MovieChat Forums > Billy Madison (1995) Discussion > Terribly Terribly Anti-feminist

Terribly Terribly Anti-feminist

posted 16 years ago by RyanNanni
92 replies | jump to latest

A few days ago, I realized I had free HBO for the weekend. So as I looked through the schedule of upcoming movies (most of them botched from their original aspect ratio with the brilliant advent of pan & scan), I saw Billy Madison. "Oh, a classic" I thought to myself, recalling my enthusiastic proclamation for it as a child. If anything, it would be a fun movie to watch while I ate lunch this week. I hit record on my remote. Big mistake.

It was the most misogynistic *beep* I have seen in a long time! It was *beep* TERRIBLE, and I’m disgusted with myself for liking it as a child.

Okay, let's talk about that dumb twat, ugh, what was her name? VERONICA?? That was Billy's 3rd grade teacher. Let me paint a picture for you. Billy's on the bus. There's a 3rd grader behind him who says, "I dare you to touch her boobs." (???). So of course, he GROPES her on the bus. Okay, that's *beep* ridiculous. But she just like, LAUGHES IT OFF, and later says the words, "you're not the first person to try and touch my boobs." WTF?? If there is a girl who is okay with being GROPED, with the reasoning that it's NOT THE FIRST TIME let me know. I’d be interested in being proved wrong.

Even if you want to argue that she had a thing for him, what kind of pathetic lapse of human being is okay with being abused by another person, just because they’re interested in them?? The film goes on to the point where he eventually gets her. Typical anti-feminist *beep* that is constantly regurgitated in a disgusting pattern throughout our cinema.

The other part about her that really pisses me off, is the fact that she was a TOTAL BITCH to him at first. For no *beep* reason. Then, all of the sudden, she starts liking him (after the grope sequence). There was nothing to suggest he changed, it just showed her in love with him all of the sudden. The reason the film makers did this was to make it seem like it was actually an accomplishment for Billy to get her. Why is that?

Here's what the film makers were trying to do. Painting Billy as getting the perfect woman is part of their appeal system, and this particular films rhetorical power (if it even has any). They want you to struggle with Billy, and then be happy when he succeeds (gives ya that feel-good feeling down in your body that American audiences go *beep* bananas for). So to do this, they give you their “perfect woman”. Let’s list some characteristics of their model woman.

1. She’s attractive (All the time I might add)
2. She’s 100% accepting of Billy (GOD FORBID she disapprove of Billy’s lifestyle.)
3. She’s ready to put out!
4. She’s in Love with a man.

Okay, do I have to go in depth on why painting the perfect woman as attractive 100% of the time is detrimental? From when she’s in the swimming pool (for a second there, I thought I was watching soft-core porn), to when she’s teaching her third grade class (okay, I have nothing against women wanting to be attractive, no matter their line of work, but it’s unfair to say women have to be fully made up all the time. Ugh). Answer? No, I don’t have to go in full depth. Even the dumbest of *beep* can see why that’s *beep*

Second, she’s barely an individual!! Now you have the sequence where she kicks his ass in an effort to get him to go back to school (might I add that this is the scene where it’s in a pool. They make her look ridiculously sexy. God forbid we let women be powerful on their own merits, they have to be sexy to be powerful.) Okay, so she’s disagreeing with Billy there, but what about the subtle personality traits EVERYWHERE else. When she goes into his tent for the first time, she sees that he has porn taped to his bathroom wall (wtf??). She just kinda laughs it off. Like it’s no big deal, or better yet, she best not question him, because that’s his business. God forbid she be offended by the pictures of PORNOGRAPHY PLASTERED AGAINST HIS WALL. *beep* like that is ALL OVER the movie.

Third, they make the girl into an object of sex. Granted, she helps Billy with other things, but when it comes down to it, she’s most helpful as a piece of sex. When she goes into the tent, that’s the first thing they get to doing. And then later, she strips for him to get him to learn. Let me get this straight, his motivation is to see more of her naked. Hmmm… yeah, that’s not objectifying her. God forbid a woman not want to put out. Ugh, *beep* disgusting.

