MovieChat Forums > Star Trek: Voyager (1995) Discussion > why was the series sub-par when it had t...

why was the series sub-par when it had the potential


to be much better than what it was? It had the Maquis and they crew were really far from home. And yet the show was quite weak

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That's a matter of opinion. I like all the series and can make an argument on why each series is the best of the bunch. Of all the series I think Voyager has more of my favorite episodes. I also find Voyager the easiest and most pleasant to rewatch.

I've watched every episode of every series at least 5 times (closer to 10 for TOS) except the cartoon series which I only went through twice. I went to my first convention in the 70s. If I had to pick a favorite DS9 and Voyager would tie for the top.



No Sitcoms! No Sports! No Reality! Death to the new timeline.

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IMHO this show was almost the best of the bunch! It was unique and had some great episodes that didn't rely on TOS. And the last two shows made up a great finale, my favorite and I was a fanatic for TNG! I even enjoyed Enterprise because it explained all the terms we were used to hearing in the other shows for example the origen of M- Class planet. I also I liked the temporal aspect of the show. Anyway, I'm glad Voyager has been picked up by BBC America and all the shows are on Heroes and Icons.
I'm glad I got a chance to share my opinion before they closed up Messages!

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My favorites are TNG and Voyager. DS9 didn't like, Enterprise also. The original is so cheesy to me. Voyager is unique cause it didn't bring in the typical villains the other star trek shows dealt with. Also, it was in the delta section. TNG created the most scariest villain the Borg, but Voyager up it with Species 8472.

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Agree. Wanted so much to like DS9, but Sisko was so poor compared to Janeway and Picard that it ruined it for me, even with the more interesting story arc. Voyager was great because of the premise - lost in space. Janeway was a great captain and I loved the doctor!

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Just been rewatching all the treks on H&I.

Gaah! Voyager has the most eye-rolling episodes since TOS season 3. If I had a dime for every time some individual managed to escape, or steal a shuttlecraft, by transferring ship control to some isolated station, overriding protocols, and modifying shield harmonics (Geez, how could such a sophisticated ship have no effective lockouts?); during its seven year run, I think every major cast member did it, including the holographic doctor! The show would consistently play fast and loose with time travel, overuse the holodeck for story material, and constantly pulled technological BS out of its rear to save itself. The characters, at various times, were bland, saccharine sweet, irritating, or self-righteous.
I always found Voyager to be a comfy show, with its predictable happy endings, ramifications that lack real impact, deaths that don't last, worth watching before bedtime. Pleasant but, ultimately, not as bold as its concept allowed; Enterprise's 'Expanse' season actually did it better.

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You could be talking about any post TOS flavour of Star Trek.

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TNG had some ideas and interesting ideas it played with. It also had ramifications that lasted. It did have more philosophy and ethical dilemmas, as well as imaginative stories and immersive thought experiments.

Your comment couldn't be less true if you tried.

TOS was nothing but a 'horror show', where each episode, the crew had to go through some nightmare scenario. It's not a true space adventure show.

TNG's weakness was that it NEVER followed its mission, it never tried to seek out new lifeforms, but it was always trying to stop some asteroid from colliding with a planet, a moon's orbit from deteriorating, some tormented planet get its medicine, and so on and so forth. But it was much better than pretty much any other attempt at Star Trekking, except maybe the movies II and IV.

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The problem was that it couldn't commit to its own premise of having Maquis crew and being stuck far from home. The Maquis crew just turn into clones of starfleet officers after like three episodes and don't behave any differently from the starfleet crew for the vast majority of the series. The crew TALKS about being low on supplies etc., but they never have any trouble repairing damage...how many times does the ship get half-destroyed in battles and then is fine in the next episode? They talk about using a real kitchen to save energy, but then the crew is always replicating stuff that they don't need, playing on the holodeck, etc...they don't seem like they're rationing anything or act concerned about running low on supplies/energy/whatever. The crew never acts like they're REALLY upset about having their lives ruined by being stranded, they say a few lines about wanting to get home but then just shrug and act like they're on any other starfleet ship on routine patrol in the alpha quadrant. Basically, the show wastes the cool premise by ignoring it.

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Exactly.

My main gripe was the last point about them not really believing it. They act like they'll be home by Tuesday. They should have paired up more, had kids, left the ship, encouraged aliens to join their crew. Basically anything that reminded us that this journey would take a lifetime.

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I think it's interesting that the only character I can recall from the entire series that seems really, genuinely upset about being stuck in the delta quadrant is the angry dude from that "Good Shepherd" episode. He has a simmering outrage about the situation that seems very realistic and totally understandable, but the episode clearly intends for him to seem unreasonable and in need of being "fixed."

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Well, they did have Kes, Neelix and Seven join, plus the Borg kiddies for a few episodes.

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You're right. I'm a huge Voyager fan, but one of my biggest gripes with the series was the weekly "reset". There was rarely a sense about how they were progressing toward getting home.

