The last person to drive Zach's truck was Luke. What if he was the the one that killed Jenny? There is no mention of how long she was missing before Zach was killed so maybe Luke killed her and saw a chance of framing someone else
All we really know is they found her blood in the truck and more then 1 person drove the truck
Marc was with him during the trip, and given how defensive Marc was of Heather later in the film, I doubt he'd have allowed Luke to kill Tyler.
M
Please note, I do not want comments from housewives, students or the unemployed.
Luke would be able to go back to the truck alone and place the blood in it. Jenny was killed before Zach was which for all we know happened just days before Zach was
What makes you suspect Luke? Zach was a far, far bigger nutcase, he was a US Marine for Heaven's sake!!
M
Please note, I do not want comments from housewives, students or the unemployed.
Zach was a US Marine so what? Look at how Luke reacted to Zach's death and he was the driving force behind the group inviting other people over to be killed
He was the one who never shown any guilt, remorse, never question if they were doing the right thing
Wait, wait....he's a Marine, and you ask, "So what?" ????? Are you *beep* serious?
All due respect, you need a reminder of what these people do. It's bad enough all military scum sign up to murder people on demand by a C/O - army, navy, air force etc - but the MARINES are a special division of the american military who are trained wholly for combat, not for fixing broken tanks or patching up torn parachutes. THAT is Zach's background.
To make it even worse, the moron fought in an Iraqi War...he has to be a psycho.
Next to him, Luke looks like a Liberal. Well, actually he IS a Liberal.
M
Please note, I do not want comments from housewives, students or the unemployed.
Unless you can show studies backing up what you are saying I see nothing wrong with someone who is a Marine that fought in a war
What ever freedoms and rights I have I got because of people like Zach putting his life on the line
Studies?? Sweet Jesus, you want STUDIES? These people MURDER on command!! That's not the subject of some sociological degree paper, that's a damn FACT!
That's the same as telling me you don't mind if Zach had been a member of the damn taliban. They both kill on demand, they both look forward to killing, and they both do it for their people.
Sorry, if you see nothing wrong with being a marine, then you're a cuckoo headcase. This conversation is over.
Get help. For everyone's sake.
M
Please note, I do not want comments from housewives, students or the unemployed.
Marines guard this country they protect me and my freedoms. They only kill those who threaten this country with force which means it not murder
A marine who kills someone who is attacking you is not murder that marine is acting to defend you
This is my LAST post to you - it's not killing, it's murder. The fact that it's state-sponsored murder doesn't make it any less murderous. They don't know the immorality of their missions, they just obey. Just like the taliban.
And you need to get help, NOW. You're on my 'Ignore' list, so instead of typing a reply I'll NEVER read, use that time wisely, instead call your Doctor and make an appointment. I don't mind paying tax money to help anybody who needs help with mental health.
I wish you a speedy recovery.
M
Please note, I do not want comments from housewives, students or the unemployed.
A murder is by definition an illegal killing. Killing is still wrong, even if it doesn't fit the definition of murder, so don't get me wrong that I disagree with your overuse of the word.
Being a Marine does not make someone a sociopath. Not all Marines are gunners (they have a good size support system, smaller than other branches but it's there). We don't know much about Zach's background, but if he was a Marine in the 1980s to 1990s, he probably didn't see much combat. The Gulf War is the only real good chance of that.
But he also took himself very seriously. Being an 'ultra-Marine' and all, which implies that he had a strong pro-military ethic which *could* mean he holds a lesser view of non-Marines. Although that is not true of most Marine-o-philes.
Did PTSD cause the murder of Jenny Tyler? Probably not. PTSD, at its very worst, causes murderous rampages not serial killing of women. Whatever Zach's problem was, it was entirely unrelated to his Marine or wartime experience. In fact, serial killers often try to join the military or police forces to satiate their desires for authority. That seems much more a likely explanation to tie "Marine" with "murderer" (again, in the illegal killing sense).
(And please refrain from personally attacking others or me in the future. This is about the movie not your personal beliefs on someone's mental health)
Tim Thomason
minuetteg, your outrageous attacks on Marines are gratuitous and excessive. You're either putting us on or you're an unmitigated bigot. I don't really care which.
