People who want to weep for inmates on death row should think about the terrible heinous acts that got them there! They are pieces of human garbage! And most imporantly we have the death penalty because god allows us to. Atleast death row inmates know when they are going to die. It will give them a good chance to be square with the lord again!
shareGod allows us to? How, by not interjecting? If that's really your baseline on why it's okay then how can you call those inmates pieces of human garbage? After all, God allows them to partake in heinous acts.
shareIt seems to me that you've missed the most powerful insight of the movie - that we must learn to love evildoers, despite the pain and suffering they cause.
Everyone is imperfect, we have all sinned. I argue that God is not nearly so concerned with the degree of our imperfections as we humans are. We get so caught up in how bad or good one person is compared to another. I believe He is infinitely more concerned with what we learn as a result of the pain we cause others, and that others cause us. He is much more concerned with who we become as a result of the experience.
Do we learn to forgive the wrongdoer? Do we learn to love, or do we turn to hate? The various characters in this movie had different reactions to the sins of Matthew Poncelet. Sister Prejean turned to love immediately. Other characters showed various shades of hatred and love. Matthew Poncelet hated himself, as many did and do, until the very end, when Sister Prejean's love convinced him to turn to love.
We all experience pain, and we shall all die. The manner in which we experience death and pain, I think, is not as much of a concern to God as it is to us. He is eternally concerned with the hatred and love inside our hearts.
The meaning of this movie is more than a political discussion on the death penalty. I see that it's showing us that in witnessing this man's crimes, we ourselves are being tested, to see if we will love him - despite the fact he's a sinner - as Sister Prejean loves him, as God loves him.
"learn to love evildoers"
I don't think so. No, many of us will continue to hate evildoers, until somebody gets their hands on those scumbags, and gives them what they deserve. When those pieces of garbage are gone, our hate can fade at once until we forget about them.
We don't want to accept and acknowledge the humanity of these monsters. We will defy any such acknowledgment, outright ignore their pleas for mercy, tear them apart, and sleep well afterward.
The film is not demonizing the death penalty, or praising it either. It shows both sides of the issue.
"Do we learn to forgive the wrongdoer?" What chutzpah you have, Smiddley103! Who gave you the right to "forgive" a wrongdoer who wronged someone other than yourself? What biblical justification can you cite for your apparent belief that anyone other than the victim of a wrongdoing has the right to forgive the wrongdoer? Each of the five books of the Torah, the bulk of the Christian bible, demands the death penalty for murder, the only wrong that rates such condemnation.
And nothing in the New Testament contradicts that. By committing murder, the murderer has eliminated any possibility of forgiveness. You claim that "we have all sinned", but even assuming that's true (have even infants sinned?), we have not all committed murder. From a religious point of view, we are taught not to "love" the murderer but rather to hate him, just as if he had murdered one of our own loved ones. To teach that one is required to love the murderer in the name of religion is to defame religion and bring it into disrepute.
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Perfect answer.....and I'm not even Christian.
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All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
/// because god allows us to////
Did you ask HIM?
Listen to your enemy, for God is talking
I'm giving God the benefit of the doubt that he has nothing to do with the death penalty OR why people are on the death row. It doesn't make sense, He causes innocent people to be slaughtered just so the people who slaughtered these innocent people can be themselves slaughtered? What kind of mixed up mess is that?
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He lifts me clear to the sky, you know he taught me to fly.
smiddley, I think your analysis is right on, 100%. It is easy to love the best of society. God tests us to see if we can love and forgive the worst, as Jesus did. I really pity these people who walk around with all this hate in their hearts, spending their days figuring out how to torture and kill others. That's the "punishers" here!
What about all the people who have been released from prison (and death row) who were later found to have been wrongly accused and convicted? Well over 100 people have been found to have been wrongly convicted and sentenced to death in the US, some after they had already been eXecuted. Whoops. How would you feel if that had been you? Or your sister, mother, brother, father?
People need to watch this movie again. And again if they still don't get it. And one more time if need be.
To each their own...opinion
This movie is not against the death penalty. It simply shows both sides. At the end when Poncelet is being executed, we are shown images of his crime again, as if to say "yep, this is why".
There doesn't have to be wrongly accused death row inmates. The death penalty can be used on the certainly guilty, and we all know there are certain criminals who are very obvious in their guilt. Again, the death penalty should NOT be used for each and every person convicted of murder, just the obvious ones. In some cases, guilt can be beyond a reasonable doubt, and in others, guilt can be without any doubt. Take each case on its own merit.
