MovieChat Forums > Kids (1995) Discussion > This film was not shocking in any sense

This film was not shocking in any sense


So, to preface, I'm a 19 year old male college student and I attend one of the top public universities in the US. I've met people from all different backgrounds, and since coming to college have seen things that would leave many people shocked.

This film is the most realistic portrayal of teenage life that I have ever seen. Smoking weed and getting drunk are the staple of many kids diets these days. Granted, at 15 I wasn't getting drunk all the time and wandering the city with my friends, but I knew my fair share of kids that did, and since coming to college have met more people and seen a LOT more than I ever thought I would.

The movie takes place in the middle of summer, and reminded me a bit of how my past few summers went. Without a job, lots of kids are just getting drunk, smoking and partying and hanging out all day. I've watched people inhale whip-its, smoke opium, snort cocaine, take ecstasy, mushrooms and acid in addition to drinking and smoking (not all at the same time of course). Where I'm from I know kids who are literally never not stoned and binge drink at least 4 times a week.

People are mad that this movie is so graphic and tasteless and has no artistic value. THIS IS THE ONLY MOVIE I'VE SEEN TELL THE TRUTH. Kids are doing things like this at younger and younger ages, and this film was made over 16 years ago. Of course, not all kids are complete douchebags like Telly, but imagine all the kids who weren't one of the few main characters. They were hanging out at the skate park, at the party at that one kids house, and they didn't rape anybody or try to deflower some 13 year old. They were just "normal" kids having fun with their friends. Even Casper, as much of an *beep* piece of *beep* as he was, was actually pretty hilarious at some points and seemed like he would be a great friend if you knew him. That's why the rape scene at the end devastated me - kids get too *beep* up and make one mistake and ruin their own life and the lives of others, when it could have all been easily avoided.

Yes, most of the things in this movie are *beep* up, but that's the nature of the beast. Parents you may think this is a ridiculous portrayal of some junky kids, but chances are you son or daughter has participated in this type of thing to varying degrees, or at least they know and have seen kids who live this type of life to the fullest.

Remember, the script was written by an 18 year old. I think he knew a whole lot more about what was/is going on with his generation than does the 30+ year old crowd who acts so appalled at what they see. KIDS will always remain one of my favorite movies simply due to the fact that it is the most realistic depiction of any facet of life I have ever seen.

reply


Oh thank god, reading the title of this thread I was expecting a complete different opinion. I can't say much about how realistic it is as I didn't grow up in the States and it's not as bad down here as it is in the movie (but it's going there). The idea that this really happens is somewhat terrifying to be honest.

reply

Realistic? My friends that age were worse.

reply

Couldn't agree more. I come from outside the US and had an upper middle class childhood, but this really reminded me of my teen years. It was a very truthful movie and one of the best I have seen. Look at some of the reviews on Rotten Tomatoes and they are totally hysterical. Labeling this as kiddy porn. One of the best US indie movies ever

reply

I am 30+ and I wasn't shocked by this movie. And I don't think its a very realistic depiction of teenagers' life. Having all that happening within 24 hours of a typical day, is unrealistic for majority of teenagers. Having all that happening during a couple of years - yes, that could be.

reply

I'm 30+ too, with an upper middle class uprising in a well educated family and environment, outside the US.

And I'll tell you this much, this could have happened in my youth in the 90s in the space of a few days during summer vacation. 24 hours is pushing it a wee bit, but less than a week plausible. We had weeks like this, boozing, hanging out, smoking, making out. Now I'm not aware of rape incidents or HIV infections, but we had some hep cases and 2 friends OD'd, one of them didn't make it. (But I guess thats what you get for "graduating" to the needle...)

I've seen the hardest partying in my life and more drugs, sex and weird stuff in the years from when i was 12 to when i was about 19 or 20 then in the 15 years since. It's hard for an adult that has never seen it to imagine things like this, but "Kids" isn't really all that unrealistic.

reply

Well, I'm in the 40 plus crowd and it was no different when I was young.

It was in some ways more crazy as the world wasn't such a police state yet and we didn't have much for video games or the internet to fill our time. Everything wasn't so expensive either. We didn't have to worry about cameras. Parents didn't think a pedo was around every corner looking to kidnap and rape their kids. We didn't have hysterical levels of "zero tolerance", DUI enforcement, what constitutes "consensual sex",....

reply

The only thing that pushes the movie over the edge is the HIV subplot.

