East German uniforms?



I happen to know a lot about East Germany so it was easy for me to identify most of the uniforms worn in the film as East German uniforms. I also know that british uniforms are not very difficult to find and acquire. Can anyone tell me WHY they would choose East German uniforms over British? Other then the fact that they look similiar to German uniforms of WWII.

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Facism was popular all over Europe in the 1930's.

McKellen is setting RIII in an imaginary Britain in which Facism, represented by McKellen and Buckingham takes power from the more conservative government forces of Hastings.

He's imagining what might have happened if Britain had been serious about facism.

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The black uniforms used later in the film are closely styled on 30s-40s Allgemeine SS uniforms of the Nazi period. Richard's uniform has the collar patches denoting a Gruppenfuhrer (SS rank approximating an Allied Lt General)and Buckingham wears the collar patches of an SS Brigadefuhrer (Maj General). All the others, Catesby etc wear uniforms denoting lesser ranks.

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Close

They are Nazi SS uniforms but Richard's collar tabs denote SS-OberstGruppenFuhrer. A four star general.

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The uniforms of 1930s England are very well known and easily available for theatrical purposes. The director obviously went for a mix rather than faithful rendition but to my mind it did not enhance the credibility to have German uniforms bastardised with British ones. Everyone got the message, that this is England with a fascist twist but I thought this approach fell between the targets. It was just plain confusing to have German soldiers at a British railway station, it gave the impression that there had been a Nazi invasion. Also, why not make the RAF and Navy uniforms true to the real patterns. The RAF uniform looked just stupid with recognisable pilot's wings but with a naval style gold rank trim. It did not add to the drama or the story whereas a realistic approach to uniforms would have made the story more real and threatening.

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They also used Russian T-55 tanks through out the entire movie and German MP40 sub machine guns, so it really was just a big mix of everything.

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[deleted]

Richard III...not Britain may be but certainly England. Still to me it look like lazy costume design and set dressing.

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Lazy costume design? The film received an Oscar nomination for best costume design.

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They weren't "East German", they were actually WW2-era German uniforms. East Germany fashioned their own uniforms which did look very similar to pre-1945 German uniforms. Ironically, because East Germany always claimed not to be the successor state of Nazi Germany...

West German uniforms, on the other hand, were largely different from pre-1945 uniforms.



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Hmmm?

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Actually, it's a mix of East German and Nazi Germany uniforms. Richard, for example, wears the collar patches of a Generaloberst der Waffen SS (three leaves and three pips). However, the bodyguards definitely wear the helmets of the East German Volkspolizei (Vopos).

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They weren't "East German", they were actually WW2-era German uniforms. East Germany fashioned their own uniforms which did look very similar to pre-1945 German uniforms.


It was due to Germans not seeing Wehrmacht uniforms as specifically Nazi, especially as the uniform of the Weimar Republic was almost identical to the Nazi era one. Also the East German uniform is more like the Weimar one as it lacks almost all the Nazi features such as Eagles and Swastikas.

Ironically, because East Germany always claimed not to be the successor state of Nazi Germany...


This was because most of the East German leadership were either in concentration camps or were defectors from Nazi Germany. On the other hand much of West Germany's leadership were Nazi party members and minor officials in the Nazi era.

West German uniforms, on the other hand, were largely different from pre-1945 uniforms.


Except West German police during most of the Cold War looked almost exactly the same as East German police (right down to the colour), and don't get me started on the Luftwaffe uniforms (which are still worn):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/BW_Dienstanzug_Luftwaffe.jpg

http://gowenmilitaria.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/WGUN6.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nFWbOWCLQVQ/T95OorhGRRI/AAAAAAAAAPI/4ATK96uC5IM/s1600/DSCF3095.JPG

Here is the East German Airforce uniform, although recognizably German, is substantially different from the actually Nazi invented Luftwaffe uniform retained (with minor alterations) by West Germany: http://sturm-miltec.com/images/East%20German%20Items/19353200.jpg

https://i.warosu.org/data/fa/img/0094/74/1424398765948.jpg

Here are West German Bundeswehr uniforms, you'll note they are a mix of German and US fashion and equipment, and the standard NATO assault rifle, which is unsurprising as they were an occupied country:

http://www.elbavaro.de/pics/aboutme/privat_bundeswehr.jpg

http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s503/amtibla/013.jpg

http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s503/amtibla/008.jpg

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4598/bwtarn02.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/cb/4a/d5/cb4ad58b9097be6b0e473bee6f3216ba.jpg

And here are East German army uniforms (dress and combat):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/Nva-ehrenwache.jpg

http://www.schifferbooks.com/images/covers/68/9780764343568.jpg

http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq122/mojo00_pics/Gear/EastGerman053.jpg

http://berlinermauer.pl/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/P2116126-kopia.jpg

http://www.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/dsc06287hwbt3lok.jpg

You'll notice that West German dress uniform even includes eagles in the same place as the Nazi uniform, a badge that looks like a Nazi era assault badge, and the same type of wrist band that was in use during the Nazi era (especially by the SS but also by certain Wehrmacht divisions).

The East German dress, you'll notice, does not feature an eagle or the wrist-bands and the combat uniform is even further from the Nazi-era combat uniform. I'd describe it as looking more like the NVA uniform than a 1940s German one.

