What do you mean, no climax? Her "I love you" monologue was one of the most powerful climaxes I have seen in a movie recently.

reply