And stop defending these scumbags already. These are not oppressed freedom fighters. They all chose to cause great pain and harm to the innocent and their families, and misery to their own families. They chose their fate. They made the system do this to them. In effect, they did this to themselves.
macgirl66, you are entitled to your own opinion but not to your own facts. Your assertion that some people have been "wrongly convicted" and executed is without any factual basis, even putting aside that being "wrongly convicted" is not the same as "innocent." It is quite possible for one to be "wrongly convicted" for a murder one has really committed, e.g., on the basis of evidence that should not have been admitted for technical legal reasons. And what chutzpah you evince by asserting the right to forgive anyone who has wronged someone other than yourself. Murder is the only wrongdoing for which the death penalty is demanded by each and every one of the five books of the Torah, which comprises the bulk of the New Testament. By advocating the forgiveness of murder in the name of religion you defame religion and bring it into disrepute.
shareirvberg2002: You wanted facts on the wrongly convicted. Here they are:
http://www.innocenceproject.org/know/Browse-Profiles.php
To each their own...opinion
I said facts as to "the wrongly convicted and executed," not merely "wrongly convicted". In any event, I concede the possibility that someone may have been executed for a murder he did not in fact commit; that is inherent in any legal system administered by fallible human beings. So is the possibility, even the likelihood, that someone has been kept imprisoned for many years, even life, for a crime he did not commit. This is not a valid argument for doing away with either imprisonment or execution for criminal acts.
shareSorry, wrong chart.
http://madamenoire.com/73840/exonerated-after-execution-12-men-and-one-woman-found-innocent-after-being-put-to-death/
Take a look at this. But it is also good to note all the people who ended up exonerated before the state had a chance to put them to death, per the other link I posted. Now, don't get me wrong. People who commit violent crimes shouldn't just get a pat on the hand and not be punished. Quite the opposite. In fact, in MN, we have some of the most lax sentences for violent crimes. It seems I am always reading in the paper that someone was sentenced to his/her third vehicular homicide and they get 5 years. Or they are being sentenced for first degree rape and they get 3 1/2 years. Such is how it goes here. Then they are back out committing the same crime again. And then when you hear about the repeat offenders, they always seem to have gotten out way early on parole. So yes, the system (at least here in MN) is seriously broken. However, I don't see as killing them all is going to fix it.
macgirl66, the madamenoire website is a notorious apologia and advocate for murderers that is totally unreliable. Research the Larry Griffin case, the primary exhibit for madamenoire's claim of wrongful execution, on the deathpenaltyinfo.org website, which recites the facts found in court hearings about that case and which exposes madamenoire's claims as fictitious. You might also consider that one of the reasons for recidivism is that prison presents criminals with numerous amenities, including good food, first rate medical care, access to computers, exercise facilities, entertainment (including TV), etc. BTW, I'm not an advocate of capital punishment for any violent crime, only that of murder. The bible expresses its concept of proportionality in punishment in the phrase "an eye for an eye", which is commonly condemned by those soft on criminals as a barbarity; in fact it is a command for proportionality: you don't execute someone for stealing or even for the rape of a child. The justification for the death penalty for murder is not primarily that of deterrence; it is simply justice - the wrongful taking of a human life is the ultimate crime and it demands the ultimate penalty.
shareThere are other cases where guilt is in doubt.
David Spence: Two of the officers involved (the lead investigator and the supervisor) express doubts as to his guilt. The bite mark testimony used to convict him was unreliable. Multiple witnesses have implicated a man named Terry Harper, and quite a few of the snitches admitted they lied for special treatment.
Carlos DeLuna: Turns out that the "Carlos Hernandez" Prosecutors dismissed was not only real, but had boasted to his family members he had committed the crime. The brother of the victim believes that Hernandez was the one who committed the atrocity.
Leo Jones: The officer who extracted Jones Confession was found to have beaten other prisoners and 12 people pointed the finger at Glenn Schofield (who the victim had previously stopped from distributing drugs). Some of them were prisoners, some were friends. Either way the sheer number implies Schofield may well have been the shooter.