Jenny finding out about her condition, and then looking for Telly around NYC in the pre-internet, pre-cellphone days is ridiculous to anyone who has ever been to Manhattan.

Also, older HIV tests were hardly reliable.

Even for a test with an accuracy of 99.9%, the probability of a one-time HIV-positive result being a true-positive is only ~67%.

EXPLANATION:
If the actual HIV prevalence among the population of Manhattan is 0.2%,then assuming a population of 1.5 million, statistically 3000 will actually have HIV.

Now if these 3000 people with HIV actually take the 99.9%-accurate test , 3 of them will come up as false-negatives, and 2997 will come up as true-positives.

Also, out of the other 1,497,000 HIV-negative people taking the test - with its 99.9% accuracy - 1497 will come up as false-positives.

Therefore, together
(2997 true-positives)/(total=true-positives+false-positives) = 2997/4494 = 66.7%

If the prevalence of HIV is even lower (which it likely was in early 1990s) then the test is actually even less reliable.

*Today several samples will be taken, and at least two different tests will be used to confirm the results. But it still does happen, and the current enzyme test has a specificity (the probability of finding true-positives) of only 99.7%, and a Western blot must be used for confirmation.

reply

It doesn't matter how reliable tests were/are.

It is clearly implied and meant to be taken that Jenny is in fact HIV positive.

"You're going to need a bigger boat." - Chief Brody

reply

I'm 41 and totally agree with what you are saying I never spent a night in.From the age of 14 I was out every night taking drugs and going to clubs.I now have a son and he's 16 and RARELY goes out as he's always on his PC playing games,he hasn't lost his virginity or even had a girlfriend yet(he's straight,I had that conversation with him.And told him I wouldn't be bothered 1 way or the other.Besides the ammount of crap he gets from porn sites drives me nuts).
At his age in my day,(I left school in the UK at 16 in 1990)that would of been really wierd among most of my mates and would of marked you out as a total freak.I didn't hang around with dead legs either I was in the top set out of 8 all through Secondary School and so were 90% of my mates.I imagine there are plenty of kids like we were,but I've noticed that kids stay in a lot more and are shut off fromm the world,it scares me how my son is gonna cope in the real world.
I sometimes wish he would take drugs or get done for shoplifting or something, those experiences socialised me and got me used to the world.He is totally without social skills because of the PC(which I admit I got him into).His Mum doesn't help either,she treats him like a baby,he's just left school and only a few months ago she wouldn't let him get a bus from Bolton to Salford(11 miles)to visit me,she says I have to pick him up.
At his age I was going to raves all over the North West etc,from the age of 11 my Mum used to let me get a coach from Runcorn to Salford at about 7pm on a Friday night,where my Dad would pick me up(That's about 30-40 miles).I know I've gone off topic but my point is I think our kids are being babied so much now it's ridiculous,most parents are scared of everything.There were just as many murderer's and paedo's as there are now, and the chances are very slim anything will happen.It's the same with germs etc,our immune system need something to give it a fight now and again,that's how it strengthens itself.We used to swim in the Manchester Ship Canal for gods sake which in those days was pure effluence and I very rarely get ill.Yet kids are more and more developing asthma etc.
Sorry about the rant but these are things that really wind me up.Okay in the film there's AIDS but in real life it's very,very rare in countries in the west.We're bringing up weak children who if there's ever an outbreak will not be able to fight it off because their immune system hasn't had to do anything.Also a lot of them are not socially aware and are gonna get ripped off and all kinds if the right person sees them.Sorry again.

reply

Are you sure you're 41? Did you mix the numbers up because you sound about 14 to me!

I sometimes wish he would take drugs or get done for shoplifting or something

What fine aspirations you have for your son! I'd say having a parent like you is a much more likely reason for failure than the lack of 'life skills' you think important. I didn't realise shoplifting was such a good skill to have on your CV!!!!

(Hey, there's a biosciences lab near me recruiting atm. I'm sure they'd snap you up in a second with such enlightened views regarding immunology!!)

Question: Why does this board attract semi-coherent idiots like manuniac (is that his spelling of 'maniac'?!)

Answer: Because the people who acted like the soulless children in this film come here because they are impressed by their behaviour, or feel relief that there are others just as wretched as they were.

reply

I commend him on his views. I guess you weren't socialized in a leftist culture (like Europe or certain parts of the US).