"The value of an idea has nothing to do with the honesty of the man expressing it."--Oscar Wilde
Does anyone see it as somewhat ironic that our friend minuetteg was behaving a little like the characters of the film they were posting about....
shareIndeed. I always find it difficult to believe that someone who can get that angry in an internet discussion wouldn't be pushing the blue flask before the appetizer is over.
shareUnless you can show studies backing up what you are saying I see nothing wrong with someone who is a Marine that fought in a war
Marines guard this country they protect me and my freedoms. They only kill those who threaten this country with force which means it not murder
Don't you get it? The question is not whether he protects you and your freedoms and/or whether this is a killing or murder, the fact is that he is has killed someone before (and is used to killing), while Luke - as far as we know - isn't.
I always though that Zach did it, because of how vindictive he seems when talking with the grad students then again Luke seems that way as well and the way they stared at each other, they knew what the other is like, which explains why Luke showed no remorse when Zach died. And if Luke did kill the girl, why would he have evidence laying around? I'm willing to believe that Zach either killed assaulted the girl and the rest are accessories to his crime by either not knowing where the girl is since they killed him, and she was left to die in some undisclosed location, or they had no idea about him killing some girl until later and they withheld information of a supposed murder.
shareThere are two unknowns. How much time passes between Jenny Tyler's death and Zach's death. If it was only a few days maybe a week Luke could have gone back to wherever he placed the body then go to back to Zach's truck and what happened to her body
If Luke did it he may have buried it close by
The only information they had about the murder was given to them by the sheriff. I don't see how you can be held as accessories to the murder when they knew nothing about it before Zach was killed and certainly didn't know anything after he was killed.
shareWhatever freedoms and rights you have are not because of people like Zach. They are because of people like our forefathers during the revolution.
The things people like Zach do are not protecting your freedoms. Things people like Zach do are only protecting the puppet masters in the government and their money making schemes and bids for world power. No one is trying to take our freedoms. If anything, they just want us the hell out of their countries.
Is this really a debate? I always took it as Paxton was the killer.. marine or not he revealed himself as a loathesome human being who probably thought very little of anyone else.. in his own way he had the same much better than you attitude.. that's how I took it anyway.
shareThe only thing linking Paxton to her is the blood in the truck and there is the possibility that someone else planted the blood there.
shareLuke did kill Jenny, it being his idea to drive Zach's truck alone. And later he says to the sheriff—in a cold and certain sociopath's tone—"I think Jenny's dead." The certain tone is because he killed her. And he's basically confessing to the sheriff, which he freely does because he knows he's about to kill the sheriff, thus making her a silent witness. After saying he thinks Jenny's dead, he drops his blood-red popsicle to the tomato-plant-grave, which is a symbol of his culpability. The sheriff does not agree with Luke and says, "We can always hope." But he wants her off his trail, so he immediately kills her with the shovel. The writer would not have had Jenny as a backdrop through the whole movie if she pertained to only one cameo-length character (Zach). I could mention more (especially Luke's dialogue elsewhere in the film) but I think that's sufficient.
shareI obviously missed this, unusual, example of left wing 'artistry'.
The pseudo intellectual 'educated' idiots in this movie deserve the ending.
the current resident of Our White House has a liberal socialist agenda which is Killing Our Country
Luke killed Jenny, he was more of a cold blooded killer than Zach ever thought of being. As someone previously stated, he practically confessed to the crime to the sheriff in the tomato garden.
shareThis falls apart pretty quickly.
The whole point of the film is that the do-gooders corrupt themselves through murder, thinking they are continuing to do good.
Zach definitely leads the group, leading him to act out beyond them to kill the sheriff (a genuinely good person, and in a clear act of evil.
This leads to the dissolution of the group and the final chapter of the movie.
Everything falls apart if Luke's already a murderer. Including Luke's final falling-apart scene at the end -- it means nothing if he's already a murderer.
The main point and irony is that Luke thinks he's good -- and even that killing the sheriff is simply a defense of their situation. (I love Vance as an actor, but I do think he horribly overacts the entire final scene with the sheriff -- it's really unfortunate.)
Anyway -- that's why the whole thing is so sad. Luke is tainted by acts he once thought were good (but which of course were awful and indefensible).
I definitely will never think he killed Jenny. The whole point of Jenny is that she provides a moral compass -- a sweet girl, killed by an evil killer. Up until the end, Luke and the others are able to argue themselves as good -- until they realize who they really are.
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I keep thinking I'm a grownup, but I'm not.
I think Luke killed Jenny too. He probably killed her and put her in the trunk of his car. After Mark killed Zach, Luke saw this as an opportunity to frame Zach by putting Jenny in his truck and disposing her body in a lake (mostly likely). His dislike toward teenage girls like Heather was very telling....
share