And the most important thing is, she’s in love with Billy. That’s why you like Billy and want to be him. It’s because he has a woman that’s in love with him. Ah, I love it when women are objectified to the point of being purely a symbol of status. :D

The anti-feminist rhetoric spewed all over this film really makes me want to puke my *beep* guts out. *induces vomiting* What’s worse is that the director, the writer, Adam Sandler himself, and every person who worked on this piece of trash didn’t even know they were propagating misogynistic *beep* What’s even WORSE is that the vast majority of movie goers, men and women, see absolutely no problem with what was going on. Mostly because they can’t recognize it! It’s just another subtle piece of manipulation issued by the combine to put women down.

“But leik it was just a movie to make you laugh lololol take a chill pill!!1”

What’s even more disgusting is that even though I just clearly outlined how that movie sucked, men AND women will defend it to the bone with arguments like “but it’s just entertainment” and “sometimes I like to watch a stupid movie” and “why do you have to analyze everything”.

WAKE UP

It’s the subtle acceptance of the *beep* in society that kills it.

So here are my easy steps to remedy the *beep*

1) Rewatch Billy Madison so you can see it sucks.
2) Burn it if you own it.
3) Spread the word that it sucks.

Godspeed.

[–] drewaf86 16 years ago

I was reading your post and about half way through I stopped, it is woman like you that make other chicks out there think that they are here to do more than sweep, cook, and sex. Let me go on the record and say that there are a few women in my life that I believe are better than this, my wife for one. I let her mow the back acre now with my riding mower because she did so good the last couple of years with the push.

My mom is also on the list because she birthed me, and I do believe that any woman that birthed me I should do some thing rather special for. So last summer I bought her a broom with a rubber padded handle to ease with the caulicles she gets from the wooden handle.

I'm surprised your husband let you on the internet so that you could type this, if you were a good wife you would keep too busy around the house to make time to spend at his computer or on his television watching movies.

I would love to go on but as you can see from getting no other post that men find it stupid to argue with a chick as most have less intelligence than a mule and wouldn’t bother with a reply. I have written this much because I am sitting at my computer waiting on my wife to finish her chores so she can pour my bath.

[–] gibsonflip 16 years ago

OMG HAHA I HOPE BOTH OF YOUR POSTS ARE JOKES

[–] rsbasketball_10 16 years ago

God, I really couldn't be stuffed reading all the posts on this board. Got half way through the first then just became sick of its bull sh!t. But then read the second and laughed my ass off.
Although I may not agree with all of it, it made such a better point then that first, idiotic post.

GOOD WORK MAN!

______________________________________
Bombing for peace is like f#@*ing for virginity.

[–] crisco_1492 16 years ago

No offence, but most comedy movies use standard stock characters such as Veronica. Think of the stock characters in this film.
1) Billy is the drunk, no-good son of a billionaire, who has never done a day's labour in his life. (Wouldn't that be anti-chauvinist?)
2) Carl is reeking of metrosexuality bordering on homosexuality. Why must a man in a suit be portrayed as such? (If you're wondering why I said "bordering on homosexuality, you have to wonder: wouldn't he be on the hit list for something? There's no proof that he came from that town, so it might not be from being in school with the gay guy.)
3) The gay guy (sorry, I don't remember his name): Wears lipstick, and has a noticeable lisp.
4) The kindergarden teacher: she seems to be permanently stuck on "Happy go-lucky," even when she's not in class with students.
5) Veronica: You pointed out the stereotypes already, so no point reitterating them here.

Yes, she is portrayed in a very backwards way. However, you can also interpret some of the things she does as being indicative of her character, and not completely anti-feminist.

