Stupid gun mistake - Desperado (1995) Discussion

[–] FilmernasGud 17 years ago

Interesting fact, thank you. But i guess there are many bloopers in this movie.

Dawn of the Dead ´78 is the best movie ever.

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[–] RARanieri 17 years ago

Thanks. I'm glad you found the information interesting. Most movies have dozens of plot-holes and mistakes. To me, that is just sloppy film-making.

A great writer once said, "Fiction has to be more logical than real life." Film-makers should follow this advice.

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Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain.

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[–] Resistance786 16 years ago

who cares. Its just a film and a very successful one at that. Hardly sloppy.

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[–] RARanieri 16 years ago

Obviously you don’t care.

People who think about what they watch do care.

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Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain.

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[–] FilmernasGud 16 years ago

Yes, even Spielbetg - movies has. Atleast Saving Private Ryan have a few mistakes. It is sloppy, i must agree. But in the other hand the movie has peapole flying throw the air when they got shot. The movie is meanth to be in comic book - realy - over - the - top - stile. But if it excuses som sloppy details, its up to one and other to decide. I personly like the looks of that Gun. Much because of this silencer of his. But always fun to know how reality works.

But i personly dont agree with that great writer. Its good if the movie compares with realitys logic. But it dont have to beat it.

Dawn of the Dead ´78 is the best movie ever.

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[–] Cynicalruhf 16 years ago

you do realize that the was a guy shooting rockets from a guitar case right?

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[–] RARanieri 16 years ago

Actually, a small rocket launcher would fit in several types of guitar cases. So that scene is very unlikely, but not impossible.

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Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain.

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[–] Dr_Gonzo_Starkweather 16 years ago

True, a silencer would be pointless on a gun like this but if you did want to be a little more discreet then u could drill holes on the barrel, which would allow the air to escape in moany different places instead of just out of the barrel, hence reducing the overall noise. It should be noted though that drilling holes in a gun barrel is very dangerous.

www.myspace.com/decorated_like_a_grave

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[–] RARanieri 16 years ago

Yes, very true. If you drill holes in the top of the barrel to keep the recoil down, it's called "porting" the barrel.

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Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain.

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[–] tumbledowned 16 years ago

Could argue it was a flash guard/hider but the flash wasn't edited/ was edited into the final cut?

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[–] RARanieri 16 years ago

Usually, a flash guard is combined with a silencer to hide where you are when you fire. A flash guard alone would only work in a dark area where the sound of the shot would not give away your position.

As far as a gun-fight in a bar involving several people, neither a flash guard nor a silencer would do you much good.

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Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain.

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[–] ninjabiscuit 16 years ago

In my opinion, there are some movies where you can just check your brain at the door, because almost everything in them is going to be completely unrealistic and over the top.

While you raise a valid point about the fact that a silencer on a revolver makes no sense, I think the point is rendered moot by the fact that there are dozens, if not hundreds, of other unrealistic things in this movie. And I can easily picture one of those "attitude" directors like QT and Rodriguez say "screw it...that gun looks badass. I don't care whether it makes sense or not."

So if you can accept that premise, then everyone in this thread has a point. It is correct to say that the gun configuration makes no sense, because that's important to you, but it's also correct for others to say that the gun configuration doesn't matter, because they don't care that much about the realism and certainly aren't going to think any less of the movie because of it.

In my opinion, you simply can't hold all movies to the same set of standards. If I want authenticity and an accurate portayal of the setup and use of personal firearms in an urban, close-quarters environment involving multiple hostiles, this movie just isn't going to be my first stop. If I want "bad ass but admittedly unrealistic," this one's high on my list.

Fair enough?

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[–] RARanieri 16 years ago

I like Rodriguez's movies, including this one. And yes, action movies don't always care about realism. But how much trouble would it have been for Rodriguez to do a little research about how a silencer works, and which types of firearms can be silenced?

Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain.

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[–] Mr_Gray 16 years ago

You forget one important fact. Cheech Marin's character was an idiot. So he probably just put the silencer on the revolver to make it look stylish.
Besides peoplee love this kind of movies not for the realism or seriousness.

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[–] FilmernasGud 16 years ago

Hahaha! Great point. Even if there was bigger idiots than him in that movie.
Most peapole dont analyze movies, so in the big picture it works.
It is the biggest movie lovers that will take the hit.

Dawn of the Dead ´78 is the best movie ever.

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[–] RARanieri 16 years ago

You are the kind of person who would go to see "Braveheart" or "300", then if all the actors suddenly started using machine guns, you would yell, "Yeah dude, great, great!"

You simply wouldn’t notice anything wrong!

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Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain.