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The show ignored the Dominion War and the total destruction of the Maquis--by Dominion & Cardassian forces, which took it out of perspective. The Maquis crew on Voyager did not spend enough time talking about what happened back in the Alpha Quadrant.

The externals of the ship did not look worn down as the seasons progressed, in fact the ship looked like it left Starfleet Drydock every few episodes. The very idea that Holodecks would always be powered and used while they had to ration food replicators is beyond ridiculous. The very idea that Holodeck had a power supply that was incompatible with the rest of the ship was ridiculous and contradicts holodeck issues in The Next Generation.

Not enough anxiety from the crew in being flung to the far side of our galaxy. I feel the writers of Battlestar Galactica reimagined would have done an excellent job giving characters better depth and well, character.

The final episode sucked because the moment that Voyager entered Federation Space, the series ended. We wanted to see the crew we had loved for 7 years reunite with their families, have Captain Janeway debriefed and promoted to Vice Admiral as a result, and see how the former Maquis would fit in a Federation where their Maquis brethren had all been wiped out--and of course, getting to see the Aftermath of the Dominion War that caused hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives.

And it would have also been paramount for Janeway to brief the Federation on the advanced races of the Delta Quadrant, especially Species 8472 and the Borg--and that the Borg has a massive amount of territory in Delta. Just because another queen was dealt with, does not mean the threat is over--in fact the threat would have been greater than ever before now.

So much potential, instead Voyager pops into Federation Space and the credits roll. Sigh.

Then we get all these prequel Star Trek series that deal with before Kirks time. We don't want that. We want 24th & 25th Century ST.

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I agree with most of your comments, especially the lameness of the final episode. I would have loved to see Lt. Barclay get to meet the crew in person after working so hard to help them and risking his job. We should have gotten to see all of the crew get their due recognition and learn a little about where they were headed next.

I give them a pass on the holodeck thing because it's such a great story device and I can see why they wanted to have it available.

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IMHO the short answer is that the writers weren't willing to think big or take risks. They weren't willing to have the Maquis people plot to take over the ship, to have Tuvok and Janeway have a friendship-ending conflict or have Belanna and Paris have a nasty divorce, to have the straight male crew members trying to get humanoid women from planets to move onto the ship and be their babymommas, etc. There just wasn't any interesting interplay between the main characters, with or without Seven. They all stayed dutiful and ethical, in a way that wasn't really believable under the circumstances.

And I LOVED the finale, BTW, I think it's so freaking good that it redeemed the whole series in retrospect. Somewhat redeemed, anyway.

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I saw this on TV ages ago, but can't remember more than 'what an annoying squaky voice that weirdly female captain has'.

I have nothing against female captains per se, but they're like female bosses, female bus and taxi drivers, or female programmers; you just KNOW that even if they are doing a good job with their monthly 'mood' and 'baby rabies' and sexual disruption of every heterosexual male in the vicinity, there's always going to be a man out there that would do that job better.

It's just a biological fact that male and female brains are different, so they're organically and naturally suited better for specific tasks than each other. Women are absolute best when it comes to raisin children or adjusting to repetitive tasks, men are best at leadership, exploration, domination (dominance?), etc. A man can easily show dominance over other men, females, kids, dogs, you name it.

Women rather try to talk softly and 'cutesify' to gain control, and then wonder why it doesn't work (majority of bad dog owners, for example, in the old TV shows 'Dog Whisperer' and 'Cesar 911' are women, and listen to how EVERY SINGLE WOMAN talks how funny and quirky it is that she happens to think her dog as 'her baby' or 'her son/daugher' or 'little human' - women have an INSTINCT to baby everything that's 'cute', they can't help it - men have no such instinct).

Anyway, as I didn't remember anything more than that, I thought I'd give it a re-watch when I had the opportunity to stumle upon some episodes.

So far I haven't watched many, but this is what I picked up:

- Boring. Really, really boring. Nothing is interesting or exciting, just lots of..
- Talking. So much talking, TNG doesn't even hold a candle to how much people drone on in this show. Most of it being useless or technobabble.
- Darkness - who turned off the lights? What happened to the pleasant, elevating cheerful, well-lit starships? Are they at war? TNG only used this kind of aesthetic to depict a desperate situation.

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- The 'Spock' is really monotonous, soulless, charisma-less, has no 'wit' even if he's intelligent, has no sarcastic quips, is not sharp-tongued, like Spock - can't even be compared. I'd rather not watch this version of Spock at all. Nimoy must've been a genius, if other actors fall THIS short.
- There are CONFLICTS between the crew! WHAT? This wasn't supposed to be allowed, why are they doing this? Now I see why Roddenberry forbade it; it feels awkward, cringy and annoying - you don't know whose side to take, so each conflict makes you just feel you could skip the whole scene - and hey, I can! It's basically just two (or more) actors arguing and yelling about something the viewer JUST DOESN'T CARE.
- Shaky cam. SO much shaky cam. In TNG, I never noticed it as some kind of overused gimmick, because they used it sparingly. Every time the camera shakes ( = the ship is hit by something), it's INTENSE, dangerous, and IMPORTANT! It makes you pay attention and glue yourself to the screen (figuratively speaking). Not so in Voyager, where 50% of every single episode seems to be this shaky cam, where people still calmly talk to each other. It doesn't make sense, it's WAY overused, so it becomes BORING and annoying rather than anything else.
- Time travel makes no sense. I watched the episode where Seven of Nine is recruited to travel in time, and all I got out of it was that it had a 'shocking twist' and everything's back to normal by the end. The rest is just a boring, convoluted, prolonged mess that's just not interesting.