The "East-Germans-Look-Nazi-but-West-Germans-Don't" is a myth possibly for political reasons; both have continuity from the uniforms of the Nazi, Weimar and even Imperial eras but both also have borrowings from other nations in their respective blocks (the USA and other NATO members for the West and the Warsaw pact nations, especially the USSR, for the East).

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When this play was performed in Shakespeare's day, the actual historical context of the story was only several decades in the past. McKellen's aim in this production was to create a similar effect for the modern audience of presenting this story with an almost 'imaginary' though not impossible historical context from several decades in the past making it historical enough to be objective but modern enough to have a warning from history.

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Actually, I'd have preferred it if the very stereotypical SS uniforms had been replaced with a more "British" influenced fascist style. (Such as they did with the monumental Tower design) Using SS uniforms gives a sense of displacement which doesn't work at this point. ("Oh, now he has turned into a German Nazi??")

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There is a sense of dislocation in space as well as time - it's not geographically 'England' as we know it, because the enemy forces landing on the beaches (which looked like somewhere like Dungeness on the Kent coast to me) are seen looking at the 'Tower of London' about a mile away.

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The film is purposefully wrong, almost to the point of fantasy, it would have made no sense to use actual British uniforms because this place is not supposed to be the actual 1930's England. You also seem to be the only one with a problem with it so maybe it's just you.

http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/attitude/ it is the herm albright

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Next time, read my post before answering. I said nothing about "actual 1930s England".


--
Grammar:
The difference between knowing your sh**
and knowing you're sh**.

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To me the equation is Richard III = Hitler even down to the funny and sinister mustaches. That they speak English is simply an accident of where the play came from but they seem to intend fascism of Germany specifically and less fascism of England before the War. The deliberate German costumes seems to confirm that.

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And you are deeply wrong if you just say "Oh, they actually made a film about HITLER, not an Englishman. Whew!"

This film shows that fascism can happen everywhere, given the right circumstances. It's set in England and it's meant to be England. Everything else would be an easy way out.



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Hmmm?

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No, they didn't make a film about Hitler.

However they did appropriate our knew-jerk response to 1930's jack-booted (yes, there are actual jack-boots) Nazi thugs. It was so heavy-handed and obvious. It was like, "In case you haven't been paying attention, this guy Richard, well, he's not very nice at all." The "evil" black uniforms and banners are thin shortcuts this movie attempts to guide the viewer.

It was kind of insulting and unimaginative, actually.

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East Germany was an authoritarian socialist country not a fascist one. But being Germans they used the same patterns and style as the NAZIs and the Wiemar Repblic did. I think the makers used East German uniforms because they were easier to get than NAZI ones or they copied East German uniforms because they lack the NAZI eagle which would ground this movie in NAZI Germany otherwise, rather than a fascist Britain.

Formerly KingAngantyr

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What is the difference between an authoritarian national socialist regime and a Nazi one? The East German regime was politically rather similar to Hitler's.

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What is the difference between an authoritarian national socialist regime and a Nazi one?


Nothing because Nazism is just National Socialism. However, East Germany was Socialist and not National Socialist.

The East German regime was politically rather similar to Hitler's.


Not really. Both were ''authoritarian'' but exist at two different ends of the political spectrum. And the economic policy of the Nazis was actually more like modern democratic countries such as the US and the UK than East German's, which was a strictly Marxist planned economy - a reasonably successful one that just gets brushed over by the neo-Cold-Warriors of the capitalist west.

Formerly KingAngantyr

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putting aside the fans of Stalinist East Germany (I visited in 1987 the wall was not to keep people out,people looked scared and poor) the book about the making of this film mentions the uniform topic.

If I recall the book Mckellen say that as the films progresses the uniforms and the whole look of the film becomes more and more nazi like.
The Kings boer head logo becomes SS like?

The uniforms in this are mostly East German,East Germany claimed to be the true heir to German progress ,unlike the nazi state and the American dominated West Germany.
So while the West German armed forces and police tried to look non military and un nazi like the East Germans dressed in uniforms that looked German,Weimar/Nazi state,hats,trousers and so on.

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East Germany wasn't Stalinist, that was just Cold War nonsense. And if you think the people of East Germany looked poor in the 80s you should see them now. All hall glorious capitalism.

Also much of the West German uniforms looked about as NAZI as those in East Germany, especially with eagles and cuff titles. The dress uniform of the German airforce to this very day looks VERY Luftwaffe. The current regular grey dress uniform of the Bundeswher is similar to that of NAZI officers, especially when they wear the helmet rather than beret. Though both were emulating the fashion of the Weimar state which is fair enough.

Here are examples of Bundeswehr dress uniforms today:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/40/64/7a/40647a20b63733c6865d8cab6ae82877.jpg

http://www.onalert.gr/image/?w=630&src=/files/Image/aphotos/GERMANY/german-armed-forces-navy.jpg

http://www.salzgitter-aktuell.de/data/Bundeswehr2004/VarelBund2004-16.JPG

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/cb/4a/d5/cb4ad58b9097be6b0e473bee6f3216ba.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/cb/4a/d5/cb4ad58b9097be6b0e473bee6f3216ba.jpg

http://reflectionsofcoldwar.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/west-german-luftwaffe-stabsarzt-uniform.html












This damned jury's getting me. If I don't get away soon I'll be going blood-simply like the natives.

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