Overrated and boring

I watched it again, and you, and op, are right.

It was the plains clothes policemen they were taunting from the rooftop late in the evening.

The fact that op initially posted saying "no plot, boring. Dumb" and then followed up with a post trying to say that there was no way to possibly "like" characters this despicable or obnoxious.

That point is fair, but to dismiss my opinion, saying that if I liked them, then I clearly like stupid and boring things.

Instead of actually building on what I said and building a solid reasoning, it seems he still doesn't get it, at all.

As well, having characters that are "likable" is not a requirement for a great film. As I pointed out, Scarface, The Godfather, almost every Scorsese film and so on all contain characters who are irredeemable and even more evil than the characters in this film. It doesn't mean op or ANY person has to like them, but to dismiss someone who sees something more is... Well, it's what I should expect from imdb.

As to the plot, or lack thereof, the film attempted to convey the pointlessness of violence, and how hate begets hate.

Opinions are fine. Everyone is free to have and express it. But to only look at something from a narrow viewpoint, and to state, as was done here, that it wasn't opinion but fact, is where I have an issue.

Simply leaving it open, asking what people liked about it and so on would have actually meant it was an opinion. Responding and simply calling then points I raised, basically saying "you're wrong, and the fact that you can't see that is ridiculous" is where I have issues.

Just because a movie doesn't follow a person's pre-determined expectation, say a film like Salo, in which the written story is not to be taken literally, does that automatically make it a "bad film".

Again, while I admit that I was wrong about that specific part of the film, watching it again stressed how much I enjoyed this film and how good of a job it did to provide a snapshot into what life was like in France during the time period. The racism, the violence and hatred that begat more violence was shown in a fairly realistic form here.

And to be honest, if you met the people they were modeled after you'd probably find them incredibly unlikeable. Them being "boring" was likely how they were. They had no money, they had nothing else to do but sit, listen to stupid stories from kids and do the only thing they knew how to do, continue the circle of violence.

It takes looking beyond your own prejudice to see that even though they were unlikeable, they chose not to murder the skinhead that, likely, would have killed them if Vinz hadn't stepped in. They're someone's child, someone's friend. They're flawed, and the nature surrounding them keeps them flawed. Until the cycle is broken, it will keep on.

And, in fact, the police officer killing them makes an even bigger point: if you can't trust those who are supposed to protect you from violence, who can you trust? Did they deserve to even have the "cop" pull his gun? A million times no.

I'm just sorry for those that only want to take films like this at face value. As much as I didn't like Vinz, I had a very strong emotional reaction to his death.

Just because people are annoying, commit petty crimes, struggle with their own sense of right and wrong... It doesn't mean they deserve to die.