it tries so hard to be 'Pulp Fiction' when in reality it’s a far lesser version.
...and this claim...
Again, I don't think movies are alike
...are contradictory. Please choose one, so that we can continue our little debate.
As for your idea that those two scenes resemble each other, I'd say maybe just a little. I think, with your description, you nailed on the spot the scene in La Haine. But I don't agree that it was like that in Pulp Fiction. I see the relationship of Vincent and Jules in a very different light (as equals), compared to Vinz and little kid (kid obviously dreaming of becoming like Vinz). I think the scene in Pulp fiction served a different purpose (to show how cold blooded they actually are)... In PF, they didn't need to talk to boost their ego, they had guns for that...
The kid is talking about the candid camera he saw on TV, Vinz is talking about his trip in France and their fast food (no contemporary pop culture there). Dialogue is also different. In PF, they use relatively educated, but street poisoned language, while in La Haine they use abomination of ghetto language (equal to the dirtiest Ebonics ghetto language, heard in the darkest hip hop songs).
The only real resemblance is that both scenes contain egoistical, ignorant characters.
I'd say that Fight Club is more similar to Pulp Fiction, by your measurements, than La Haine. Just take into account any scene with Pitt and Norton (them talking about flight exit procedure, for example)
Your answer to my second question was:
Obviously I can't, but if I could only judge the realism of a film based on whether I'd lived there for a significant portion of my life then I'd be able to analyse very few films. And it isn't the sequence of events or setting that I'm saying are unrealistic, it's the dialogue and the overly-played character stereotypes which i thought lacked realism.
Again, my question was:
And how can you say it's unrealistic, when you know little of how that part of humanity looks in real life?
I don't know if you're answering to me, or just talking something that sounds cool. Maybe it's me expressing badly (English second language).
In other words, I asked you how can you say that the people in the film are unrealistic, when you don't know that type of people? But I guess it's a half rhetorical question (that you already partially answered), and I'm just trying to get you to back off that claim. If you don't want to, I surrender then, its unrealistic...
And next misunderstanding:
Also, I don't think I can agree that 90% of scenes have nothing to do with the plot.
I said that 90% of the movies contain some scenes that have nothing to do with the plot, not that 90% of the scenes are pointless. I agree with what you said about character growth...
Sorry if I offended you by the "we" remark. I didn't mean it. I just think its easier and shorter to write "we" instead of "adamedea1, znier, threelittlebirds, richie_patrese, punchbear, ooze26, wittman_howell and me". Hope that I cleared this up. (this was a lot of work...)
P.S. So I think we have a deal here. I'll stop preaching, and you stop acting as a victim, or understanding every mark as an attack... That way we can really discuss the movie, no?
'Please choose one, so that we can continue our little debate'.
My first statement there was intended to be about the one scene I've been talking about, sorry if that wasn't clear. The movies aren't alike, I was just pointing out similarities in that one scene.
'I think, with your description, you nailed on the spot the scene in La Haine. But I don't agree that it was like that in Pulp Fiction. I see the relationship of Vincent and Jules in a very different light (as equals), compared to Vinz and little kid (kid obviously dreaming of becoming like Vinz)'.
'I think the scene in Pulp fiction served a different purpose (to show how cold blooded they actually are)... In PF, they didn't need to talk to boost their ego, they had guns for that...'
I agree to some extent, but if they had no intention of boosting their respective egos then they could have quite easily of sat in silence and, by doing so, created the idea that they are cold-blooded in a 'strong and silent', mafiosa sort of way.
'Vinz is talking about his trip in France and their fast food (no contemporary pop culture there)'
Unfortunately, I think fast food has become a part of pop culture and I imagine that was the case even in 1994 - I'm too young to know that for certain though, so I'm open to being corrected on that point.
'In PF, they use relatively educated, but street poisoned language, while in La Haine they use abomination of ghetto language (equal to the dirtiest Ebonics ghetto language, heard in the darkest hip hop songs)'.
Again I agree to some extent, but I think the differences in dialogue don't so much represent the characters (from each respectives movies') different standings in society as much as they are simply differed because of the part of the world that they each hail from.
'I'd say that Fight Club is more similar to Pulp Fiction, by your measurements, than La Haine'.
It probably is, I've already said that the movies aren't alike.
'In other words, I asked you how can you say that the people in the film are unrealistic, when you don't know that type of people?'
My apologises, I read and replied to your post quite quickly and not thoroughly. When you're saying I don't know 'that type of person', do mean that I don't know people who are at the low end of society, struggling to find work, who feel as though they're opressed by the police and who roam around the streets in gangs? Because, without trying to wear some working class badge here, I think that I do - maybe they're not in a position where the police are actively being corrupt towards them, but I'd say that I know people who have that mentality/feeling of paranoia.
'I said that 90% of the movies contain some scenes that have nothing to do with the plot, not that 90% of the scenes are pointless'.
Ok, my mistake - like I've said, I read this quickly.
'Sorry if I offended you by the "we" remark. I didn't mean it. I just think its easier and shorter to write "we" instead of "adamedea1, znier, threelittlebirds, richie_patrese, punchbear, ooze26, wittman_howell and me"'.
No problem, I knew what you meant it was just that the toen of your writing came across in a certain way, maybe it wasn't intentional.
'So I think we have a deal here. I'll stop preaching, and you stop acting as a victim, or understanding every mark as an attack... That way we can really discuss the movie, no?'
Sounds good to me, pity it took this amount of pointless arguing for that idea to surface.