To be honest, I'd also be suprised and kinda disappointed if my son wasn't arrested once before his 18th birthday (but I would hope he won't be arrested at any point in his life after his 18th).
The reason behind it is that in Europe, petty crimes commited by minors don't show on your criminal record (as long as it doesn't become a habit leading to multiple prosecutions), so your employment chances remain intact.
Getting arrested however as a youth in Europe is mostly embarrassing really, and seems a lot worse subjectively while you're in police custody than it actually is as a life event (I know laugh when I think about the situations I got into), but it does make you think about the consequences your actions have and thus are a good school of life (I'd rather my son got done for smoking weed or shoplifting than have him defraud people later in life - if he does that, he's a pathetic loser, but if he gets arrested for shoplifting at 15 and learns a lesson out of it I'm happy to know he was shown what he faces if he screws up or takes advantage of people. Youngsters don't always get/internalize the morals you teach them without making their own mistakes and learning from them.

And I agree with him on the immunology bit too. I never take preparations to prevent a cold, don't avoid people when they're sick, and I never get sick myself. Others I know who are overly concerned get sick all the time.

reply

If you're about to commend someone for wishing their child (and apparently your own) a criminal record, then maybe you ought to fully understand the implications of such a misinformed inclination. It's a popular misconception (and one you appear to have fallen for) that the slate is wiped clean at the age of eighteen, in the UK at least. I can't speak for the rest of Europe, but I'd be surprised if the law was radically different there.

In the UK:-

Convictions for first offences remain for 5.5 years from the date of conviction, cautions for 2 years post issue, warnings 1 year, but only when the person commits no subsequent offences.

Convictions/cautions for multiple offences along with a conviction resulting in a custodial sentence ARE NEVER WIPED.


There have been multiple cases in the UK recently of people applying for high profile jobs having to stand down due to minor convictions coming to light from their childhood.

It's a shame you don't seem to realise that good parenting can teach a child MOST OF the life skills needed without them having to resort to petty crime. That seems like a monumental cop out to me on your part. The main message of this film is that omission of good parenting leads to feral children with no moral compass, and sadly that message appears to go over the heads of most of the people here who appear impressed by the unpleasant kids portrayed. I'm not about to give you a lesson in immunology, but suffice to say your opinions are just as poorly informed as those you hold on criminal law!

You sure you're not manuniac-06574!!? Both of you have been members for only a few months, made only one (poorly informed) forum post, and no reviews or ratings.

reply

In Europe, criminal law is very different to the UK (even though there are common/shared standards for certain parts due to the EU), I have explained the legal situation here in the next paragraph (BTW I strongly doubt that anyone is impressed by these kids, and if you look at other entries in this forum you'll find that there are plenty of upper middle class kids from "good households" who got into the same sh*t these kids got into - good parenting isn't the sole factor in raising a kid, other influences that are basically beyond the parents also play into the situation, such as friends - and believe me, unless you deny your kids any trust and put them under 24/7 surveillance like a control freak you won't be able to prevent these outside influences - especially not if the kid is raised by a single mother and the father has little say in their upbringing, which is a rampant problem in both Europe and particularly the UK from what I've heard/read).

Regarding criminal law in Europe (as said, very different than in the UK):
Youths under 14 are totally free of any liability (all the police can do when they catch them doing something wrong is to call their parents & tell them off, if the parents are not available or even in the country the kids are set free - I saw on TV that same applies in Germany, which is why Gypsies bring trained pickpocket kids into our countries who claim to be unaccompanied minors so the police can't do anything against them as long as they're under 14, even if they're arrested multiple times within a day for serious offences such as attempts of abusing credit cards.).
Between 14 and 17, first offences are ALWAYS striken from all records when the kid turns 18, except if multiple offences have been committed or if the crime was of sexual nature. Also, if people commit a 2nd crime while underage, the judge can decide to suspend prosecution indefinitely under the provision that no further offences are committed (which is basically the 2nd/last chance to prevent a police record, and it is often made use of by courts as giving someone a record isn't taken lightly and is considered kind of a last resort before locking them up). Courts basically try to avoid giving people records unless they refuse to learn from their mistakes, and usually prefer other means of teaching people a lesson as they know that preventing people from getting a good job will only increase their chance of re-offending.
Thus, people can also appeal to the president (through the ministry internal affairs) for a striking of their entire criminal record (even if this features multiple entries and/or offences committed as adults) if haven't reoffended for a certain amount of time (which is usually granted, but only once in a lifetime and only for crimes that didn't involve sex or excessive violence).
Custodial consequences are VERY hard to implement in (continental) European countries, and are usually only even considered if the kid has already been arrested multiple times for relatively serious offences and the parent admits that they see no way of getting them in line (many kids are raised by single mothers who simply have to work & can't afford babysitters, and society deems it unfair to punish them by taking their children away from them because they couldn't work and look after them at the same time).