"Okay, do I have to go in depth on why painting the perfect woman as attractive 100% of the time is detrimental? From when she’s in the swimming pool (for a second there, I thought I was watching soft-core porn), to when she’s teaching her third grade class (okay, I have nothing against women wanting to be attractive, no matter their line of work, but it’s unfair to say women have to be fully made up all the time. Ugh). Answer? No, I don’t have to go in full depth. Even the dumbest of *beep* can see why that’s *beep* "
- We never saw her in bed, nor did we see her after just getting up. It's quite possible that she takes pride in her appearence, especially since she's single and may be looking for a boyfriend. Who knows what she does after work? It's not shown.

"Second, she’s barely an individual!! Now you have the sequence where she kicks his ass in an effort to get him to go back to school (might I add that this is the scene where it’s in a pool. They make her look ridiculously sexy. God forbid we let women be powerful on their own merits, they have to be sexy to be powerful.) Okay, so she’s disagreeing with Billy there, but what about the subtle personality traits EVERYWHERE else. When she goes into his tent for the first time, she sees that he has porn taped to his bathroom wall (wtf??). She just kinda laughs it off. Like it’s no big deal, or better yet, she best not question him, because that’s his business. God forbid she be offended by the pictures of PORNOGRAPHY PLASTERED AGAINST HIS WALL. *beep* like that is ALL OVER the movie."
-When the movie was filmed, it was the early 90's. Porn was not very taboo among younger people, and still isn't. (Both Billy and Veronica struck me as being in their late 20's.) I know many women who watch porn, and aren't shy about admitting it either.
*Personal note: Yes, she didn't need to wear a white blouse during the pool-fight scene. However, we must note that she hadn't been planning on jumping in a pool with Billy when she went, and she usually wore white while teaching.

"Third, they make the girl into an object of sex. Granted, she helps Billy with other things, but when it comes down to it, she’s most helpful as a piece of sex. When she goes into the tent, that’s the first thing they get to doing. And then later, she strips for him to get him to learn. Let me get this straight, his motivation is to see more of her naked. Hmmm… yeah, that’s not objectifying her. God forbid a woman not want to put out. Ugh, *beep* disgusting. "
- Her stripping to convince him to learn is quite reasonable, considering the context. She and he are dating, plus they are alone in his tent. We already know that Billy has trouble focusing, and never has the proper initiative. Playing on his "Oversexed loser" stock character type, Veronica uses her body to give him the initiative to try and succeed. Foreplay + an educational experience. Works well for killing two birds with one stone. Also, you mentioned that she was extremely hostile towards him at the beginning of the film, but started loosening up after being groped. I've noticed that sometimes people are overly hostile with the ones that they "like" because they are too afraid to show how they feel, and don't want to be discovered. After finding out that he felt the same way too, she may have loosened up a bit. (Seeing Billy had a good heart didn't hurt much either.) *If she already liked him, in a fashion, that would also explain why she didn't make a big deal out of being groped.

"And the most important thing is, she’s in love with Billy. That’s why you like Billy and want to be him. It’s because he has a woman that’s in love with him. Ah, I love it when women are objectified to the point of being purely a symbol of status. :D"
- So, I take it that you've never been in love? People like Billy because he's an underdog, and shown to be a sympathetic loser. Billy would still have been a powerful character even without Veronica. True love has nothing to do with status. Besides, a truly happy ending is usually the most powerful in a comedy. One can't imagine Happy Gilmore missing his long-shot chip and losing the house to Shooter McGavin. It would be horribly anti-climatic.

Hopefully this sheds a new light on the events in Billy Madison.

[–] napthia9 16 years ago

I think the OP is responding to the unnecessary use of stereotypes rather than the existence of stock characters in general. Stock characters can be developed from their 'type;' they exist as a short-hand so that writers may quickly set-up a character or situation and develop it from there. Billy Madison is a stock character. (Lazy rich kid, lout with a heart-of-gold... Neither of these things are anti-men/male-chauvinist, by the way, since these traits are not assumed to stem from Billy's gender.)