I usually don't like this kind of threads because the one starting the discussion just put some very negative and/of hateful comments and never come back.
But in this case, I have read the whole thread and you keep coming back and develop interesting arguments. The answers where sometimes interesting and sometimes quite stupid (like "watch the movie a couple o times, open your mind and you'll love it !" what a bunch of crap...as if you can have your own opinion...)
Here is my own view of this movie :
I think it's quite good but it is also quite overrated. Kassovitz is a very talented director and the direction is indeed very good. The atmosphere is good and I found the story entertaining as well. The acting was quite good too.
you can feel it is Kassovitz 2nd movie. It is quite arrogant in the way that the whole description of the French society and the whole world in general gives the feeling as if he understood it all.
Second, I understand the comparison with Pulp Fiction. The dialogs in La Haine try so hard to sound cool that I found it quite annoying. Also over the dialogs, I don't think they are really realistic. They want to "sound" realistic, that's different. And don't start with "you don't get the subtitles" because I'm French !!! I don't know how to explain it but the dialogs are too "neat" and not spontaneous enough to me to sound natural and realistic.
I really feel that the dialogs have been written down as a script before hand hand and it is not really realistic to me.
My final argument will be that when it came it out in France back in the days, many people from the "Banlieues" (french ghettos) critized the movie as being "unrealistic" (for example, NTM, a french hip-hop duo for the connaisseurs, really trashed the movie back then).
To conclude, according to me, the movie is quite good because it is well made and acted and I found it entertaining. But, to me, it is not a masterpiece because it is trying to hard to be realistic when actually it is not.
I wish I didn't get here so late, but at least I get the retrospect on top of this WORST FARKING PIECE OF EUROTRASH SHEET I HAVE EVER HEARD. If ANYone could have been a bigger idiot than the original post/er - Johan is our "man", child.
'I usually don't like this kind of threads', but "I will come here and be a worthless hypocrite, despite my post modern (lack of) self awareness, god of this discussion board" - Johan, you are a "negative/ hateful" K U NT, your self. And if you doubt it, only because you have no 3rd person perspective on STUPIDITY.
It is impossible to "over rate" this film, IMPOSSIBLE. It is a truly immaculate conception, 'La Haine'. Because it's obviously impossible for you not to pee all your pseudo-intello-stupidismo all over this masterpiece of all time; tell me where you saw more proficient camera work than the no-edit, flying shot over the ghetto, while NWA was being mixed with Edith Piaf!?????
As your name seems French, yet your diction and syntax (look them up) seem DEUTSCH, I have no doubt you are quasi-fascist, neo-moron EuroTrash nevertheless!
THIS however, is your crowning "glory":
'(for example, NTM, a french hip-hop duo for the connaisseurs, really trashed the movie back then).'
Are you about 10 or 15 years old!? Were you kidding. ALL THOSE NTM mo-fos can SUCK MY D I CK, (what a shame IMDB edits swearing). MAYBE, maybe they make half-decent hip-hop, MAYBE, but why would I . . . okay, no one is fairer and less arrogant than me, when judging S H ITE. SO, I looked at your little, Bourgeois, hip-hop outfit! They fake being ghetto do they!? Well, their music is C R AP. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "hip-hop for the connaisseurs" - YOU EUROTRASH LOSER. AND, IF, they happen to be from "the ghetto", SO FARKING WHAT!? So, they can show that off to all their hyper Bourgeois Eurotrash CONNOISSEUR friends!!?????
Even IF their music were good, AND they "knew what it is really like" in the ghetto - THEY KNOW NOTHING OF FILM! Particularly as you also have failed to note; what is startling, and beautiful and PROFICIENT (well made, you eurotrash loser), AND POETIC in this film - IT DOES NOT EVEN MATTER THAT THE SETTING WAS THE GHETTO.
About me: I lived 4 years in a Brasilian ghetto (favela), and you, what do YOU know of life, film, OR LANGUAGE!? "Connaisseur" MY AR S E!
The Director is nowhere near as simple minded as you, Johan - do you REALLY believe that he put ONE arab, ONE jew and ONE black, and NOT think about the silly cliché it COULD be. OF COURSE HE WAS AWARE AND THAT IS WHY THE FILM IS ALL BRILLIANT METAPHOR, ALLEGORY AND STUNNING, "CHIC" POETRY. And if the simplicity yet brilliance of the story and script doesn't wow you, this film maker thought he would show off with brilliant camera work, soundtrack, and film making in general.
It is a masterpiece - the best film of it's epoque, hands down - but also a secret for people who understand, without referencing tenth rate, whatever, French hip-hop, repressed homo duos. Tell me what MC Solaar said!? (Oh, he's no good because he is too popular!?)
PS. what I hate is what IF everyone hated, we would certainly be building a more just world - I HATE the world's most bourgeois people (yes, +- all of us at IMDB), BUT, those who are NOT even smart, yet purport to be. At least when I talk about "ghetto", I have literally lived in one, and a long time at that. And even if I hadn't, at least when I purport to be smart or to know - you'd better prick up your lazy, ignorant ears. Yes, this may be a painful experience, but the best growing ones, always are.
THE IMDB GOD :) (Sarcasm, in case you dry, eurotrash k unt stayed clueless).
Wow!!! Amazing... I feel a lot of hatred here... you should take it easy, it is just a movie allright ? If you don't share my point of view, fine but you don't have to insult me all along....
take it easy and have a nice day, allright ?