Why was P.L. really upset?


Why do you think Alan's character P.L. was upset at the end of the film? I don't know if it's because he realized that he was having sex with his own child, or if it's because of what Stella's Uncle told him of her more or less abused childhood,(neglectful Mother, missing Father-- him) or if it's because it turned out that he had a daughter, and not the son he always thought he had. Did P.L. reveal to Uncle Vernon that he was Stella's father, or did he go to his death with no one ever knowing the truth but him? What do you all think, and WHY?

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I always thought it was fairly obvious both from his reaction and what he says before he leaves the house. When the picture is turned round he realises that Stella's mother was the woman he had been trying to find and that the child he had fathered, who she was holding in the photo was the girl he had been having sex with.

http://www.flixster.com/user/dragon041964

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It seemed he was more upset that he didn't have a son, than the fact that he had been having sex with his own daughter.

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I have to say I didn't feel that, yes he had thought the child he fathered had been a son, but I am not sure if we are ever told why he thinks that. Perhaps that is what Stella had told him in a letter while he was away. Perhaps he was disappointed to some extent but I wouldn't say that he was upset because he didn't have a son, I really think it was as simple as him being upset because he realised who the young girl he was sleeping with was.

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The notion that he could have been so upset at not having a son, that he killed himself, is very very silly immature Stella-type thinking!

What would drive a man to absolute despair?
The knowledge that he had been in bed with his own daughter ... by mistake.

But it went even further than just self-loathing.

The rest of the problem is that he has a daughtet who is "just like her mother".
She has used him, as a man, for her own purpose, and with no love for him whatsoever.

The reason why, even at the end, he is thinking about the fact that "he thought he had a son" is not because he's disappointed at her gender. It's because if he KNEW he had a daughter, then he would have been looking for his daughter, and he wouldn't have gone to bed with Stella, just in case she WAS his daughter. So, in a sort of way, he KNEW that she wasn't his child, but he was wrong.

Once he knows that she IS his daughter, then that is the end. He only has one type of relationship with her, and that is sex. He can't make another sort of relationship with her, because Stella isn't good at relationships. She doesn't know how to love or care for anyone.

It's a terrible shock to him, because, although he had sex with a 16 yr old who just opened her legs and asked him to do it, he's not an immoral man.

We also know that although he has had other women in his life, he has never gotten over her mother and is still wondering about her, all those years later. So his horrible mistake just combines with all his sadness and loss over the mother.





"great minds think differently"

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Exactly, which is the point I did try (not so eloquently) to put across to the OP. Thanks for putting it across better than I did

http://www.flixster.com/user/dragon041964

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I still remember the shock I got when that particular twist was revealed, who Stella really was. It stayed with me a long time after seeing the film.

-d-

"Fasten your seat belts, it's going to be a bumpy night" (Margo Channing in All About Eve)

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I felt like my heart had sunk when I saw that.

A lie is a lie... unless your friends and family are in on it. Then it's a "commonly held belief."

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Wow, it was pretty obvious to me from the beginning that she was his daughter - there were too many clues. That's why I found the movie so disturbing...

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Agreed phillyspice, there were so many clues early on - basically the fact her mother was an actress and had been working in Liverpool at the same time PL 'Got a local girl in trouble and scarpered'. And the fact PL says 'I know her', when they've just met.

Oh and the little clue that Captain Hook is always played by the same actor who plays the children's father, in pantomime...

It is a disturbing film, but compelling.

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"Stella isn't good at relationships. She doesn't know how to love or care for anyone."

Whoa. Big leap of logic. Not sure how you got there. If you're just basing it on the fact that she has sex without caring about this particular man, than your logic is flawed. Or was there some other hint that I missed?

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I don't think he killed himself, I think he was so upset and distraught that he wasn't paying attention, and his carelessness caused him to slip and hit his head, falling into the water and drowning.

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He's upset because he's been unknowingly sleeping with his own daughter, I don't think he's disappointed that he did not have a son, at all. If you take the lines he speaks to Renee's photo as a whole rather than as single/individual lines it's more clear. If it still seems like 'I had a son' is the issue, then replace 'son' with 'child' (and mentally fill in the words between that are implied but not said) and it's a bit more clear what the whole thought actually is.

So - "There have been times...there were times I was close to death. I knew it...felt it. And, what I thought [when facing death] was, I have a son [child], and [if I die] it will not be the end of me [because I will live on through my child]. But it [my child] is [the end of me]. [And] I may not face it as well as I did death."

Or in other words, during the war when he was in mortal danger, his child (regardless of gender) represented, to him, his life going on even if he was killed. Now, after realizing that Stella was his daughter, his child has actually become 'the end of him', because he can't live with knowing what he's done. He has in a way died inside as a result even though he is still living (at that moment in time), and his child was in fact the instrument of that 'death'. (I also tend to agree that his later physical death wasn't intentional suicide, but do think it was somewhat passively so - he was a naval officer and thus should have gone through water survival training [be able to swim] and he's aware enough to have a vision of her while in the water, but isn't trying to save himself at that point).

I think the only reason that it matters that he says 'son' vs. 'child' is just to re-emphasize to the audience (as someone else already pointed out) that he had no reason to suspect that Stella was his own daughter, despite the telling clues like her resemblance to her mother ('I know her...') and even her name (her mother had used Stella Maris as a pseudonym). Even if all he had known was that he'd had 'a child' but not whether it was boy or girl, he still probably would have been a bit more wary of Stella's parentage and tried to find out more about her before going to bed with her. The fact that he had believed he'd had a son (vs. 'a child') is why he didn't suspect it in spite of the clues that were there, and I think that's all they're trying to get across by him saying he had a son.

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