MovieChat Forums > GoldenEye (1995) Discussion > Goldeneye vs Licence To Kill

Goldeneye vs Licence To Kill


It's a tricky one for me but I'd just about go with LTK.

That's how your brother squealed, when I broke his ****ing neck!

reply

Goldeneye definitely revitalised the Bond franchise, but at the same time, it definitely plays to formula. Bond investigates plot, meets bad girl, meets good girl, meets villain, escapes some easy deathtraps and then stops the villain's plot, which involves another Bond staple - the space satellite.

LTK, on the other hand, was really quite groundbreaking, because the villain was no world-conqueror. He was just a drug lord who wanted to find a method of getting his supplies from spot A to spot B, and as much as Bond Girls like Natalya and Xenia are capable of handling themselves or fighting Bond, respectively, Pam Bouvier's definitely a stand out Bond Girl and capable of operating outside of Bond. Dalton's Bond is also better there, than in TLD.

So I don't particularly enjoy LTK as much as Goldeneye, but I still really think it might be the better Bond film in terms of quality and originality.

reply

Goldeneye 10/10
Licence to kil 9/10

both great Bond

reply

My thoughts excactly

reply

LTK was not cheap and tacky. It was an expensive production. And what is wrong with a winking fish?

That's how your brother squealed, when I broke his ****ing neck!

reply

GoldenEye for me.

reply

Both excellent but LTK takes it.

reply

Theres just a point where the absurd and bizarre have to be seperated.

I suppose if I'm suppose to accept Bond as fully capable of making one-liners every 10-15 minutes, then sure a fish can wink all it wants. Although I was never really sure if a fish has eyelids though.

reply

GoldenEye

"Hello, Ben. Welcome back to the land of the living" - John Locke

reply

Goldeneye vs Licence To Kill


GoldenEye (1995) wins in my book although i liked 'Licence to Kill' (1989) as it's one of the better Bond films out there overall. plus LTK has one of the most memorable bad guys (i.e. Robert Davi) in all the bond films which also helps it.


------------------
but in general, my top two bond films ever are...

1.Casino Royale (2006) (9/10) (best bond film ever because not only is it a solid bond film it's a great stand alone film that ranks up there with some of the very best films out there in general)

2.GoldenEye (1995) (8-9/10, ill be generous and give it a 9/10 though ;) (but based against ALL FILMS IN GENERAL it's pretty much a 8/10) ... this also has my favorite 'bond girl' ever in it (i.e. Izabella Scorupco) to which sure don't hurt the films odds and i think it's music was a nice touch as it gives it a different feel from a high percentage of the other bond films which helps it 'stand out'.)

then probably either... 'Goldfinger' (1964) (8/10) (a great bond film that was partially carried by Connery/Blackman's chemistry) or 'Licence to Kill' (1989) (8/10) or something close to that... either way, as for me 3rd and 4th and so on would be something from Connery or Dalton era and i think 'Licence to Kill' was the better Dalton film of the two mainly because it has one of the most memorable bad guys (i.e. Robert Davi) in it out of all the Bond films (and not to mention LTK has better bond girls (mainly Carey Lowell) to vs The Living Daylights (1987))



---
My Vote History ... http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=11026826
---

reply

I used to love Gondeneye, but just having watched it again, it is surprising how Moore-ish the movie is, including the ridiculous product placement for Perrier, the worst since Moonraker and 7 UP. Just a really silly and formulaic movie. I also realized how weak Pierce Brosnan is as Bond, he displays no toughness at all, nothing even close to what Sean Connery or Timothy Dalton displayed.

So yeah, for the first time I have to say Licence to Kill is the better movie.

reply

GoldenEye is much better for several reasons, starting with the fact that it is a Bond movie, whereas LTK is not.

"ridiculous product placement"

Well, at least they didn't say "Nice watch" - "OMEGA!" - "Beautiful!" or shove SONY products on the viewer's face every 2 minutes. That was left for the Craig movies.

"Pierce Brosnan is as Bond, he displays no toughness at all,"

His fight with 006 in GE, with Stamper in TND and the swordfight in DAD are far superior to any Dalton fight. Dalton is the least physically threatening Bond, even below Roger Moore. Not that it matters anyway, because we're not talking about Bloodsport here, but since you brought it up....

reply

GoldenEye is much better for several reasons, starting with the fact that it is a Bond movie, whereas LTK is not.


Well, let's see...LTK stars a character named James Bond...who fights guys...solves a big problem in the world...kills off a villain...and then gets the girl (more or less) in the end. Sounds like a Bond film to me!

Well, at least they didn't say "Nice watch" - "OMEGA!" - "Beautiful!" or shove SONY products on the viewer's face every 2 minutes. That was left for the Craig movies.


