I just watch the movie again and it made me so mad, there are no way in hell that women should have had her baby back, she put him in the trash for crying out... I don't care if the baby was black and the adopted mother was white, Purple, Yellow or from Mars she took care of him and loved him, she was his mother....
Don't you believe in forgiveness and second chances?
Would you rather have Halle Berry's character living in guilt for the rest of her life, feeling like she's failed herself and her child? Isaiah, or the dream of Isaiah was the reason she quit crack and starting to put her life back together.
I do believe in forgiveness but not for th price of a child, she did something so wrong that she should not be forgiven...
the child should stay where he was, and he and could decide the day he turn 18 or 21 if he wanted something to do with her...
I bet if Jessica Lange was the crack addicted mother you'd feel different.
shareIf you think I care about what ever the mother would be white or black you are wrong, it would not change my mind if it was Jessica Lange that was the crack addicted mother...
I have 6 adopted brothers and sisters, that are a adopted though fostercare and some of them are living with the effects that drugs have, and i can tell you this I would never give one of them back...
so personal experience is your main bias regarding this issue. Not even if Halle Berry's character became clean.
shareI would say like this if she had come back in the first year and had been clean(she where jail I know) then I think mayby she should have had another change...but after so many years it's just not fair for the boy...
4 of my brothers adopted to an open adoption and their real mothers had to write under a contract that it would okay if she want to see them but she would have to stay clean to do so...
I think what they should have done is leave the boy with the people he was living with because they where his mom and dad, but she could see that way they could have a bond and he would know where he came from...
So to what ou write yes it's personal, and second I work with Childrens rights everyday.....I see some really bad cases where we give children back to mom's and dad's that should never have them back...
Ohh and about my brothers both mother's are back on drugs they where clean for 3 and 10 months....
well, I think that's the fault of the movie. Making the biological mother to be *coincidently in those circumstances to make Jessica Lange's character better.
shareThat happens a lot in real life... If she didn't put him in the trashcan because she was a drug addict then there would be no plot. Maybe it would be different for you if the crack addict was white and the adoptive family was black? Speaking from your comments, you probably would think it's so wrong to strip a baby from his caring black family to his selfish white birth mother but because it's a white family and a black crack addict it's difderent?This is a race thing for you clearly.
shareIt’s not right that affluence makes or breaks so many people’s quality of life, color, religion be damned.
As to Child Neglect/Abuse caused by substance abuse, I have personally seen some young to old Jessica Lange/Jennifer Lopez level of attractiveness women, locked in one room whilst their children ran around outside, day and night.
They loved their kids. Some of them didn’t love their kids.
Poverty and how we regard drugs seem to be the big problems, to me.
If everyone is financially secure, they do become not colorblind, but less likely to care about another’s color.
So what's your main bias regarding this issue? Your racism?
shareHaving read this whole thread, what stands out, is that you are thinking about the mother, the ADULT, rather than the CHILD. Your focus should be on the best interests of the CHILD, not of the adults. You take the view that the biological mother should have the child, because SHE deserves a second chance, SHE deserves forgiveness. What about the BOY? What about HIS best interests? Didn't you see what it did to him? All his life, knowing only Lange's character as his mother, and suddenly snatched away from his family and everything he has ever known, to a stranger? Don't you think that would be harmful to the CHILD? The CHILD should be the focus here, not some so-called mother's 'rights'.
shareI was planning on writing the same post you made before I saw yours. Children in this situation should be the one who are thought about, not the biological mother, not the adoptive parents, but the child, and where the best place for him or her is. If the child was only a year old, then yea, Halle Berry's character should have gotten him back, but not this far into the kid's life. It's not fair to him.
share@aalikane I was planning on writing the same post you made before I saw yours. Children in this situation should be the one who are thought about, not the biological mother, not the adoptive parents, but the child, and where the best place for him or her is. If the child was only a year old, then yea, Halle Berry's character should have gotten him back, but not this far into the kid's life. It's not fair to him.
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I completely agree with you on that.
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Movies I've Seen In 2013
Hansel & Gretel: WH
Oblivion
The Last Stand
G.I. Joe: R
Oz: TGaP
Well stated SaphfireRose!