In contrast, a stereotype does not develop. A stereotype is a broad generalization about a group of people. They are supposed to say "All Y people have X and Z!" As in "All Irish people have red hair and are alcoholics!" "All gay men like fashion and have lisps!" Since stereotypes don't develop, they promote harmful assumptions, and encourage audiences to think about people as types and not individuals. (They're also crap writing.) In short, a stereotype is a stock character without the ability to change or reveal unique traits. "The gay guy" is a stereotype. (Hell, look at how/what is memorable about him!)

The market (then and now) is glutted with female characters like Veronica who are stereotypical and male wish-fulfillment fodder. It is easy to rationalize these presentations as being "part of her character," part of the plot, or just intended for a male audience anyway. But that sort of rationalization ignores the question "Why are the vast majority of movies made this way in the first place?"

Sandler and TPTB chose to make a movie in which the female character was an obvious reward for the hero. They chose to create a very attractive female character who cares a lot about her appearance, is won over by a loser because he has a heart of gold, and who does nothing in the movie except nurture the male protagonist and realize she's he's true love just in time for the happy ending. Wow, what a coincidence- Veronica is in King of Queens, Happy Gilmore, nearly every movie Judd Apatow has produced, and countless other films and shows besides. And wow, 99% of all comedies with slackers, losers, or underdogs as the lead are about men. It's almost like there's a systemic prejudice against female characters who aren't appearance-oriented, nurturing passive props. Strange, that sounds like sexism.

About the most interesting thing going for Veronica is actually that she doesn't care about the porn or getting his chest pawed at. An automatic dislike of pornography is a stereotypically feminine trait that comes from a belief that women were morally superior to men, who needed women to change their baser (sexual) natures by being subservient and nurturing. Yet Veronica is still a morally superior, more responsible, nurturing figure; so her indifferent acceptance of mainstream pornography and boob-fondling seems more like wish-fulfillment than feminist statement.

"She was extremely hostile towards him at the beginning of the film, but started loosening up after being groped"
This statement is also extremely uncomfortable-making for me. It reeks of "but she really wanted it, Officer!" I think we all know why that's messed up. Veronica being interested in Billy doesn't change the fact that Billy randomly groped her with absolutely no knowledge of what she really felt. And this is the manner in which they both find true love? I have little patience with people who expect me to read their minds and absolutely none with those who expect they already know mine. Regardless of whether I want them or not. It's just a matter of respect (and a little bit of CYA).

The sexism and general stereotyping in Billy Madison just seems like lazy crap storytelling. It's totally unnecessary, generic, and could have been replaced by material that was actually funny instead of an obvious sop to the knuckleheads here who've assumed that OP was a woman and that "make me a sandwich" jokes were the height of comedy. Apologizing for it just seems like a waste of time anyway. What's the worst that could happen? Somebody writes an interesting female character? Adam Sandler stops making sexist movies? Yeah, that'd be terrible.

[–] cidandreevefangirl 16 years ago

Anti-feminist? Hmm ... I must have missed that part of the movie. I could have sworn it was a light comedy whose sole purpose was to make the audience laugh.

Pfft. It's morons like the OP that spread unesseccary discrimination. You're not "helping women" against sexism. You're portaying us as annoying, whiny bitches who need to stay in the kitchen. Get over yourself and just enjoy the *beep* movie!

[–] Gracefully_Slick 16 years ago

^Exactly what I was thinking.

Women like the OP are the ones making other women feel guilty about things like wanting to be/feel sexy.Just go shave your legs and put on a bra!

PS. Vaughn didnt just sit there and take it she embarassed Billy infront of the entire class

~Team Mahone For Life~

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] strummer2808 16 years ago

Grow up , didnt read known of that comment to long so ill put it in two words:
good film

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] sonicloud1982 16 years ago

An extreme feminist view on the movie isn't necessary here, and is possibly the whole reason why this classic comedy movie actually has a 6.2, the opposite demographic has blown in and distorted the rating beyond repair. It's really a shame that these types of movie reviewers can't get over their insecurities, if you don't fit the demographic, then don't bother reviewing it.

Edit:
Besides, you're a 16 year old male.
You're either trolling or a fool.