Robert Nelson Drew: Another man named Ernest Purlaweski admitted guilt to multiple people before and after pleading guilty. Had no reason to spare him since they barely knew each other. The witness recanted and than unrecanted due to pressure
BTW, I have consulted the website of the innocence project; it does not claim any actual execution of anyone subsequently exonerated. I have sent an email to the project asking if they are aware of any such case and sources for any.
sharemacgirl66, the innocence project had no information as to anyone executed for a crime of which he was subsequently exonerated. In the great comedy Kind Hearts and Coronets, the protagonist is convicted and sentenced to death for murdering a man who in fact committed suicide. If he had been executed, would you regard that as a miscarriage of justice despite the fact that he had committed numerous murders for which he was not apprehended or convicted?
shareThe Bible says: "you won't kill". Those people who condemn someone to the death penalty do kill. Those people are real sinners and even worse sinners because they kill in cold blood.
shareMikerinos2: First of all, the Bible does not proscribe killing. The commandment proscribes murder. Indeed the Bible, in this case, the Hebrew scriptures, which comprises the bulk of the Christian bible, demands the death penalty for murder in each and every one of the five books of the Torah (Genesis 9:6, Exodus 21:12, Leviticus 24:17, Numbers 35:16, 18, 21, Deuteronomy 19:11-12, 21.) No other wrong merits such treatment in the scriptures. Second, the court that sentences a murderer to death is not a murderer but rather enforces the law, which treats murder as the ultimate crime or sin. The Bible commands "an eye for an eye", which in metaphorical terms requires proportionality in punishing crime; for example, to require the amputation of the hand of a pickpocket would violate that principle. The death penalty for murder is a precise example of proportionality. To sentence a murderer to life (and especially to a term of less than life) is a violation of that principle. Please think about this a second time and provide a reasoned analysis of your conclusions or thoughts.
share"He causes innocent people to be slaughtered just so the people who slaughtered these innocent people can be themselves slaughtered? What kind of mixed up mess is that"
God works in mysterious ways, don't he?
Ms. Twit, you need not ask. Each and every one of the five books of the Torah, the bulk of the Christian scriptures, demands the death penalty for murder, the only crime that gets that degree of condemnation, and the New Testament nowhere contradicts that command. So, unless you have a personal revelation superseding scripture, recognize that the death penalty for murder is demanded by God.
shareWell well. And what do you think should have been done to Wade Michael Page, suppose as if he survived?
Listen to your enemy, for God is talking
Tried and if convicted of murder, sentenced to death and executed within eighteen months of sentencing. Now try and answer my question.
shareBut his life doesn't belong neither to you nor to the Authorities. How can you, simple and (I guess) sinful mortal, decide about the life or death of somebody? I, from my side, would give him 6 life sentences. It's a terrible punishment, have no doubt.
Listen to your enemy, for God is talking
Matthew Poncelet may have been sorry now for his deed. But was he sorry when he pulled the trigger on the boy? Was he sorry when he raped the girl? He made his own choice to participate in that crime. And so he reaped the consequences. He had ample opportunity to think about what he was about to do, then leave, without doing anything. But he didn't. And so it served him right. Saying a dangerous killer should not be executed is like saying a kidnapper is being held behind bars against his will. One must remember that he held his captives against their will. Instead of blaming the government, saying they have no business deciding who to kill, one ought to be blaming the criminals themselves for committing the crimes in the first place, thus forcing the government to deal with them.
shareI'm not a biblical expert. However, God's judgement and his mercy changed much from old to new testament. Things changed a lot after Jesus came (sorry, I am a Christian, so those that are of other faiths may only be familiar with their own texts). I can't quote all chapters/verses of new vs old testament (and I don't have time to do so), but when people would sin in the old testament, you who are familiar with the bible know how justice was meted out. It is a famous line, "An eye for an eye". This is also how God handed out judgement. When humans on Earth sinned, there was no forgiveness. There was wrath and punishment. After Jesus was born, lived and then died for everyone, we were granted the grace of God and we no longer were forced to be punished by God each time we displeased him. What Jesus taught us is that A) old testament laws went out the window, B) sins can be forgiven by the Grace of God and C) only God has the right to judge man. Please show me the passage in the bible where it says that man has the right to judge and execute his fellow man.
To each their own...opinion
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When it comes to death row inmates in the United States, even if there is OVERWHELMING evidence of their guilt, they are able to recieve so many stays of execution causing a lengthy interval between their conviction and execution.
That's an insult to society and to the victim and his/her survivors. The death penalty should be swift.
Religious Americans scare me more than any of Earth's extremists.
shareI feel zero empathy for murderers. I could personally look them dead in the eye and flip the switch myself. The problem I have with the death penalty is that it is enforced arbitrarily, costs too much, and has been shown to victimize the innocent.
To the world you may just be somebody, but to somebody you may just be the world.
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And it's only opposed by bleeding heart apologists and grandstanding moral frauds.
share