So she put her child in the trash...and what if he had died there?In my estimation..love is acknowledging your mistakes and being grateful for not causing any harm...it ISN'T about trying to erase what you've done as if it never happened.As flocked up as she was ..this child could have been left any number of places where he would NOT have survived and she would have had NO ONE to harass to get him back.If this had been a foster child....that leaves the door open to a parent but this child had been adopted as a baby and lived with this family for TWO years and suddenly HIS Life had to change because his worthless mother SUDDENLY woke up from her drugged out state?As an adoptive parent I would even have allowed her to visit and know her son without upsetting his whole life...leaving the door open to him being told when he was old enough to understand.I've known women who adopted their daughters kids and everyone lived together with the child never being told until adulthood about his adoption.There are always consequences for the choices we make and I sure wish people would get back to being taught they they need to accept them and quit trying to rewrite history.
shareForgiveness is against the Judeo/Christian beliefs.They believe in the Mark of Cain, that anybody who screws up should be punished and tormented the rest of their lives, and that it is only God can forgive. That is why now things you did as a child in school can be used against you in a court of law when you screw up as an adult now. That is why you can actually be fired from a job over an incident that happened 20 years ago as a juvenile that comes to your employers awareness. That is why if you've ever been arrested for anything, no matter how trivia, and regardless of conviction, pretty much gives law enforcement the right to kill you.
shareForgiveness is against the Judeo/Christian beliefs.They believe in the Mark of Cain, that anybody who screws up should be punished and tormented the rest of their lives, and that it is only God can forgive. That is why now things you did as a child in school can be used against you in a court of law when you screw up as an adult now. That is why you can actually be fired from a job over an incident that happened 20 years ago as a juvenile that comes to your employers awareness. That is why if you've ever been arrested for anything, no matter how trivia, and regardless of conviction, pretty much gives law enforcement the right to kill you.
shareI agree I think that Halle's character redeemed herself but she still does not deserve to gain full custody of her child maybe visitation rights but that's it!
shareThe baby had bounded with her new mother and true mother. It was an extremely selfish act for the birth mother to fight to get him back. She was not demonstrating true love at all.
Any woman should have the right to see thier baby again if they indeed have changed!
share[deleted]
he had a family! his adopted family who was there from the beginning. the mother was in the hospital with him in the nicu. if anything, kyla should've either had visitation or maybe shared custody or they could've made the adoption open. but what they did was so wrong for everyone. the mother didn't say anything about his face because he was black; it had to do with him being born addicted to crack. hannah wasn't embarassed about her little black brother. she got embarassed because he shouted out at her play. she's a teenager; he's a hyper toddler. that'd pretty embarassing for a teen. if the birth mother had been white, would he have been returned to her?
what's up with all the weird commas?!
If it wasn't for Lange's character who knows what would've happened to that child. Black vs White has nothing to do with. Lange's character loved that child with all of her heart & didn't deserve that. That was *beep*
Samuel.L.Jackson's character's argument shouldn't have been about race. That was completely irrelevant. If it was a crackhead white mother trying to get her daughter back from a successful black mother who loved & raised a white baby like her own then everybody would've seen that completely differently..... I WAS FURIOUS!
princess Q 89:
y the hell did u post those long run on sentences with commas?
you have stretched the whole thread horizontally making it hard 4 us all 2 read!
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IndiaArieTESTIMONY VOL2:LOVE&POLITICS
Re: That Women Should Not Have Any Rights To That Baby
by - PrincessQ89 on Fri Oct 17 2008 01:28:49
I've,read,this,whole,thread,and,I,disagree.
I,believe,that,Halle,Berry's,character,did,deserve,her,child,back.
Every,child,deserves,to,be,with,their,biological,mother.
Why,should'nt,he,be,with,his.
She,was,clean,and,although,she,could,relaspe,at,any,time,that,doesn't,make,her,unfit.
She,might,have,put,him,in,a,garbage,can,but,that,doesn't,mean,she,doesn't,deserve,a,second,chance.
Thats,like,saying,since,you,use,to,smoke,weed,when,you,were,younger,
and,you,had,an,abortion,because,of,how,wild,you,were,you,don't,deserve,a,second,chance.
Some,people,would,say,that,race,should'nt,play,a,big,factor,in,the,decison,that,was,made,but,it,should.
Isaiah,was,black,and,should,be,raised,with,people,his,own,color.
How,fair,is,it,to,him,for,him,to,grow,up,and,not,being,able,to,identify,with,the,people,around,him.
What,type,of,questions,can,they,answer,when,someone,calls,him,a,racial,slur,or,down,talks,him,because,of,his,race.
His.own,sister,didn't,want,him,around,was,embarrased,because,he,was,black.
Maragret,herself,has,made,coments,about,his,race,and,this,was,her,so,called,child.
"Don't,look,him,right,in,his,face,black,babies,sometimes,have,trouble,with,that.
"Please,explain,to,me,how,we,as,African,Americans,have,problems,when,someone,looks,our,babies,in,the,face.