It takes talent to ruin something as fundamentally interesting as time travel.

- The effects are boring and the ship has to physically move its engines to travel at warp speed. Why? Also, if you're going to make something physical happen, does it have to be this lackluster and boring? Why can't the ship transform completely or at least make the engines stand up fully? Just SLIGHT TURN every time is just ridiculous, unnecessary, boring = BAD IDEA!

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It's almost as if someone decided to take the most overused clichés, the most BORING bits, and make a show out of them and then just add AS MUCH TALKING AS POSSIBLE into the mix.

- None of the characters are particularly sympathetic. I like the doctor actor, but a 'sentient hologram' that gets annoyed, etc. is just illogical and doesn't make sense. Why would anyone create such a thing, EVEN IF it was possible (it's possible only to a certain degree, not actually all the way to 'true sentience')? Shouldn't the doc be effective, not have emotions that cloud its judgment, etc.? WHY WOULD THEY PROGRAM IT TO BE ABLE TO BE ANNOYED?!

What I am saying, even that likable actor just isn't likable character in this show, I don't like the doctor. Why make a doc bald anyway, if you have the choice? It's a hologram, it should be fully customizable, so it could basically look different every time, the patient could have a say in what it looks like, and so on. If I want my hologram to look like a mixture between Hello Kitty and Kizuna Ai, why do I have to look at some bald middle-aged, grumpy and wrinkly, depressing face? Why couldn't I customize it? It's a hologram, what difference does it make what it looks like, except that it would be better for HEALING, if it looks inspiring, pleasant, beautiful, exactly the way I want.

That's why people bring flowers to patients, so they can look at something inspirationally beautiful and thus heal better. Why abandon that principle here?

(Of course these people bring DYING flowers to patients, which defeats the purpose, as those flowers will try to drain energy from the patient, thus making them sicker)

- The musics, soundtracks, etc. are really bland and get on my nerves - everything is slow and shall I say it again? BORING. Even the title music has NO ENERGY whatsoever. Why would they do this to something that's supposed to be an EXCITING JOURNEY THROUGH SPACE? Listen to the old TOS or TNG soundtracks, VERY energetic+exciting!

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- The background sounds are WAY below par, TNG has more interesting background aural world. This show is as stock and generic as possible, rarely do I hear anything interesting or unique in there, with TNG, I was always thinking 'I wonder how they did that sound'. Not so with this show.

- The stories are either rehashed (even the Q episodes) old ones from other shows, or uninteresting and bland, or so convoluted and told in such boring, slow manner, it's hard to keep yourself awake. Where are the quirky, interesting, experimental stories? Where's the danger? Everything just resets.

- The overusage of 'Borg' and 'Seven of Nine' and so on. The same tropes over and over. Re-writing Borg until you don't recognize it anymore. Come on, Borg would never run away from an enemy, and it was never explained why that 'scorpion' race was able to kill Borg or defeat them. Why couldn't they be assimilated?

- The 'aliens' look SO stock, clichéic, naked and stupid. It's like they took the cheapest, oldest, most naked designs from the cheapest effects guy they could find, and just used them as-is. Who the heck designed the 'scorpions' race, the producer's grandson for his first attempt at 3D modeling? WHY ARE THEY ALWAYS NAKED?!

I was watching that 'scorpions' episode, ANTICIPATING something really cool, nice, believable, interesting - in my mind, I was going through all kinds of interesting designs, like the 'Vorlons' in Babylon 5, the more weird-looking things in TNG, the rock monster in Galaxy Quest, and so on. Oh boy, we're gonna get something amazing, because after all, this was made WAY after TNG, and this ... WHAT THE !@%!* IS THAT?!

I instinctively slammed my head against my palm and slapped my forehead while rolling my eyes and groaning while screaming "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" in my head.

WHAT the F were they thinking?!

But as I said, I have only watched a few episodes so far, maybe around 7 - so perhaps it will get better, I plan to give it a chance.

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You are a strange, sad, little man.

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The first season and about half the second are legit good sci-fi. It suffered from the long seasons. Today it would be a 10 episodes/season show much better for it.
edit, typo

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Best to go with quality over quantity.

Voyager could've been a four season show or as you a 10 episode per season show.

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The writers didn't intend for the show to go through any majors changes or any arcs or grow as a story, Voyager is the most static of all Trek shows.

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