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[–] FilmernasGud 16 years ago

Who? Me? In that case, belive what you want. If you didnt like my way of writing, i apologice. I cant blame anyone for that.
But i never use the word "dude". Just wanted to make that VERY clear! :D
Its a big difference between Desperados universe and Bravehearts. Not saying one shouldent analyze Desperado, but i think its moore forgivable with bloopers
in Desperado. But its up to one and other to decide. I just fought what he written was funny. I know its wrong from realitys perspective that he used a Silencer on hes Revolver. But i liked that idea, sorry.

Dawn of the Dead ´78 is the best movie ever.

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[–] RARanieri 16 years ago

My response was intended more toward Mr. Gray than to you. You just seemed to agree with him.

Your way of writing is just fine. Everybody can like whatever they want to like. I just get annoyed when I notice a mistake in a movie, and mention it in a post, then some people reply, "It's just a movie. It ain't real. Who cares."

Well, you know what? The film-makers care! In a movie or TV film-crew, there are people whose job it is to make sure that the actors are wearing all the same clothes, and wearing their hair the same way, and standing in the exact same spots, and everything else for the continuity of the movie. Film-makers try NOT to make mistakes. Movies are supposed to be logical and make sense!

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Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain.

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[–] FilmernasGud 16 years ago

I mostly liked the idea of the Short Bartender to be an idiot, so he just pulled that silencer on. But i know it is a mistake neither the less.

Yeah. Its just that it arent good enough for the analyzers that know Revolvers in this case. But the mainstream peapole (who is not movie - lovers, and goes to a movie just for entertainment) i dont think have a problem with that gun - mistake, thats all. In that case they are not Gun - experts ofcourse.
But im realy glad we have these peapole who works on the set. I dont even want to imagine how it would have looked like without them. There is no doubt the crew wants to do a good movie as possible.

Dawn of the Dead ´78 is the best movie ever.

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[–] derirre357 16 years ago

To me it depends on the movie - if it is something liek Heat such a mistake would be unforgivable, in Desperado I think it is completely ok :)

Women are like deer - You can't just charge in, you gotta stalk 'em...

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[–] FilmernasGud 16 years ago

Yeah, i think it was something like that i was trying to say, before.
I like the look on that Gun, and in Desperados universe there aint much logic.
Peapole are flying high up in the air when they get shot, Mariachi jumps backwards without injury hes back at all, etc. So i personly dont mind it.
But thats my opinion. I fully understand them who doesent agree, because its different matter of mistake. But for me that combination works.

Dawn of the Dead ´78 is the best movie ever.

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[–] Mr_Gray 16 years ago

What I meant was that in some movies the director intended to make the movie a little goofie. In Desperado it's clear that R. Rodrigiuez never wanted to make a realistic movie. In a more serious movie I would also be annoyed by the little mistakes, especially if you can see them during the first viewing. But not in Desperado(I mean when people are shooting rockets from their guitar cases you shouldn't be annoyed by little weapon mistakes )

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[–] RARanieri 16 years ago

I agree with your point, but not completely.

Yes, of course, Rodrigiuez was making an escapist movie. But even an escapist movie has to have a sense of internal logic. Actually, there are rocket launchers small enough to fit into a suitcase, or a guitar case. It is impractical, but possible.

On the other hand, only one type of revolver was ever manufactured to work with a silencer, and it was NOT the one used in "Desperado"!

I own a DVD copy of Desperado. I like this movie. I just wish directors would pay more attention, and give viewers credit for having more intelligence!

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Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain.

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[–] Studman_Productions 15 years ago

Yes, of course, Rodrigiuez was making an escapist movie. But even an escapist movie has to have a sense of internal logic.

no it doesnt have to have a sense of internal logic.

I like this movie. I just wish directors would pay more attention, and give viewers credit for having more intelligence!

they do pay attention! of course they noticed that the gun wouldn't be silenced but, as stated before, they did it because it looks cool.

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[–] RARanieri 15 years ago

<<< no it doesnt have to have a sense of internal logic. >>>

Any work of Art MUST have it’s own sense of logic! Music, poetry, fiction, film, plays, paintings. ANY work of art!

If you don’t know this, then you know nothing about Art! Educate yourself!

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Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain.

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[–] Studman_Productions 15 years ago

Any work of Art MUST have it’s own sense of logic! Music, poetry, fiction, film, plays, paintings. ANY work of art!

no i don't think it does, i'm afraid. films like this play by their own rules. and i like it. it is not neccessary, in my opinion. you have your opinion and i have mine but to say that they MUST have it is incorrect.

If you don’t know this, then you know nothing about Art! Educate yourself!

apparently you need to educate yourself a little bit more...

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[–] RARanieri 15 years ago

<<< apparently you need to educate yourself a little bit more... >>>

Until you successfully complete some film classes, art classes, and music classes, your opinion of art means no more to me than would the opinion of a chimp who can finger-paint!