My,point,is,that,although,they,raised,him,and,loved
[deleted]
First of all, the lawyer used the race issue because it was the best way to win the case. If it had been a white mother, he would have used a different argument.
secondly, he did deserve to be with his real mother with LAnge's character playing the aunt figure. If his mother is clean his mother deserves him back. If she relapses, she should lose him for ever because her second chance is ruined. She should only get visitation after that. Until then he belongs with his real mother
This opinion isn't coming from having any foster experience. This is coming from being a black girl who grew up in a mostly white neighborhood. If my mom hadn't been there to help me through some issues I don't know how I would have ended up or how hard it would have been for me being the only one I ever saw like me. If you've never been in that situation or vice versa (being the only white person in an all black neighborhood/school) then you wouldn't understand how important it is to have people around like you to keep you grounded. That goes for latinos, asians, blacks, whites, greens, purples, oranges, teals, etc.
Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them. I don't give a *beep* how crazy they are!
Everyone probably felt sorry for Halle Berry cause she had the child.
www.youtube.com/Jaleesa18
1) For your information I am black & went to a predominantly white school in a racist area. So that poor black girl routine is lost on me. The child should go to the mother who can provide them with the most love & care... Not the mother who looks the most like him.
2) My mother was a foster carer. She raised a Turkish boy when I was younger because his dad used to beat him. She treated him like one of her own. We got the same treatment. We got the same privileges & discipline. If anybody mocked him, she vouched for him like her own. Regardless of the inevitable ignorant taunts & other obstacles that a child might get for being raised by another race, if the mother has the parenting skills & the love to deal with it then that will rise above all else... I'm not saying a same race family isn't the most ideal situation, I'm just saying that it isn't the ONLY situation. In Jessica Lange's character's case the issue of race definately wasn't sufficient enough to take the baby away from her because she did more than enough to show her worth as a mother.
There is no "poor girl" routine going on so there is nothing to get lost on you. Sorry if your little mind got offended but it is true that same race situations are the most ideal. You even say it. If the mother is on the right path she has the right to raise the child. I'm not saying "give the child to a crackhead because they are the same race" I'm saying "give the child back to his recovered mother". I truly believe that Halle's character would be able to love him the most. Didn't realize someone could be confused by my meanings. That's like telling a man he can't raise his children after he gets out of prison. Rehabilitation is about forgiveness. Any kind of rehabilitation.
Also you grew up with a black parents i assume. Ok then, not exactly what he went through. I didn't go what he would have went through either. so.......wtf? Also, you should understand how hard it COULD be for him as I assume some things were hard for YOU and you only got a taste.
Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them. I don't give a *beep* how crazy they are!
Thanx for that unnecessary attack. This isn't about you & I so let's stick to the topic.
By your logic if a woman divorces her husband for being a serial rapist only for her husband to serve his time, find Jesus & become a changed man. Does that mean that the woman should take him back because he has reformed?..... NO IT DOESN'T!
I'm NOT saying that Halle Berry didn't deserve to live the rest of her life with the same rights as a normal human being as she did clean up her act. I'm not even saying that she shouldn't be commended for doing so. However, sometimes regardless of how u repent, there are just some consequences that u have to accept are irreversible. In this case, Isiah being with Jessica Lange's character should've been one of them. Halle Berry's character did well to turn her life around but the bottom line is that Lange's character officially adopted Isiah & that's that.
P.S I was raised by my black biological mother & a white man actually. When looking at the father figures in my life, his race never comes into it. He raised me like his own & if my real dad turned up and said any differently then I wouldn't have it. So that shoots down your whole 'you grew up with black parents' argument.
So try & be more mature if u respond to this because your last post swayed off the topic completely!
His REAL mother is the mother who raised him. Not the woman who abandoned him for her next high. There are lots of successful transracial adoptions all the time and longitudinal research has PROVEN that you can be raised by a parents of a different race and still feel connected to your ethnicity, be happy, and lead a productive life. Khaila lost all rights to that child the minute she put him in the trash. When it comes to a child's life, you deserve no second chances.
shareI love this movie and the debate it sparks. Here's my view.
I thought it was downright idiotic for the judge to side with Samuel L. Jackson. His argument was flawed. Halle should gain full custody of Isaiah just because they're of the same race? Oh, forget the fact that she left him in the dumpster so she could get a hit, but them sharing the same color trumps that? It was ridiculous to take that child out of his environment, away from a family that nursed him back to health and loved and cared for him and then place him with a total stranger. He didn't know Halle from a hole in the wall. To Halle's credit, she didn't mean to throw him away (although she still did it) and she turned her life around so she could be a better mother. However, that didn't mean that she was ready to care for him all by herself. She wasn't a mom before and suddenly she's got this kid. I loved the ending because that should've been the arrangement from the beginning. Let Isaiah continue to live with Jessica Lange, but also allow Halle to see him and they could all come together to explain who she was and her relation to him. That made alot more sense.