[–] Aimless_Small_Potatoes 16 years ago

So of course, he GROPES her on the bus

Were you watching some sort of parody porn? He bumps into her and his arm grazes her boob. There is no groping.

Let me get this straight, his motivation is to see more of her naked. Hmmm… yeah, that’s not objectifying her

You act as though its unusual for a man to want to see a woman naked. Its a natural thing. Women want to see men naked too. There is nothing wrong with that.

but it’s unfair to say women have to be fully made up all the time

No one said that women HAVE to be fully made up all the time. Some people just like how they look with it. I wear makeup to work every day. I don't NEED to wear makeup but I think I look good with makeup and why is it a bad thing to want to look good? I have friends who are teachers and they don't go to work with unwashed hair and pale lips.

she sees that he has porn taped to his bathroom wall (wtf??). She just kinda laughs it off. Like it’s no big deal

Uh...its not a big deal to a lot of people. Porn isn't just for men. Its not as if they lived together and he taped up pictures in their shared bathroom. He was a single GUY living in a tent in his front yard.

-
Yeah-I'm almost 30 & have a myspace. So sue me.http://www.myspace.com/foxyfoxycleo

[–] dmahnarch 16 years ago

The OP said: "Some words..."

Wow. Someone got to you...
Either a loser guy or some leftist, liberal, whale saving, man-hater.

ErikaBluth said:

Women want to see men naked too. There is nothing wrong with that.

I have to disagree, on opinion.
Like Elaine said: "A woman's body is like a work of art. A man's body is just utilitarian. It's for getting around."

When I look at myself nakkers, I don't see the appeal - and I"m a 5' 10", 150lb, well built guy in his thirties. [ Ninja edit: Actually, just 30.]

When it's cold I just hang there like a stack of buttons and no really attractive curves.
Plus, my collar bones and shoulder joints meet up and make 'spikes', making me look like I'm wearing some sort of battle armor under a tight shirt - so I don't wear tight shirts very often.

On the other end of the spectrum, you've got guys with hair galore ["Holy Crap! A gorilla just came out of no where!"] and guys who can't ride in a row boat without sinking it.

"Any last words, Punk?"
"Yeah. You're wife is good in bed."
"Oh. So you're a liar, too?"

[–] Aimless_Small_Potatoes 16 years ago

Ha ha Actually, I sort of agree with you. I'm a woman and I definitely think women look better naked than men. However - my point was that women look at men sexually too...I like seeing my man without a shirt on - that doesn't mean I think of him as a sex object.

There is nothing wrong with looking at someone's body - whether it be naked or not.

-
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0856288/ Possibly the best horror film I've ever seen!

[–] hobokombat 16 years ago

I enjoy getting angry while watching fictitious, comedic entertainment as well.

[–] coolcherrycreem 16 years ago

Look at the big picture...there was not a signal character in this movie who was not an obnoxious ass! That's the point. It's a dumb silly movie that I find very funny.

[–] shotgunwedding 16 years ago

well i don't know what you're complaining about actually. it would be very stereotypical for her to gasp and slap him across the face if he groped her.

[–] Genesgirl 16 years ago

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

"The time to make up your mind about people is never."

[–] coolcherrycreem 16 years ago

hahaha :) right on

[–] mmd83 16 years ago

you're a vagina

[–] joystick12 16 years ago

Hahahaha, nice one Toby. Took me till about the third sentence to figure it out.

--------
"Eggiwegs! I want to... Smash them!"

[–] kytosanman 9 years ago

Lol perfect post!

[–] gcarras (2727) 7 years ago

On the board it says last message here was 27 mins. ago but it seems to have been gone but my two cents:
I've enjoyed it..since its 1995 opening..Veronica Vaughn (Adam certainly loved "V" name girls) is HOT! "Penguin, stop looking.."(subject of his own thread..Adam is so drunk he is seeing things..) Veronica:"They look like R's to me"(what she wrote, spoirts star Rizzuto, on the chlak board as part of the spelling..) Billy:More like BORE o phil (chlorophil)