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Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain.

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[–] Studman_Productions 15 years ago

Until you successfully complete some film classes, art classes, and music classes, your opinion of art means no more to me than would the opinion of a chimp who can finger-paint!

well i guess we are in the same boat since your opinion doesn't mean squat to me! the difference is i let you have one! and by the way you don't learn everything in school. see the world; it's a grand place!

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[–] The_Dying_Flutchman 15 years ago

You still out there dying yer hair?

Nothing is more beautiful than nothing.

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] ozguny 16 years ago

Actually there are silenced revolvers, very few but there are. It is true that a normal revolver can't be silenced, because of the gap between cylinder and barrel. But few revolvers can seal that gap by moving the cyclinder forward:

"To achieve that, the cylinder moves ahead a bit when hammer is cocked, enclosing a barrel breech area with recess in the front of each chamber. The cartridge, unique to that design, had long case with tapered mouth and a bullet totally enclosed inside the case. When cylinder moves forward, the cartridge case mouth entered the barrel breech and was used as additional seal. This was a complicated mechanism, useful mostly when guns were used with silencer.
"

Read this article: http://world.guns.ru/handguns/HG102-E.HTM

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[–] RARanieri 16 years ago

Thanks very much for the information, Ozguny. I had never heard of the Nagant revolver.

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Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain.

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[–] ozguny 16 years ago

You're welcome RARanieri!

I agree that the movie would be much better if the gun fights were realistic. I really liked the plot and the athmosphere, that is a man plays the guitar, is a musician and is also a very good gunman.
I can accept banderas flying and shooting in the air because he's a good gunmen. But the last gunfight where 3 mariachis unite and fight without getting cover were terrible. Bucho's man in the truck with an m4 or m16(really can't remember) can't hit them while mariachis are sitting ducks really frustrated me. An average soldier would hit them in the head in a few seconds from that distance. And there were many more crap like that: mariachis are there waiting their turn(!) to shoot(they shoot like they are on a line) and a dozen of men can't kill them with rifles, etc.

IMHO If the gun fights were realistic then this movie would be much superior.

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[–] FilmernasGud 16 years ago

"I can accept banderas flying and shooting in the air because he's a good gunmen."
Yeah, hes pretty good. :D

Thats true ofcourse. Quampa and Quino would be pretty easy (even if they have heavy firepower) for that force of badguys to kill, pretty instantly, in reality. But this isnt a realistic movie at all, as i see it. There are many examples one can bring up. Its incredeably over the top, almost silly.
And that is partly why i love this movie.
Rodriguez have his wonderfull absord vision of filmmaking.
Some like it, others dont.
But i respect your opinion ofcourse, i just wanted to deliver mine. :)
I realy liked what you written.

Dawn of the Dead ´78 is the best movie ever.

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[–] PreachCaleb 16 years ago

Wrong, average soldiers are not trained to hit anyone in the head.

This movie is not meant to be realistic. The movie itself, like the story that Buscemi tells at the beginning, is an exaggerated legend. That's why the gunfights aren't realistic. They're not supposed to be.

Always-Severus Snape

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[–] FilmernasGud 16 years ago

I think so to. A ordinary soldier is just trained to kill and survive.
But either way these two would in the long run, be no match for 2 Limmos filled with enemies. As in many Arnold - movies the badguys aiming isnt their best, even if they have time and perfekt oportunity to finish him of.
Schwarzenegger is the only one that can hit to kill. If the badguys are lucky they hit a arm ore leg.
Exacly like the entire plot. A lonely Mariachi/Gunslinger is going to take him on a entire Maffia - gang, by himself. In a realistic movie he would probably died pretty quickly already in Buscemis story.

The movie itself is so absord. Like how natural would it be with a Colombian hitman running around with Knifes, in reality. Even typing the Phonenumbers with it. For an (of all crazy) examples.

My opinion, that is. :)

But i think that flashback sequence in the beginning not realy happened that way Buscemi deskribed it. That shoot ofcourse took place, but i dont think he pointed hes Shotgon at him, ore behaved in that ruthless way towards the Bartender when he walked in. Mariachi is a realy nice man.

Rodriguez unrealistic stile is maybe closest to John Woo´s vision.

Dawn of the Dead ´78 is the best movie ever.

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[–] kkhsiivonen 15 years ago

Aren't silencer in general just a thing for target practice? In movies the're used to muffle most of the sound, so shooting becomes a quiet act. In reality, it's still quite loud, but doesn't damage ears.

So I guess silencer anywhere in movies are usually misused

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[–] RARanieri 15 years ago

<<< Aren't silencer in general just a thing for target practice? In movies the're used to muffle most of the sound, so shooting becomes a quiet act. In reality, it's still quite loud, but doesn't damage ears.

