"I am a real music fan (always have been) thus I see music for what it is, an art form and entertainment, business has nothing to do with music. Therefore, "singers" who see their art as an opportunity to get rich (the Britney Spearses, boybands and hip-hop stars of our era) have no place in my collection."
Isn't naivety cute? So what you're saying, is that musicians who become so for the sake of making money are worthless? That makes total sense. After all, 'Real' artists like David Bowie, Tom Waits, Frank Zappa... They all live in mud huts because their music was 'art' and therefore they didn't try to make money off of it.
Musicians become musicians because they love music. They become better musicians so they can afford to quit their day jobs and dedicate their lives to being musicians. This in turn, focusses their energy into becoming even better musicians, which means they're better at their jobs, which means they make more.
Suddenly, they are making LOTS of money being musicians. This isn't 'selling out.' I know it's cool for the uneducated and the ignoramuses of the world to trash the bands that 'sell out,' but they have no idea what that means.
In reality (you know, that place where the rest of us live) the only difference between Brittney Spears and the Rolling Stones is that the Rolling Stones aren't crap. Both are rich off of their music. Both did so by selling records and playing shows and all that. One released a seminal album entitled "Sticky Fingers," whereas the other released tripe called "Hit Me Baby One More Time."
That is the only difference. The business aspect: that part that lets them do things like eat, afford housing, etc. is the same.
"[Are CDs and LPs available at a price where it is worth buying them? Then I will most definitely buy them! If not, I will download them illegally, and wait to see the artist live (and I do watch several artists in concert every year). Sorry, but for me it's all about the music, not making anybody rich with inflated prices!"
Let's compare this to other industries. According to your philosophy (It's a stretch referring to it as a philosophy, as most philosophies are backed by logic and thought, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt) you would:
A: hear about a new restaurant opening in town and hear people talk about it. not being sure if you like it, you go there, eat the food, and then skip out on the bill, only to decide later if you liked it enough to go back to pay for a meal.
B: Go to Target (or, more predictably, some cheesy place with, to quote you "inflated prices," like Hot Topic), and sneak out with new pants, shirts, shoes, etc. You try them on when you get home, tossing whatever doesn't fit into the trash and returning to buy whatever does fit some later time, a time after which the store has already had to increase its prices to recover the revenue lost from the previous items 'illegally downloaded.'
Those examples are exactly what you're doing to the music industry. When you steal music from an artist, it means they're not being paid. if they're not being paid, they will no longer afford to be musicians and would have to find other jobs. The 'inflated prices' (There's no such thing as an inflated price if people are willing to pay it. So long as people keep buying records at X dollars, then the record companies have no reason to charge less... it's called basic free market economics, and it works) only seem to be growing because of the BILLIONS of dollars lost each year to illegal downloads.
So, for you, it's NOT all about the music. You don't care about the music. You only care about YOU, and your pocketbook. People who care about art understand what it takes to keep that art form alive and kicking and succeeding, whereas selfish, narcissistic fools are much more interested in themselves and their appearance, and stealing music gives the appearance of a large (and therefore, well-learned) collection. Unfortunately, the only people you can impress in such a way are other fools who rerally shouldn't be worth your time, had you any sense.
have a great day! :)
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sambuca
16 years ago
After all, 'Real' artists like David Bowie, Tom Waits, Frank Zappa... They all live in mud huts because their music was 'art' and therefore they didn't try to make money off of it.
There is a difference between making money off their art, and exploiting their fans (mostly naive teenagers) to make a quick buck.
The 'inflated prices' (There's no such thing as an inflated price if people are willing to pay it. So long as people keep buying records at X dollars, then the record companies have no reason to charge less... it's called basic free market economics, and it works) only seem to be growing because of the BILLIONS of dollars lost each year to illegal downloads.
So you are saying that illegal downloading is a direct cause of inflated prices? Let's see what you claim is the cause of inflated prices in petrol? People drilling their own petrol illegally? Or the cause of inflated prices in vegetables is people picking their own vegetables from fields illegally? The system works to support consumerism and exploit the average buyer, whether you want to face the facts or not is your call.
Or perhaps you have a comfortable enough living (through being a record label exec perhaps?) that allows you to buy unlimited amounts of stuff and not get bothered about prices. That's fair enough, but do you think everyone else can afford that? Newsflash: An ever-increasing number of households around the world are finding it hard to afford the basics - because people who obviously share your mindset think it's cool to charge ridiculous prices even for commodities like water and electricity, while they see their payment being rooted (if they manage to avoid being "let off", that is).
hear about a new restaurant opening in town and hear people talk about it. not being sure if you like it, you go there, eat the food, and then skip out on the bill, only to decide later if you liked it enough to go back to pay for a meal.
No, I actually take care to read the prices on the menu outside the restaurant (or ask friends who suggested it) before walking in.
When you steal music from an artist, it means they're not being paid. if they're not being paid, they will no longer afford to be musicians and would have to find other jobs.
Wonder how Radiohead, Green Day and so many other important bands have managed to put albums up for free download online... I guess they must be catering to "the uneducated and the ignoramuses of the world"
In reality (you know, that place where the rest of us live)...
The place where YOU live? I seriously hope that was a joke...
Have a nice day yourself :)
-Goodnight, mother of six!
-Goodnight, father of two!
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littlebrother_42
16 years ago
"There is a difference between making money off their art, and exploiting their fans (mostly naive teenagers) to make a quick buck."