Don't eva let nobody tell you you ain't strong enough
So your argument is that he should have been returned to Halle Berry's character because they were of the same race? That is your main concern? He was raised by the white family. They were his parents. He didn't know a thing about color. And boo hoo, you were raised in a white neighborhood. I'm black. I was raised in a white neighborhood, and my preschool was predominantly white. My elementary, middle, and high schools were all more diverse, but still...I knew that I was black. I'm not an idiot. I don't think that I've ever had a discussion about race or identity issues with my parents. Also, in the film, Samuel L. made a comment that Isaiah will wonder why he's darker than his parents, or he implied that Isaiah should have been with his black mother because they look alike. My dad is Isaiah's color, my mom might be a little lighter than Halle...and I might be a tad darker than Hannah. My sisters do not look like me. We are all different shades.
Who cares? I was raised around different races and cultures. I know who I am. So your argument is bullsh**. I love being surrounded by people who do not look like me because...how boring would life be if I was surrounded by people who look just like me all the damn time? Race is so irrelevant. Isaiah felt loved, he felt safe, and there was a sense of familiarity in the home where he was raised. That was all stripped away when he was taken from the only family he knew.
Also, this has nothing to do with race. I mean, if the addict in the movie had been white, and the adoptive parents were black...I'd feel the same way. Race is not important. Love and acceptance are. We need to get passed all of this racial crap. We're all just human beings.
-- I am a traveler of both time and space, to be where I have been
The mother would have moved on if she thought the baby was dead. She could have had visitation rights. The kid wanted to stay with the adopted parents. Didn't they legally adopt him? How was she even allowed to get the baby back if the baby was adopted? It's been a long times since I seen this movies. Also, she put the kid in danger and he could have died. She just threw him away. She doesn't deserve him and I hate the standards that she deserves the kid because she is black. It wouldn't work that way if it was the other way around. The defense was stupid. What are they teaching the son. she didn't care and her actions of throwing him away should have prevented her from getting her again. how will he feel being with the mother who threw her away and didn't want him. Race shouldnt matter
shareShe was allowed to fight for the baby because the official adoption process has to have the birth mother's signature of approval and they didn't have it because I imagine they never thought they had to
shareIm pro him staying with his adoptive family but I get where you're coming from, the world is a cruel racist place and him being around predominately white people, he's bound to run into one. That's something that I feel like his birth mother could help him through but in general I feel like the adoptive mother was best fit to raise him. She loved that little boy with all her heart and he loved her regardless of color. And there's no gurantee that the adoptive mother couldn't have helped him through the racial issues, of course there are gonna be people looking and judging and being ignorant. I believe they both could've taught each other a few things tbh..
shareIn Texas, if a mother abandons a child (whether she's on drugs or not) in any other way than at a hospital or firestation, then her butt automatically gets thrown in jail. All of her rights get taken away with no chance of getting her child back. I was shocked that they even considered her side of the story AT ALL. She put her child in mortal danger.
shareAgree 100%.
The bio mom left him for dead in the garbage, but now that she's clean she deserves him back? I don't care what color you are; if you're that irresponsible to smoke crack while pregnant and taking care of a child, then throw him away in a garbage bin, then IMO, you lost you're rights to that child. If the racial roles were reversed in this film, the junky mom was white and adopted by a black family I'd feel the exact same way. The mom doesn't deserve a second chance, what chance did she give Isaiah?
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-Carl Sagan
She deserved some rights, but I don't think she deserved full custody, even just because taking him from his adoptive mother was so traumatic. She did recover and prove to be a better person after all.
shareAgreed...and I'm black. She left the baby for dead and got him back. That's ridiculous.
shareI am adopted. While my mother did not leave me in a dumpster, she did leave me in the hospital and never returned. I was only 19 Days old and was taken in and eventually adopted by the woman who raised me. THIS is who I consider my mother. The ending of Losing Isaiah pisses me off. NO-HALLE BERRY's character did NOT deserve to have the child back, ESPECIALLY FULL custody. While the judge might have made awarding Isaiah to Halle Berry's character about race (it's been a long time since I have seen the film...probably b/c I don't really want to see it again, b/c of the ending), abusing a child has NOTHING to do with race.
Many children who are given back to their parents are abused even more harshly, the 2nd/3rd time they are returned. And sadly, they are often killed or die as a result of the abuse or neglect.
You can be of any race, ethnicity, orientation, or financial background. If you are abusive, you do NOT deserve to be the parent of that child. PERIOD.
Not that it matters, but I am African American.
<<Death is whimsical today.>>