I think you just got wrong what we meant by "wish they would get arrested" - what I meant is that I'd rather have my child try something stupid and be shown the consequences ONCE while they're underage, rather than have them make that same mistake at an age where being arrested leaves much less of an intimidating impression (as adults know their rights, can call lawyers, etc.) and has much more serious consequences (life-long record) if they are as stupid as to make any mistake after their 18th birthday (be it only days after that).

No one wants their children to commit serious crimes (let alone get a criminal record), and THEREFORE smart people would prefer to have their kids make mistakes as long as it doesn't affect their future rather than having them grow up in a care-free environment where the small mistakes they make don't have any serious consequences, leaving them with less of a grasp of the risk they are taking if they decide to break the law at a later point in life (people's brains aren't fully developed until they're about 26, so I'd rather my kid makes a mistake and learns from it while they're underage rather than to fear them making mistakes at an age where they don't get away with a slap on the wrist even if it is/remains their first and last offence.

Of course no one wants their children to become serious criminals or commit crimes, but given the increasing stupidity of todays system (where people need to step down from top jobs for having shoplifted a lolly in their childhood, whereas banksters who - in full knowledge of the potential consequences - cause serious damage to the taxpayer/economy are rewarded with bonuses), we'd just prefer the kids to make their mistakes while it doesn't affect their future careers rather than have them ruin their career after making a stupid mistake out of lack of awareness of the consequences they may face once they're 18. As mentioned before, many children (if not the majority) are raised by single mothers (and the father has little chance of having any meaningful influence), so good parenting is pretty much a luxury few kids are lucky enough to receive (and many parents are denied to provide). Given this situation, add in high schools that have people leaving without even being able to read/write properly (let alone teaching them morality/values, but instead they're increasingly having young boys put on medication for acting aggressively compared to girls, a trend that is coming to UK/Europe now from the US), a lack of morals taught/demonstrated by society as a whole (which is promoted in the media etc), and you might see why we're not as misguided as it may seem.

A law that makes a 40 year old man step down from a top job for having stolen a can of soda when he was A CHILD is stupid BTW (if he robbed an old lady, I could see the point, but let's stick to the given example), and having such laws only contributes towards pushing people into criminality. If I was denied a job I worked 30 years to earn because of some minor infringement I committed as a child - while pedophiles are protected by police (see Rotherham, Gary Glitter, allegedly PM Edward Heath) - I doubt I would continue to respect/abide by the law as strictly as I do now.

reply

As I said before, I can't really speak for the rest of Europe, and I doubt many people accurately could without spending a great deal of time wading into the nuances of around 50 countries' legal systems.

I suspect though, you are over-generalising, as there are about 20 countries in Europe that are not members of the EU, and even for members, there is no general EU criminal code, just guiding legislation that seeks to enhance the discrete criminal law systems of member states.

I also hope you're not trying to suggest that the majority of kids in Europe are brought up by single parents! I'd also by highly dubious of Europe following the US in the widespread prescription of antipsychotics to kids. And it's unlikely anyone would get sacked or turned down for a job just for stealing a can of soda in their youth, as an offence like that would likely result in a warning or caution and therefore only remain on their record for 1-2 years.

reply

I found it boring and fairly tame.

The story was interesting, just poorly executed with an ensemble cast of character actors who can't act.

This, stamps all over the realism - and the 'appalled' reaction it got wasn't the content of the film, but the poor quality of the film.

Wanna get attention for your independent film? Shoot it shaky-cam style and put a controversial topic in it; that way any negative reaction can be attributed to the content being too 'strong' or 'gritty' as opposed to the low quality of the actual film.

Plenty of really high-quality movies over the last 50 years - watch them instead.