So I guess silencer anywhere in movies are usually misused >>>

Silencers are only as good as the talent of the people who make them. A poorly made silencer won’t muffle much of the sound, and might even be dangerous to use, since the bullet must travel cleanly through the silencer on a straight trajectory.

Only one model of revolver was ever made that pushed the cylinder up against the barrel when the bullet was fired. That would force all the gases to exit from the front of the barrel, which means a silencer would work on that gun. Putting a silencer on any other revolver is worthless!

Silencers made by professional companies for the military, and other government agencies, are very effective at reducing the sound of a gunshot. Take a sheet of writing paper, hold it up with one hand, then flick the paper with a finger from your other hand. The tap you hear is about as loud as a gunshot through a professionally-made silencer.

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Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain.

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[–] alexgoldex 13 years ago

From IMFDB: The Tarasco bartender (Cheech Marin) uses a suppressed Smith & Wesson Model 19 revolver. In reality, very few revolvers can be sound suppressed because of the gap between the cylinder and barrel. The 1895 Russian Nagant revolver is one of the rare revolvers that can be sound suppressed. Upon firing, the cylinder moves forward and seal with the barrel, leaving no gap.

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[–] RARanieri 13 years ago

Thanks for pointing out the IMFDB note which I personally wrote after starting this thread a long time ago.

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Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain.

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[–] Littlebitsofgaming 13 years ago

I thought I was watching a kick ass modern western with amazing shootouts and action.

But it's a documentary on guns instead.
Thanks OP for brining fourth this utterly irrelevant fact. I can now see the film for what it is.

Jesus died for our sins. As he's already dead...sin away.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] Littlebitsofgaming 13 years ago

What's your problem?
I admited I was wrong.

Clearly the doumentary on guns that this film is made a grave error.
You irrelevant fact makes perfect sense in a film like this that was clearly 100% fact based and is in no way fictional.

Another stupid goof I think should be brought up in a film is King Kong. I mean gorillas do not grow that big. Don't even get me started on the dinosaurs.
Then there is The Exorcist. Everyone knows actual demonic possession is nothing like what is shown in this documentary.
Or one of my all time favourite documentaries. Back To The Future. I mean, time traveling DeLoreans don't even exist...what a mistake they made there.

Seriously, film-makers have no idea what they are doing.
It's a good job there exist people like your good self that know better otherwise no one on the planet would realise the errors made in these fact based documentaries.

I congratulate you sir on a well made and in no way pointless observation.

Jesus died for our sins. As he's already dead...sin away.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] Littlebitsofgaming 13 years ago

Really do not understand you.
Someone agrees with you and congratulates you on a well made observation...and all you can do is insult?

We could go on...

Frankenstien. Digging up dead bodies and piecing them together then reanimating them via lightning. Everyone knows that's a goof.

Or how about Superman. An alien from a planet that does not even exist...the writers messed up there eh?

Piranha. Now there's a goof as they are not predatory and are infact scavengers. They don't attack live meat and can't strip flesh to the bone in seconds.

The Terminator, a film in which a killer cyborg is sent through time to kill the unborn leader of a human resistance. Wow, even I don't know where to start with the goofs there.

What the hell is wrong with Highlander, a bunch of guys that run around chopping each others head's off...and they are immortal. There's a huge goof right there.

I bow down to your powers of observation when watching these 100% fact based documentaries.
It's people just like you that make watching movies so damn enjoyable with you 'facts' brought up in contrast to these fact based pictures.
I wish to thank you for bringing all this to light, as obviously a silienced revolver is such an important plot device. The documentary just no longer can tell a coherant story. That's how important your observation is.
You sir are a genius.

Jesus died for our sins. As he's already dead...sin away.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] RARanieri 13 years ago

Is this as clever as you can be? Hardly worth reading. You are simply a moron!

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Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain.

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[–] RARanieri 13 years ago

No, you are still not clever! And yes, you are still simply a moron!

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Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain.

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[–] Littlebitsofgaming 13 years ago

As I'm not trying to be "clever"...thanks, I guess.
I guess I'm a moron then as I agree with you. I wonder what that makes you?
I must be moronic for pointing out a "mistake" in these 100% fact based documentary films just like you have done I guess?

We're both morons then...great.
At least you can admit it.

You make a good point, how many times do I have to keep highlighting this?
You're a genuis for taking time out of your life to bring up these film destroying "mistakes".
Obvioulsy it's such an important factor to the film, you felt the need to bring it up in the first place.

Again, you are genius. Yet by your OWN definition a moron too.
A moronic genuis?

Jesus died for our sins. As he's already dead...sin away.

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[–] 13 years ago

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