That could also be seen as the filmmakers' attempt to tie Craig's "new" Bond to the Bond that we knew and loved, as both the Rolex (Vesper's first guess) and Omega watches have always staple parts of Bond's arsenal. But you're right, besides that, product placement. And I didn't see any in GE or LTK...

Wait...why am I arguing against you, I like GE better too...guess I'm just picky. Apologies.




I rather liked Baines. We shared the same bootmaker.

reply

"LTK stars a character named James Bond...who fights guys...solves a big problem in the world...kills off a villain...and then gets the girl (more or less) in the end. Sounds like a Bond film to me!"

Well, obviously "not a Bond film" is a figure of speech. But LTK is the least Bond-like Bond film ever. Bond is working on his own, not for HMSS, and there is no sophistication or glamour. Even QOS has these things to a (small) degree.

reply

[deleted]

I totally agree with you, uk. What a stupid thing to complain about in ANY film. Does anyone ever remember when films didnt have product placement, and a can of beer just said "beer" or chips just said "chips"? LOL. I think product placement makes things mroe realistic in a film. Can you imagine more films like "vacation", which starred a vehicle (the family truckster) that doesnt exist? Especially a Bond film?

reply

I changed my voet,voted a 10 for both

http://www.imfdb.org/images/f/fc/PredatorSP1-10.jpg

reply

Licence to Kill is one of my least favorite Bond films for many reasons, mostly because of poor acting (Everett McGill, Benicio Del Toro, Talisa Soto and David Hedison all made abominable performances) and too much imitation of popular contemporary thrillers and TV series (Miami Vice, Lethal Weapon, Die Hard).

GoldenEye on the other hand was not ashamed of being a BOND film with capital letters, and the producers weren't afraid to update the formula for the new generation, something that Licence to Kill avoided (it looks even older than The Living Daylights!). So it's GoldenEye for me.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=5184666

reply

[deleted]

Tough choice. I like LTK and Goldeneye.

I'll give the edge to LTK as it's more original. But Goldeneye is a classic too

reply

[deleted]

Goldeneye easily beats out LTK IMHO. Im a big fan of the Dalton films, especially LTK, but Goldeneye has the Martin Campbell touch. It has an overly confident Bond, an intriguing villian with close ties to mi6, AND A GREAT HENCHWOMAN WITH ONATOPP!! The cast is top notch, and all the acting is so well done, along with the actual filming, that it really stands the test of time as one of the best Bond films of all time.

So Goldeneye gets my vote!

reply

[deleted]

Licence to Kill I would say, but only just, as although I think the Brosnan era is weak, Goldeneye was the best of his films. If you had however said what is best between Goldeneye and The Living Daylights, then I am afraid Goldeneye would get blown away.

reply

GoldenEye feels more polished than Licence to Kill. Maybe part of it has to do with it being a "newer" film, but one of the biggest flaws with Licence to Kill is that it feels like it was done on the cheap (as if it were a Cannon produced movie) or as if it was made for TV. A big advantage that GoldenEye as when compared to LTK is that for the first time in a long time, we have a Bond movie that truly feels like it was directed. In the Bond movies up until that point (towards the end of Roger Moore's run and on through Timothy Dalton's run), it kind of seemed like the series was going on autopilot. They had John Glen, who is admittedly more of a workman like filmmaker and not an out and out "auteur" like Martin Campbell, which made the series feel a bit stale and unimaginative by the time that LTK rolled around.

reply

This is quite a rant so click away now if you're not interested in thorough opinions...

'Licence to Kill' ...has it's moments - original pre-credits, good thug, gritty story & one of the best aquatic sequences in a bond film (the 'WaveCrest' boat/plane scene) - but ultimately it fell short due to some sloppy scripting in parts (the scene between Q and the two girls in the hotel is exceptionally cringeworthy) and weak female roles (the worst since TMWTGG i.m.o).
It did not, I'm afraid, feel or run like a Bond film (and before you shout "oooh you philestine - just because it didnt have a fantasy car with gadgets and lots of stupid puns scripted in..!" Keep yer shirt on - because neither did 'Casino Royale', and that really did feel like a Bond-film)

It was a half-decent attempt at creating a story in the tone of Fleming's books, which, though a nice gesture, EON just didn't quite manage to do. Don't get me wrong - I really WANTED to like LTK... but ended up only warming to parts of it.

Dalton was not to blame - he carried the series when other franchises grew stronger and out-box-officed Bond. (think Die Hard, Batman, Indiana J, Back to the Future et al.)
He was quite simply the true incarnation of Ian Fleming's anti-hero, and the best actor to have taken it on so far (better even than Craig, yes).

For a few mintues on the silver screen in 1987, Timothy Dalton 'was' 007. To expand: the opening scene of 'The Living Daylights' (after the Gibraltar pre-credits), where 007 meets with his ally to protect Koskov during his defection, is the one (and perhaps only) piece of cinema that truly reflects the literary James Bond. When I (and trust me, many fellow Bond-nuts) read the books, Dalton is 007.