MARVIN
"Man, I don't even have an opinion"

reply

You're the first person I have ever known that's seen this movie that holds that opinion... Granted this isn't the kind of movie most of the people I know would watch.

"You're going to need a bigger boat." - Chief Brody

reply

The original poster just goes to show how desensitised kids these days have become to this kind of thing. Having said that, I know plenty of 15-20 year olds today who still found this film shocking.

reply

The original poster just goes to show how desensitised kids these days have become to this kind of thing. Having said that, I know plenty of 15-20 year olds today who still found this film shocking.


Thank goodness for that. It's scary how jaded some of the posters for this movie are, making statements such as: "I knew lots of kids like this, I was like that myself, I don't regret a thing." Just because this movie is "realistic" doesn't make the actions of these kids okay. They are nasty, horrible people who lack empathy, compassion, respect for others and their behaviour is not only self destructive and destructive to others, it's also sleazy (Telly in particular, not just as a sleaze but a destructive creep as he merrily, though unknowingly, spreads HIV) and criminal (Casper, the budding rapist). Lack of parental supervision has contributed to a lot of this behaviour but when do these kids start taking a little responsibility for themselves and others?

Don't let anyone ever make you feel like you don't deserve what you want.

reply

Sadly this film is a very accurate depiction of high school years in America. I knew plenty of kids who behaved this way, and I occasionally was one of them. I have close friends who first smoked weed when they were 11 years old. When there is no supervision kids can do crazy stuff. The only parent in the film is seen openly breastfeeding while smoking a cigarette, god.

reply

This film is more about neglect than anything else. I was a teenager from 97-2004. I remember 8th and 9th grade being more like this. I didn't experience this in my particular suburb, but if I was visiting someone else's house in another neighborhood. than yeah, there were more *beep* up *beep* If I had hung out with a different crowd things would probably have been different too. The dialog was spot on though.

reply

As to this film being "shocking," that depends on the viewer. I was in my young 20s when this film came out and as someone who grew up in NYC I did not find this film "shocking."

However, to many parents who saw this film, it was probably shocking to them as they had no idea about how many kids were living their lives. My parents knew of some of the bad stuff that was going on, but for the most part turned a blind eye.

Growing up in NYC and my teenage years in the late 80s and early 90s, we hung out on the streets, we drank a lot of 40s which is the cheap and easy way to get drunk, we did not beat anyone up as they do in the movie but we drilled a lot of people with eggs and stole a lot of things. We did not do drugs and there was never a rape, but we hung out and talked a lot about sex and would crash each other's house's all the time when someone's parents were away so we could drink.

You are right that this was a very honest and accurate portrayal of life. But much like the film City of God, it might not be shocking to those who live and witness this, but to outsiders it is a shocking real portrayal they were unaware existed.

reply

It is an honest and accurate portrayal of a SEGMENT of life. Not all young people are like this, nor want to be like this. Nor should they be made to feel that somehow they don't have a 'real' handle on life if they reject this *beep* For the record, I didn't reject it as a young person, not at the outset anyway. I wish I had though. You can't just blame parents for everything either. Blaming parents is part of the problem. Although there really are some parents who should not be parents but many are just fumbling through the best they can in a very complex world.

reply

There is NOTHING that happens in this film that is different than what happened before. My dad grew up in the Depression and there were girls who got on a bus to NYC and were never seen again. There were most certainly kids working regular jobs at 10 and 12 (he first was paid to work at 5, and had a steady job at 10). Do you think they weren't f'ing around too?
Blaming parents is not productive because the parents were working or looking for jobs 12+ hours per day. My dad was lucky and joined the military, and went to college on the GI Bill, and managed to avoid syphilis and other social diseases.

What makes me angry is that every freaking generations thinks their angst is new, and it is not. This behavior is not unusual in less developed areas of the world now, and it's not like they are using internet and TV to lose morals - people without guidance don't have morals.

reply

I only knew a handful of kids growing up who were similar to this movie but they were no where near as crazy. The kids in this movie seem just like the type that would grow up and end up in jail or dead. If kids really act like this in real life the future isn't too bright.

reply

I agree, there were no hard drugs,or liquor, they're drinking cheap malt liquor & smoking marijuana, & at those ages some r messing around experimenting with sex. I noticed no 1 is using protection. maybe that's the shocking part.

***
child please

reply