MovieChat Forums > Higher Learning (1995) Discussion > How Can Anyone Say Thats Not Rape?

How Can Anyone Say Thats Not Rape?

posted 11 years ago by lornamd-1
10 replies | jump to latest

The definition of rape is having sex with someone without there consent. She told him to stop clearly taking away her consent and he continued so that is by definition rape. Anyone should have the right to change their mind at any point and who would carry on with someone who is telling them to stop besides a rapist?

Just because she consented to sexual activity before and would have consented to sex does not mean that him continuing is any less painful, humiliating or traumatizing. So why should it be treated less seriously.

People talk like its unreasonable of her to only agree to sex if she's allowed to protect herself from STD's. Or that its not that simple that a man can stop during sex. It happens all the time when kids go to their parents bedroom in the middle of the night and most men will stop if asked to cause they aren't rapists.

Do research into the subject of rape and you'll find out that what he did does fit the definition of rape, that being raped under those circumstances is no less traumatic than being raped by a stranger in fact if anything its worse because people are more likely to be blamed and not taken seriously and that the perpetrator is a danger to society.

To people mentioning false accusations. All the research that hasn't been debunked shows that about 2-8% of rape accusations are false. About the same number as for any other offense.

[–] gabby_bm 11 years ago

Yes means Yes.

No means get the f^ck off me and go park your ass in that chair over there and engage me in a conversation before I press charges and you end up in prison on the receiving end.

I really don't see where there would be any confusion.

But I also recognize there are many women who foster a rape culture by playing coy with their "no", giggling and lightly brushing a hand off their tit or turning their head away just so. "No" needs to mean NO with no room for negotiation. It's not a sales pitch. It's wooing and courtship and either an advance is welcome or it's not and that needs to be established without all the game playing that's been a part of courting rituals for years.

Men need to accept "no" as the answer and not play the game because it is not a game. If a girl plays that game, the guy needs to refuse to play.

My "#3" key is broken so I'm putting one here so i can cut & paste with it.

[–] lornamd-1 11 years ago

Mostly agree with you but if someone brushes a hand away or turns their head they are making themselves pretty clear even if they are still keeping the tone light by giggling so I don't see how thats fostering rape culture.

[–] gabby_bm 11 years ago

Because it is not delivered in seriousness. It's delivered in a coy, playful manner which, in the spirit of "the hunt" is an invitation to continue pursuit. it is NOT clear and that's a big problem.

I know WHY it happens. A girl wants the guy and doesn't want to aggressively resist him and risk losing him so she employs a gentle resistance. Now to an adult mind that understands this, it's usually not a problem. But to a teenage boy, that's a pretty convoluted message being delivered. I should know. I used to be one.

What it ends up being is a game of wills - a test to see if he can break her will just a little further on the next round. And often, he does because her fear of loss is stronger than his fear of loss (especially effective on the impressionable or vulnerable). This, in turn, creates an environment that indicates to the male that "no" does not mean "no". It just means "try harder" or "try a different strategy" or even one of "play her game".

I'm not saying to give the male a right cross to his jawbone. But I am saying that we need to teach our daughters how to deliver an effective "no" without any mixed signals or encouraging a more strategized pursuit.

And by the same token, we MUST teach our sons that women are not a conquest and that sex is not some sort of achievement.

My #3 key is broken so I'm putting one here so I can cut & paste with it.

[–] scarlit 11 years ago

well-said. i've played that coy girl before - for exactly the reasons you stated - and the guy invariably tried harder.

[–] Foxy_Knoxy 11 years ago

Ask Kobe "Rapist" Bryant! This is what happened with Kate Faber.

[–] dl4060 9 years ago

To people mentioning false accusations. All the research that hasn't been debunked shows that about 2-8% of rape accusations are false. About the same number as for any other offense.

Where did you find this statistic?

[–] dl4060 8 years ago

I should add that such a statistic does NOT support the belief that 98% of rape accusations are true, just that 98% of those accusations cannot be demonstrated conclusively to be false. There is a HUGE difference between saying something is true and saying something is not definitely false.

Those studies really don't say anything anyway, as it is virtually impossible to determine whether or not an accusation is false. Police have different categories, one is not enough evidence, another is false accusation. They are not the same thing. The false accusation is based on a judgment by the officer, which is far from sound. Remember that the judgment of false accusation is just that, a judgment by the officer. The officer has no definitive knowledge of whether or not the allegation is true, there is no way to truly know whether an allegation is true or false.

Realistically, it is impossible to know the true numbers in regards to false accusations, as the only way for that to happen is for an accuser to recant. Even so, someone could be pressured into recanting. We can't know whether or not a rape actually occurred unless we were there. As I said before, there is no way to definitively conclude that a rape accusation is true or false. I guess you could say DNA could conclude that an accusation was true if the man denied having sex, but you would still have the case where a man might be married and might not want to admit to an affair, which could certainly cause him to lie.

The bottom line is that the people who believe that these studies conclusively determine what is or what is not a false accusation, and what percentage of accusations are false, really have no idea what they are talking about.

Actually, I will amend my statement. We CAN at times conclusively determine that a rape did not occur. An example would be the Duke lacrosse case, where there was exculpatory evidence, I believe DNA. The evidence made it impossible for the accuser's story to be true. If you like you can read up on it, there is plenty of information online.

We cannot, however, conclusively determine if a rape DID happen, unless we were there and watched the event. As I said before, studies like the OP brings up should not be taken seriously, as their methodology is seriously flawed. I hate to be redundant but there is no way to determine with 100% certainty whether or not a rape accusation is false or not.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] LadyLovie 8 years ago

on a serious note, she was so drunk, she couldn't consent to anything.

***
child please

[–] dl4060 (58) 6 years ago

He looked just as drunk as she was, could he also not consent to anything? I saw numerous occasions in college where women slept with extremely drunk men, men who would not have touched the women sober. I guess those men were raped too.

Back to the movie, as I recall it seemed pretty clear that she was raped. She said no, and he persisted. He should have stopped when she said no.

Anyone who knows anything about statistical analysis will laugh at the notion the 2% of rape accusations are false. It is something that is next to impossible to determine. I have seen that stat quoted before, and it was usually statistically illiterate sociologists and people like that who cite it. I have an M.S. in statistics and based on the studies I have seen the 2% number is a joke. As I said years ago it is next to impossible to prove a rape accusation is false. I could use the same type of logic to say that the vast majority of time rape accusations are actually false, since they are rarely prosecuted. Undoubtedly many rapes are not prosecuted. In the same way, proving you did not rape someone is very hard to do.

Let's say a woman graduated from college in 2013. Let's say a man comes forward now and says she raped him in the fall of 2012. The accusation would probably go nowhere, but it would NOT fall under the category of a proven false accusation, unless the woman had some way to prove she was not on campus when the man claimed to have been raped. Lots of absolutely absurd accusations go under the heading of accusations that are not prosecuted, but they are not under the category of accusations proven false. It is very difficult to prove an accusation false.