But legal wranglings led to six years without Dalton showing what he could really do if he were given the 'Bond formula' with a script tailored to his strenghts...




'GoldenEye' ...was, to me as a then 14 year-old adolecent, the greatest Bond film ever to grace the screen. Of course, I revised this opinion a few years later after having seen the other outings and reading some of Fleming's better stories (LALD, FRWL & OHMSS for those who are interested), but in 1995 I was blown away by Brosnan. His smirking, 'look at me' kind of arrogance appealed to me at the time, though I went on to loathe him in the subsequent films.

One factor that contributed to me not liking the rest of Brosnan's outings has to be the scripts. GoldenEye though had a decent one - it was grittier than Brosnan could really handle.
He managed well enough but, truth be told, his lack of range & physicality show at times. The "Kill her..." in the train, the "No... for ME" at the film's climax... all suited to Dalton's take on 007.

The pre credits' is one of the series' best, and the film does actually have a decent screenplay, unlike it's younger siblings. Brosnan excells in the face to face verbal jousting, but he just doesn't cut the mustard when he has to be imposing or act outside of his comfort zone (read: facial smirk, then pun... shortly followed by another, slightly altered, facial smirk). He's not entirely comfortable doing action, and thus is more Moore than Connery to my mind. An overriding neccesity for a believable 007 must surely be that he can be tough when the need arises?!
His über-bland mid-atlantic accent doesn't really do him any favours either. Why couldn't he at least TRY to sound 'Public school' English?

But wait, this isn't an excercise in Brosnan-bashing. I genuinely think he saved the franchise from Cold War exile, and his immediate begign mass-appeal - coupled with that (mildly irritatingly) suave charm of his helped to put 007 back on the movie-map. I just sort of expected the guy to 'evolve' the role a bit more than he did.
He could have gone from strength to strength after 1995, but instead he indulged the 'lowest-common-denominator' screenplays & scripts put before him beneath heaps of cash and said 'thanks very much', instead of investing some time and professional pride in moulding the James Bond character and pressuring the producers into delivering better stories.

Perhaps this is unfair. Maybe Brosan just lacks judgement and efficiently hides the fact that he's not the brightest spark in the industry behind that sticky charm of his. I think that he was, quite possibly, simply pleased to be along for the ride and didn't want the party to end for a few films yet.


Unlike Daniel Craig, who is dead-serious about further development of the character he has taken on so convincingly...



The best of the two?
Licence to Kill, though only just(suprise you there, eh). Admittedly I enjoyed GoldenEye more upon first viewing, but LTK had the one overriding factor that any 007 movie needs : a good James Bond (well, duh?)

Because no matter how well a film does at the bank, or how entertaining it is - the one thing that MAKES a James Bond movie is having the leading man well portrayed (why else do people still rate You Only Live Twice and Diamonds Are Forever as half-decent Bond films? Cause they had Connery. Other than that they were dismal.
And Dalton almost pips him to the title... almost :-)






"Imagine a world with no hypothetical questions..."

reply

Goldeneye was my personal favorite of the whole franchise, but LTK is in my top 5.

"Have you ever felt a knife cut through human flesh and scrape the bone beneath?" -Ghostface

reply

'GoldenEye' ...was, to me as a then 14 year-old adolecent, the greatest Bond film ever to grace the screen.
I have to say, at 15, I think I just missed what you're describing. I had seen Dalton's films on VHS repeatedly by the time I bought my ticket to GoldenEye, and Brosnan felt rather milquetoast by comparison. In fact, that's was the overriding impression I had of the film in general: blah. Compared to the fury of Licence to Kill's personal vendetta, the whole 006 betrayal just didn't do it for me. Dare I say it...boring?

It's a shame, because there are things I like about GoldenEye -- the pre-credits sequence, Sean Bean, Robbie Coltrane, the lingering aftertaste of the Cold War, the spectacular hand-to-hand fight at the end -- but I don't watch it very often. Whereas I continue to watch LTK regularly, always with something like rapt fascination.

But it just goes to show you how important casting is: replace Brosnan with Dalton and I'd almost certainly be a believer. As things are, I can only shake my head in wonder at the people who suggest that GoldenEye even holds a candle to a movie like Casino Royale.

The N64 game was pretty boss though.

reply

There was no legal wrangling. Dalton almost killed the Bond franchise. Cause he was the worst Bond until that point in time. He wasnt Bond at all, cause he was Flemings Bond. And noone out there give a sh*t about this dead and incredible incompetent author. All he did was writing boring cold war era books. Thos books would have never been sold even a decade later wouldnt have people read it just cause of the Bond movie. Bond only started to become famous when Fleming was kicked out of the franchise, cause he never understood what Bond was. So stating "xxx is like Flemings Bond" is essentially stating "This is the biggest loser of all and gonna kill the franchise".

reply