This is where you show your youth and lack of historical perspective. it's true that today, in 2008, Brittney's fans are all teenagers and the Rolling Stones' fans are all older and wiser, but you fail to realize the forty years history of the Rolling Stones. When the Stones, the Beatles, David Bowie, Johnny Cash, etc. all got their starts it was in front of crowds of *gasp* teenagers. There is NO difference, aside from the quality of the music. The Beatles had throngs of screaming prepubescent girls fainting for them, Brittney has throngs of prebuscent girls fainting for her. They're making money off the same type of people. Period.
"So you are saying that illegal downloading is a direct cause of inflated prices?"
Actually, no. I don't believe the prices are inflated. So long as millions of people are buying a product, especially a product not necessary for the basics of survival, that products price isn't inflated. A price is only inflated when the market fails to support it, and since record execs and musicians are still making millions, it seems the market is still doing fine.
"Let's see what you claim is the cause of inflated prices in petrol? People drilling their own petrol illegally? Or the cause of inflated prices in vegetables is people picking their own vegetables from fields illegally?"
The price of oil is rising because oil is traded against the dollar, which is falling (Thanks, Bernanke...), among other reasons (which aren't relevant to the topic at hand). Vegetables are rising because of this idiocy called 'ethanol.' For some reason, people have been duped into thinking that burning their food supply is a good idea... (This is what happens when the government intervenes with the market, which is the exact opposite of capitalism.)
"The system works to support consumerism and exploit the average buyer, whether you want to face the facts or not is your call."
The average buyer IS consumerism. The buyer is NOT being exploited. I understand that you're just another random anti-business lemming, but businesses cannot survive if they abuse their customer base. The Buyers have all the power, ESPECIALLY in an industry, like the arts, where the money involved isn't spent for survival but for entertainment. if the buyers were being exploited, they'd simply stop buying and the market would see as correction as the businesses would re-align themselves with the needs of their customers. This hasn't happened (well, it happened a little. CD prices HAVE dropped a good deal in the past decade), which means the buyers still support the industry, for the most part.
"Or perhaps you have a comfortable enough living (through being a record label exec perhaps?) that allows you to buy unlimited amounts of stuff and not get bothered about prices."
No, I'm just not an idiot with my budget.
"That's fair enough, but do you think everyone else can afford that? Newsflash: An ever-increasing number of households around the world are finding it hard to afford the basics - because people who obviously share your mindset think it's cool to charge ridiculous prices even for commodities like water and electricity, while they see their payment being rooted (if they manage to avoid being "let off", that is). "
Things must be hard for you in Britain, but that's the problem with an overbearing socialist government (which yours increasingly is) that seeks to control every aspect of your pocketbook.
Here in the States, unemployment just fell back to below 5%, the DOW is still at 13,000, over half the nation's 'poor' OWN their own homes (and don't shout foreclosure at me. less than one half of one percent of homes are under foreclosure), and we're over sixteen years removed from our last (and very mild) recession. We're doing great, and have been for YEARS.
"No, I actually take care to read the prices on the menu outside the restaurant (or ask friends who suggested it) before walking in. "
That's is equivalent to reading the track list while standing in the record store. You're actually taking the music, which is the equivalent to eating without paying.
"Wonder how Radiohead, Green Day and so many other important bands have managed to put albums up for free download online... I guess they must be catering to "the uneducated and the ignoramuses of the world" "
First off, Green Day is NOT an important band. They're a crappy faux-punk band...
However, the albums they put online for free. Were these their first albums when they were still trying to make it? Or did they do this when they had already sold millions and could afford it? They didn't giver their stuff away for free until they could afford to. AND: they only did so because it earned them great press, which actually helped their sales. You give one album away for free and millions love it, those millions will buy your other albums and pay for your concert tickets.
Also, Green Day and Radiohead and other OFFER their music for free on line. That's perfectly fine. If a band is inviting you to download their stuff. Awesome. You weren't talking about this, thought. You specifically stated that you illegally download music.
Speaking of inflated prices: how can you complain about cd prices but still go to concerts? :)
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HanneliJr
15 years ago
littlebrother_42 you're my new hero. Illegal downloading pisses me off, I could launch into a long scathing, and completely irrefutable speech on the subject, but you seemed to do a good job, and right now as of typing this, I am way too tired to expel the required energy.
---------------->
Insert witty, amusing and pithy diatribe here.
...Formerly KnifeySpooney...
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skassemblyneeded
15 years ago
" A: hear about a new restaurant opening in town and hear people talk about it. not being sure if you like it, you go there, eat the food, and then skip out on the bill, only to decide later if you liked it enough to go back to pay for a meal.
B: Go to Target (or, more predictably, some cheesy place with, to quote you "inflated prices," like Hot Topic), and sneak out with new pants, shirts, shoes, etc. You try them on when you get home, tossing whatever doesn't fit into the trash and returning to buy whatever does fit some later time, a time after which the store has already had to increase its prices to recover the revenue lost from the previous items 'illegally downloaded.' "
You realize that this isn't really a good example because this is inferring that the artists get all the money that comes from a record, not true. In fact they get barely any money from record sales, unless they are on their own label (not including acts who are on their own subsidiaries of larger labels). In fact most bands make money off touring and merchandise sales... so if you pirate a bands new album, and then go use the money you saved to go to their concert and buy a t-shirt its in fact better for the band than buying their album.
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